370z has overheating issues on road courses
02-02-2009, 06:27 PM
#21
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This is what I'm thinking. A single cooler set up for NA cars and a dual cooler for TT cars. Trying to use one large cooler may not work as well due to front mount on a TT car, so having one oil cooler on each side could be the answer. Plus it would increase oil system capacity by a quart or more which is a good thing in it's own right.
or maybe two in the rear bumper on each side might be good.
a bigger radiator with water wetter could help too, not to mention a ducted hood and fenders to get rid of some heat.
02-03-2009, 07:22 AM
#23
--In theory, yes. But I don't know if there is enough market for anyone to develop a SMIC set up for the 370Z. It would be an expensive project that probably wouldn't sell enough to justify.
or maybe two in the rear bumper on each side might be good.
--Way too much plumbing. That would require running oil lines all the way to the rear of the car and back adding 15-20 feet of lines to the system which would make life hell for the oil pump. Not to mention air flow at the rear of the car be less than it would be in the front grill area.
a bigger radiator with water wetter could help too, not to mention a ducted hood and fenders to get rid of some heat
--This would certainly help with coolant temp although coolant temp and oil temp often don't correspond with each other real well. I've seen engines with 190 degree coolant temp and 270 degree oil temp, which is not a good sign. We're planning on developing a radiator right away for the 370Z to help with coolant temp issues, and yes, Water Wetter is the sh*t. I've been a supporter and user of that stuff for over ten years.
02-03-2009, 09:00 AM
#24
I would recommend DEI radiator relief. It works better than Water Wetter.
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...5&autoview=sku
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCeXwAA95oY Part 1 vs water wetter
Also Nissan Sport Magazine had a article on DEI a while back.
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...5&autoview=sku
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCeXwAA95oY Part 1 vs water wetter
Also Nissan Sport Magazine had a article on DEI a while back.
Last edited by SOLO-350Z; 02-03-2009 at 10:13 AM.
02-03-2009, 11:12 AM
#26
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IS it me or this a big turn off? i was going to buy this years 370z but why should i buy a brand new car with a major issue?
Or is it not a major issue? i actualy wanted to try the track once in my life time but now i have to worry about the engine?
i dunno right now it feels like a turn off
Or is it not a major issue? i actualy wanted to try the track once in my life time but now i have to worry about the engine?
i dunno right now it feels like a turn off
02-03-2009, 11:19 AM
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well, the only negative I could see from a daily driver with occasional mountain driving standpoint (like the Dragon), you'd probably want to avoid extended oil change intervals. A quality oil will take the punishment, but if it were me, I'd send a few samples to Blackstone to make sure the oil is holding up.
02-03-2009, 06:38 PM
#30
I think this was to be expected. The VQ37VHR was already known to be engineered with a sensitive eye on oil temperatures, well before the 370Z made it to production. There wasn't much Nissan could do since the G37's release that would indicate the 370Z wouldn't have this problem, except not use the VQ37VHR, and I imagine they need to install it in several vehicles for a certain number of years to recoup their engineering expenses for the new engine's VVEL system.
The VVEL is a fairly complex system, with a relatively high amount of reciprocating mass and multiple linkages. The lubrication demands are very high to ensure Nissan's life expectancy goals are met. The shearing loads and high pressures exerted on the oil dictate a proper viscosity be maintained in order to resist lubrication failure due to these loads. Because an oil's ability to resist shearing weakens as it gets hot and thins out; a phenomenon plotted as a function of viscosity and shear stability known as the Stribeck curve, it is essential that the oil maintain it's specified viscosity at the appropriate operating temperature. This is why Nissan has engineered a fail-safe which limits power until the oil cools back to its specified operating temperature, because at that temperature it should be at the proper viscosity to withstand the high loads of the VVEL system.
Nissan has already recommended a conventional oil with an ester additive (most likely a borate ester) for a TSB with the VQ37VHR. This was designed to reduce noise and ensure proper lubrication at a wider range of temperatures. However, even a synthetic will thin out with heat, and running a high-end synthetic does not guarantee that the thinner viscosity will have the film strength to resist the mechanical pressures exerted on it by the valvetrain's various components.
Like most engines which see racing or track endeavors, increasing the oil viscosity and capacity will most likely be the best solution to ensure proper lubrication at higher temps. There's a reason high-end sports cars like the M3 use a 60 weight oil. Tampering with the oil temperature sensor might very well become a track hound's legitimate option to maintain the engine's power potential, and as long as a heavier weight oil is used, they might be just fine in doing so. Time will tell.
