Pictures of my 'system'
05-03-2005, 10:18 AM
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Pictures of my 'system'
The first thing to say is I built this for quality, not for looks, gaspes, or negative critism. Feel free to comment anyway you want but everything was done for a reason.
The overall goal of the install was to build something simple that sounds good and allows room to put luggage in the car. I race the car in autox B Stock therefore I didn't want drama like massive subs, tons of amps, fiberglass, etc...
Everything in the car was installed by me, built by me, and all decisions were mine.
With that said I'm in the planning stages of changing almost everything - lol - but only time will tell. I want to post this pictures because many of the things I've done where done to increase sound quality in the car in pretty much stock form. There's over 1 full box of Dnyamat Xtreme (I believe 14 sheets total) in the car and if it really needs a few more. The doors are packed with 2" & 3" foam between the door panel and door as well.
Specs:
HU - Eclispe 8053 w/ 16V line driver
Wiring - Stinger Expert series wires, battery terminals, fuse holder, and Stinger Bullet RCAs
Amp - Xtant X603 (75Wx2, 150Wx1 @ 4ohm)
Front Components - Boston Z6 Reference (tweets in kick panels)
Front Ambient Tweeters - Boston Neo Type M (stock tweeter location)
Subwoofer - Boston Pro 10.5LF 4ohm
Here's the junk in the trunk (Picture taking Sept 04 @ Nopi Nationals)
:
The crossovers sit on carbon fiber as well as the amplifier. All windows and carbon fiber around the sub have covers to protect/hide. (Picture taking Sept 04 @ Nopi Nationals)
Here's the picture I think most are looking for - how I mounted my front speakers/tweets. The front woofers are spaced out 1.5" and centered in the stock opening. I did this to increase sound out of the door which is hampered greatly by the door panels when the speakers are mounted centered in the stock opening.
Yes my car is really dirty in the picture - I've been travelling for the past 2 months almost non-stop. I got lucky today to be at home for a few hours before having to go to KC - so I snapped the picture. I pulled it out of the garage and left the windows down and it got really dusty
.
Please feel free to ask any questions.
The overall goal of the install was to build something simple that sounds good and allows room to put luggage in the car. I race the car in autox B Stock therefore I didn't want drama like massive subs, tons of amps, fiberglass, etc...
Everything in the car was installed by me, built by me, and all decisions were mine.
With that said I'm in the planning stages of changing almost everything - lol - but only time will tell. I want to post this pictures because many of the things I've done where done to increase sound quality in the car in pretty much stock form. There's over 1 full box of Dnyamat Xtreme (I believe 14 sheets total) in the car and if it really needs a few more. The doors are packed with 2" & 3" foam between the door panel and door as well.
Specs:
HU - Eclispe 8053 w/ 16V line driver
Wiring - Stinger Expert series wires, battery terminals, fuse holder, and Stinger Bullet RCAs
Amp - Xtant X603 (75Wx2, 150Wx1 @ 4ohm)
Front Components - Boston Z6 Reference (tweets in kick panels)
Front Ambient Tweeters - Boston Neo Type M (stock tweeter location)
Subwoofer - Boston Pro 10.5LF 4ohm
Here's the junk in the trunk (Picture taking Sept 04 @ Nopi Nationals)
:
The crossovers sit on carbon fiber as well as the amplifier. All windows and carbon fiber around the sub have covers to protect/hide. (Picture taking Sept 04 @ Nopi Nationals)
Here's the picture I think most are looking for - how I mounted my front speakers/tweets. The front woofers are spaced out 1.5" and centered in the stock opening. I did this to increase sound out of the door which is hampered greatly by the door panels when the speakers are mounted centered in the stock opening.
Yes my car is really dirty in the picture - I've been travelling for the past 2 months almost non-stop. I got lucky today to be at home for a few hours before having to go to KC - so I snapped the picture. I pulled it out of the garage and left the windows down and it got really dusty
.Please feel free to ask any questions.
05-03-2005, 12:48 PM
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Cheers for posting the pics mate 
As above re the tweets, is fitting them infront of the speaker on the mounting arm that comes with them not a good thing to do?
