desiguy

Just got an 04 Enth. MT this past weekend. I am still learning to drive a stick shift and wanted to get some opinions on technique. Do you guys downshift when you slow down, throw the car into neutral and slow down, or brake? I've heard that downshifting can wear out the clutch quicker and braking is better, since brakes are cheaper to change later on. Also, at what rpms do you usually shift at? I've been shifting at 3,000 for fuel econcomy...

Thoughts?

s0nz

it would cause some problems if u just threw it into a lower gear and let off the clutch. what i reccomend is rev matching when ur throwing it into the lower gear....


3k?? granny shifter! Jk..i usually shift around 2500 to 3k also...

s0nz

BTW, nice sunset Z, and nice 5 series...

desiguy

haha, yea with gas prices these days in ny, u gotta do what u gotta do...lol. gotcha about the downshifting...but what exactly is rev matching??

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

I suggest that you get very comfortable with normal driving where you simply brake to slow down. While you're upshifting, pay attention to the drop in RPM between gears. Once the motions of upshifting are thoroughly natural for you, then you can start practicing downshifting. It's not a necessity that you DS when slowing down, but it isn't bad for your drivetrain either. Rev-matching will allow the clutch to seamlessy engage with no wear to anything except the throwout bearing. It does take some practice though, and you'll certainly jerk the car around while you're learning. It's fun learning though!!!!

Good Luck.

jfranci3

Start learning to upshift right (shift smoothly, making sure the tach doesn't jump in either direction as you let out the clutch). Once you're comfortable with that, then start practicing downshifting. I'd give it a few months though.

To downshift (stopping) - Apply brake, as the revs start falling, push in the clutch, pull the gear lever to N, blip the throttle with the other side of your braking foot (I like to go right side of the foot gas, left brake - some people like to brake with their forefoot, gas w/ the heel), pull the lever into the desired gear, let out the clutch. The shift should be smooth and the tach shouldn't suddenly move.

Downshifting (for acceling) - Push in the clutch, slide the gear lever to N, blip the throttle, slide it into gear, let out the clutch.

For right now, as you come to a stop - push in the clutch, move the lever to N, let out the clutch and brake.

desiguy

thanks guys for your replies....ive been upshifting moderately well...but practice is key!

Reggi914

iTrader: (3)

where in ny do you live

foochdawg

iTrader: (1)

So you have to rev match when you down shift to accelerate? This will be my first stick and I want to screw up as little as possible lol. So you are saying that when you want to downshift, you:

1.) Push in the clutch .
2.) blip the throttle so that the RPMs are where they WOULD be if you were going that fast in the lower gear.
3.) shift into gear
4.) let off clutch and go

How can you get the revs matched? I mean you rev an engine and the rpms drop pretty quick. How do you get it to be where it should be? Or doesn't it matter since you are using the clutch? It will just make it LESS of a hard transition because the engine will be CLOSER to the speed of the tranny but not EXACTLY?

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

It's an art as much as it is a science. The "how do you do it" is just like asking a concert pianist how they hit every key with 100% accuracy.....Practice, practice practice.

The process (if you want to do it properly) is as follows:
1. Begin braking and engage clutch as normal
2. Shift to neutral
3. Let the clutch out
4. While still applying brake pressure, blip the gas
5. Push the clutch in
6. Downshift to lower gear
7. Let the clutch out quickly

It sounds strange, but yes, every downshift is two engagements of the clutch. The reason for this is because if you don't blip the gas while the gearbox is in neutral and the clutch released, you don't line up the speed of the input shaft of the transmission with the higher engine speed, thus forcing the syncros to do it. This will cause accelerated wear to the syncros (and God knows this particular car can't afford that).

Note in step 7 that the clutch is let out quickly. This is so that the freewheeling input shaft of the transmission, the Engine and the output shaft of the transmission don't have time to "mis-align". When done properly, there should be no noticeable jerkiness.

Also note that the brakes are applied during this entire process using either the toes of the right foot (not likely in this or any other street car) or the outside of the right foot to blip the gas while the heel (again, not likely) or the ball of the right foot applies brake pressure.

Watching the feet of a race car driver is like watching a little dance. It's pretty cool, and it takes a ton of practice.

foochdawg

iTrader: (1)

If you are shifting, to say pass someone, why do you hit the brake? I mean can't you just push in the clutch(disengage), blip the gas, shift, and release clutch(engage)? Why do you have to be braking? Please encuse my ignorance but I am new to this and jsut want to learn all I can.

ttsupra94

iTrader: (1)

I downshift sometimes. Depends where i'm driving. I DS a lot when i know i'm slowing down but i wont have to come to a complete stop. Most of the time though, i just put it in N and brake.

My normal shifting sequence
1st
2nd- 8-10mph
3rd- 15
4th- 20
5th- 30
6th- 40

christurismohk

iTrader: (2)

u dont need to brake to DS and pass a car assuming u need more power

kcobean

iTrader: (2)

In a situation like that, you would not brake, you'd just:

1. Shift to neutral
2. Let the clutch out
3. Blip gas
4. Clutch in
5. shift to lower gear
6. Let clutch out quickly,
7. Introduce gas pedal to floor mat

And do this all in about .5 seconds, literally.

The braking only comes into play when you are slowing down for a turn and are trying to get into the right gear/power-band to enter the turn.

The Brickyard Rat

iTrader: (1)

One note of caution in the downshifting process: it is very easy to hit 2nd gear when your trying for 4th.

Get a good feel of where 2nd & 4th are.

Question for the tech guys: will the rev limiter save one from over reving the tranny if 2nd, instead of 4th, is hit?

marhot

This technique is better known as “double clutching”.

Kcobean is correct, it is an art. But is the only way to fully enjoy a manual transmission. Once you learn it will find yourself double-clutching all downshifts and will down shift more often just for fun.

You also double clutch for acceleration.

1. Engage clutch as normal
2. Shift to neutral
3. Let the clutch out
4. Blip the gas
5. Push the clutch in
6. Downshift to lower gear
7. Let the clutch out quickly, simultaneous gassing it.

Enjoy!

marhot

Oops, you beat me! Seems I was typing while you were posting
Great minds think alike.

foochdawg

iTrader: (1)

Ok, ok. I think I got this now lol. So:
1.)you push in the clutch(disengage) so that you can put it into neautral
2.)Once you are in neutral you let off the clutch(engage) so that the tranny and engine ar combined again
3.) You blip the throttle to get the tranny side of the clutch spinning faster
4.) you then press in the clutch(disengage) and put it in the proper, lower gear and let off the clutch quickly so that the tranny side is still spinning the higher speed when it engages with the engine and it matches it's speed.

That seem close? In the ball park? lol

MadMax76

How much do you wear the synchros if you don't double-clutch?

foochdawg

iTrader: (1)

I was also wondering this. The average driver doesn't drive like this do they? I mean say I just enjoy cruising around with the occasional show of speed. It is going to be detrimental if I don't "double clutch"? Is the only benefeit to this for track use? And maybe making the tranny last an extra few months?