Will (still wishes the 350hp VQ38HR was used in the new Z34 chassis, instead of the VQ37VHR)
The VVEL is a fairly complex system, with a relatively high amount of reciprocating mass and multiple linkages. The lubrication demands are very high to ensure Nissan's life expectancy goals are met. The shearing loads and high pressures exerted on the oil dictate a proper viscosity be maintained in order to resist lubrication failure due to these loads. Because an oil's ability to resist shearing weakens as it gets hot and thins out; a phenomenon plotted as a function of viscosity and shear stability known as the Stribeck curve, it is essential that the oil maintain it's specified viscosity at the appropriate operating temperature. This is why Nissan has engineered a fail-safe which limits power until the oil cools back to its specified operating temperature, because at that temperature it should be at the proper viscosity to withstand the high loads of the VVEL system.
Nissan has already recommended a conventional oil with an ester additive (most likely a borate ester) for a TSB with the VQ37VHR. This was designed to reduce noise and ensure proper lubrication at a wider range of temperatures. However, even a synthetic will thin out with heat, and running a high-end synthetic does not guarantee that the thinner viscosity will have the film strength to resist the mechanical pressures exerted on it by the valvetrain's various components.
Like most engines which see racing or track endeavors, increasing the oil viscosity and capacity will most likely be the best solution to ensure proper lubrication at higher temps. There's a reason high-end sports cars like the M3 use a 60 weight oil. Tampering with the oil temperature sensor might very well become a track hound's legitimate option to maintain the engine's power potential, and as long as a heavier weight oil is used, they might be just fine in doing so. Time will tell.
Will (still wishes the 350hp VQ38HR was used in the new Z34 chassis, instead of the VQ37VHR)
02-04-2009, 05:22 AM
#33
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I think this was to be expected. The VQ37VHR was already known to be engineered with a sensitive eye on oil temperatures, well before the 370Z made it to production. There wasn't much Nissan could do since the G37's release that would indicate the 370Z wouldn't have this problem, except not use the VQ37VHR, and I imagine they need to install it in several vehicles for a certain number of years to recoup their engineering expenses for the new engine's VVEL system.
The VVEL is a fairly complex system, with a relatively high amount of reciprocating mass and multiple linkages. The lubrication demands are very high to ensure Nissan's life expectancy goals are met. The shearing loads and high pressures exerted on the oil dictate a proper viscosity be maintained in order to resist lubrication failure due to these loads. Because an oil's ability to resist shearing weakens as it gets hot and thins out; a phenomenon plotted as a function of viscosity and shear stability known as the Stribeck curve, it is essential that the oil maintain it's specified viscosity at the appropriate operating temperature. This is why Nissan has engineered a fail-safe which limits power until the oil cools back to its specified operating temperature, because at that temperature it should be at the proper viscosity to withstand the high loads of the VVEL system.
Nissan has already recommended a conventional oil with an ester additive (most likely a borate ester) for a TSB with the VQ37VHR. This was designed to reduce noise and ensure proper lubrication at a wider range of temperatures. However, even a synthetic will thin out with heat, and running a high-end synthetic does not guarantee that the thinner viscosity will have the film strength to resist the mechanical pressures exerted on it by the valvetrain's various components.
Like most engines which see racing or track endeavors, increasing the oil viscosity and capacity will most likely be the best solution to ensure proper lubrication at higher temps. There's a reason high-end sports cars like the M3 use a 60 weight oil. Tampering with the oil temperature sensor might very well become a track hound's legitimate option to maintain the engine's power potential, and as long as a heavier weight oil is used, they might be just fine in doing so. Time will tell.
Will (still wishes the 350hp VQ38HR was used in the new Z34 chassis, instead of the VQ37VHR)
The VVEL is a fairly complex system, with a relatively high amount of reciprocating mass and multiple linkages. The lubrication demands are very high to ensure Nissan's life expectancy goals are met. The shearing loads and high pressures exerted on the oil dictate a proper viscosity be maintained in order to resist lubrication failure due to these loads. Because an oil's ability to resist shearing weakens as it gets hot and thins out; a phenomenon plotted as a function of viscosity and shear stability known as the Stribeck curve, it is essential that the oil maintain it's specified viscosity at the appropriate operating temperature. This is why Nissan has engineered a fail-safe which limits power until the oil cools back to its specified operating temperature, because at that temperature it should be at the proper viscosity to withstand the high loads of the VVEL system.
Nissan has already recommended a conventional oil with an ester additive (most likely a borate ester) for a TSB with the VQ37VHR. This was designed to reduce noise and ensure proper lubrication at a wider range of temperatures. However, even a synthetic will thin out with heat, and running a high-end synthetic does not guarantee that the thinner viscosity will have the film strength to resist the mechanical pressures exerted on it by the valvetrain's various components.
Like most engines which see racing or track endeavors, increasing the oil viscosity and capacity will most likely be the best solution to ensure proper lubrication at higher temps. There's a reason high-end sports cars like the M3 use a 60 weight oil. Tampering with the oil temperature sensor might very well become a track hound's legitimate option to maintain the engine's power potential, and as long as a heavier weight oil is used, they might be just fine in doing so. Time will tell.