How do you find the boston 10.5lf sub?
I've got 3 of the same subs, and will be starting to make myself a fiberglass box for them very soon, under the rear strut bar, as per the norm.
I was wondering if 3 of them might be a bit too much, would I be better off just using two of them?
Will be powering them with a JL Audio 1000/1.
Have Boston 6.5 pro's for front & rear, running off a JL Audio 450/4.
2 or 3 then guys ?
As above re the tweets, is fitting them infront of the speaker on the mounting arm that comes with them not a good thing to do?
How do you find the boston 10.5lf sub?
I've got 3 of the same subs, and will be starting to make myself a fiberglass box for them very soon, under the rear strut bar, as per the norm.
I was wondering if 3 of them might be a bit too much, would I be better off just using two of them?
Will be powering them with a JL Audio 1000/1.
Have Boston 6.5 pro's for front & rear, running off a JL Audio 450/4.
2 or 3 then guys ?
05-03-2005, 01:16 PM
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I have my tweets in the kickpanels (nearer to axis). But was wondering how you got your's mounted so close to the edge. Isn't the panel too rounded there to get them flush?
05-03-2005, 02:24 PM
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NismoGCoupe - I do have tweets in my stock location but they are running ambient (8k HZ and up). Seperating the main tweeters that far from the woofers makes for seperation, poor imaging, and too much highs.
orangeboy - no it's not bad at all. Boston gives you 3 different mounting options for seperating the two. By placing them facing straight back in the car and upward I get a much wider sound stage and a lot more realistic. Mounting them on the woofer would bring my stage downward and narrow it up immensly. My stage is as wide as the windows if not with the illusion of outside of the car.
I played for 3 days on where to place the tweeters and in the kicks facing straight back gave the best sound stage and imaging. I really want to build better kicks just to get them aimed slightly higher and facing directly back in the car. Currently they are slightly inward by about 5 degrees.
As far as the sub goes it's an awesome sub, even though it's way outdated now. 0.5 cu-ft is all you need for them sealed. Mine is 0.58cu-ft to better round out the lows for SQ. It doesn't hit has hard as it does in 0.5 boxes (I've got one in my daily driver in 0.5). I've heard of up to 140dB using 1 10.5 with 1000watts. I hit 136.8dB with only 150watts. I know a friend use to compete with 4 of them and hit 151dB. You could easily do only 2 in the Z and have plenty of bass but by placing it under the strut bar you loose a lot. The best way to build pressure in the Z is firing upwards towards the hatch. With that being said - either will work so how loud and how much bass do you want.
dannichols - there's actually a very slight lip under my tweet mounts but can't be seen unless you get up close. The ends justify the means so I live with it - lol. I diefinitely recommend aiming them as much backwards as possible. If you'd like to try grab some velcro and double sided tape and try it for yourself.
orangeboy - no it's not bad at all. Boston gives you 3 different mounting options for seperating the two. By placing them facing straight back in the car and upward I get a much wider sound stage and a lot more realistic. Mounting them on the woofer would bring my stage downward and narrow it up immensly. My stage is as wide as the windows if not with the illusion of outside of the car.
I played for 3 days on where to place the tweeters and in the kicks facing straight back gave the best sound stage and imaging. I really want to build better kicks just to get them aimed slightly higher and facing directly back in the car. Currently they are slightly inward by about 5 degrees.
As far as the sub goes it's an awesome sub, even though it's way outdated now. 0.5 cu-ft is all you need for them sealed. Mine is 0.58cu-ft to better round out the lows for SQ. It doesn't hit has hard as it does in 0.5 boxes (I've got one in my daily driver in 0.5). I've heard of up to 140dB using 1 10.5 with 1000watts. I hit 136.8dB with only 150watts. I know a friend use to compete with 4 of them and hit 151dB. You could easily do only 2 in the Z and have plenty of bass but by placing it under the strut bar you loose a lot. The best way to build pressure in the Z is firing upwards towards the hatch. With that being said - either will work so how loud and how much bass do you want.
dannichols - there's actually a very slight lip under my tweet mounts but can't be seen unless you get up close. The ends justify the means so I live with it - lol. I diefinitely recommend aiming them as much backwards as possible. If you'd like to try grab some velcro and double sided tape and try it for yourself.