Will (still wishes the 350hp VQ38HR was used in the new Z34 chassis, instead of the VQ37VHR)
The question to me is... If Nissan knew this would be a problem why didn't they correct it by slapping on a factory oil cooler? In reality it's a very cheap part to fix something like this. I realize multiplied acrossed thousands of cars it's not a cheap fix but it's not like they couldn't bump the price of a 370Z a few hundred dollars to make up for it.
02-04-2009, 06:08 AM
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How many of you guys are ACTUALLY going to track your 370z anyway? I mean, realistically, about 5% of the people on this board actually race their Zs; so its not like it really makes a ****.
Oh, and as to the comment about the vq38hr in the RS; I agree, it would be sweet if it were to come over, even in street trim (350hp), but taht wuoldnt solve this overheating concern. I was under the impression that it was internally just a bored/stroked vq35hr.
Oh, and as to the comment about the vq38hr in the RS; I agree, it would be sweet if it were to come over, even in street trim (350hp), but taht wuoldnt solve this overheating concern. I was under the impression that it was internally just a bored/stroked vq35hr.
02-04-2009, 06:18 AM
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How many of you guys are ACTUALLY going to track your 370z anyway? I mean, realistically, about 5% of the people on this board actually race their Zs; so its not like it really makes a ****.
Oh, and as to the comment about the vq38hr in the RS; I agree, it would be sweet if it were to come over, even in street trim (350hp), but taht wuoldnt solve this overheating concern. I was under the impression that it was internally just a bored/stroked vq35hr.
Oh, and as to the comment about the vq38hr in the RS; I agree, it would be sweet if it were to come over, even in street trim (350hp), but taht wuoldnt solve this overheating concern. I was under the impression that it was internally just a bored/stroked vq35hr.
If I bought a sports car I would expect it to function at Road America without issue... maybe that's just me? Why buy a sports car that can't be used on a track? Makes as much sense as buying an SUV that can't be used offroad.
02-04-2009, 06:22 AM
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I mean with features like SynchroRev, a 50/50 weight balance,clarge factory brakes, agressive rubber, etc one might think the car was designed for that purpose instead of simply made for driving to the grocery store and back.I understand not everyone tracks their 350Z but not everyone who buys a Corvette tracks their car either and the guys who do track their cars don't have issues doing it.
Last edited by S8ER95Z; 02-04-2009 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Revised for clarity
02-04-2009, 06:32 AM
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seems like the guys who do track the car will have to take it into consideration, then you'll have to deal with Nissan dealers wanting to argue that you voided your warranty with an oil cooler.
I think a road course putting your car into limp mode is pretty extreme. I wonder how often it will happen this summer, when people head out to their favorite twisty roads. Or how well the oil holds up for people who push their car at every stoplight. I still feel like the VQ should be a no-excuses 200K+ motor in whatever platform it lives in. Hopefully Nissan feels that way too. But, sometimes you have to wonder if the marketing dept is calling the shots, not engineering. They've definitely put out some great specs for the price of the car. But there are certain compromises that arent acceptible, like a sports car that cant participate in motorsports without shutting down, if it turns out to be so..
I think a road course putting your car into limp mode is pretty extreme. I wonder how often it will happen this summer, when people head out to their favorite twisty roads. Or how well the oil holds up for people who push their car at every stoplight. I still feel like the VQ should be a no-excuses 200K+ motor in whatever platform it lives in. Hopefully Nissan feels that way too. But, sometimes you have to wonder if the marketing dept is calling the shots, not engineering. They've definitely put out some great specs for the price of the car. But there are certain compromises that arent acceptible, like a sports car that cant participate in motorsports without shutting down, if it turns out to be so..
02-04-2009, 06:34 AM
#39
I see the point with Nismo but the car isn't made for the track? What's the point of it? I mean with features like SynchroRev, a 50/50 weight balance, etc one might be confused by all of this...
I understand not everyone tracks their car but not everyone who buys a Corvette tracks their car either...
I mean with features like SynchroRev, a 50/50 weight balance, etc one might be confused by all of this...I understand not everyone tracks their car but not everyone who buys a Corvette tracks their car either...
"oh wow it goes 0-60 in 3.5 seconds!"
02-04-2009, 07:17 AM
#40
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Those features are marketing tools to give Nissan one-up on other auto manufacturers. Just like the launch control on the GT-R, it's a marketing tool to impress potential buyers. Making cars track worthy isn't Nissan's #1 priority, they want to sell cars to the masses.
"oh wow it goes 0-60 in 3.5 seconds!"
"oh wow it goes 0-60 in 3.5 seconds!"