05-03-2005, 03:26 PM
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An informative reply, thank you
I'll start with my tweets on the supplied bracket I think, just to see what it sounds like 'at it's worst' so to speak. It's easy to mount them on there, so worth a quick go to see what's it's like. Then I can try them as you have suggested, I'll appreciate the difference more
I was going to line the inside of the rear speaker area (where the standard speaker fits) with dynomat extreme and seal up the gaps with the spray on dynamat stuff in a can, to try to get a 'sealed box' for the 6.5 to work in. This would give a 12"x6"x6" or thereabouts sealed box.
Is this worth doing at all or am I wasting my time on that one?
Should I line it with dynamat or some other material if I do this? Would the sound waves 'bounce' around a lot inside a dynomat lined box, off of all the silver foil, creating a poor sound?
I'll start with my tweets on the supplied bracket I think, just to see what it sounds like 'at it's worst' so to speak. It's easy to mount them on there, so worth a quick go to see what's it's like. Then I can try them as you have suggested, I'll appreciate the difference more
I was going to line the inside of the rear speaker area (where the standard speaker fits) with dynomat extreme and seal up the gaps with the spray on dynamat stuff in a can, to try to get a 'sealed box' for the 6.5 to work in. This would give a 12"x6"x6" or thereabouts sealed box.
Is this worth doing at all or am I wasting my time on that one?
Should I line it with dynamat or some other material if I do this? Would the sound waves 'bounce' around a lot inside a dynomat lined box, off of all the silver foil, creating a poor sound?
05-03-2005, 03:29 PM
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Orange, you may find it easier to simply velcro them on the kicks to see what they sound like. Like 350Z I found a big improvement mounting them low, you will be surprised. Also, IMO the rear 6.5 are a waste at anything over 10% volume. Use them for rear fill with your HU power.
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05-03-2005, 03:55 PM
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Don't worry I'd be trying them out in a few places before making any holes etc, so I can find out what place is best for them...
The rears will be getting the 2x75w from the JL 450/4, the fronts would get the 2x150w from the other channel on the 450/4. I get the idea a lot of people on hear seem to run the rears at a fraction of the front volume, often using a cheaper speaker in the rear also. Many use no rears at all.
No rears at all has got me puzzled a bit. Even if you have great tv/music front speakers at home, even a small amount of sound from the back still seems to add to the overall effect. Surely even a small amount of sound from the back would improve the sound in the zed, compared to just having fronts.
I've allways liked quite a lot of sound from rear speakers in cars, maybe this is because I've never had the front set up correctly?
Would my 'box' idea for the rears improve the sound they make though or make it worse?
The rears will be getting the 2x75w from the JL 450/4, the fronts would get the 2x150w from the other channel on the 450/4. I get the idea a lot of people on hear seem to run the rears at a fraction of the front volume, often using a cheaper speaker in the rear also. Many use no rears at all.
No rears at all has got me puzzled a bit. Even if you have great tv/music front speakers at home, even a small amount of sound from the back still seems to add to the overall effect. Surely even a small amount of sound from the back would improve the sound in the zed, compared to just having fronts.
I've allways liked quite a lot of sound from rear speakers in cars, maybe this is because I've never had the front set up correctly?
Would my 'box' idea for the rears improve the sound they make though or make it worse?
05-03-2005, 04:04 PM
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6.5 woofers get more mids in sealed areas but the SQ drops dramatically. Most installs I've seen try to get as much air space behind the woofers as possible. In kicks they typically cut out the carpet behind to maximize the air behind them for SQ. Being used for rear fill (blah - I hate rear fill) at low volumes a sealed enclosure might be better for them since they don't have the greatest mids in the world. They will loose accuracy in a sealed area.
The Reference Z6s are built off the Pro 6.5 baskets. They basically opened up the basket vents, cut the bottom of the driver basket off to facilitate the Z6s enomorous drivers on the Z6s, use a carbon fiber cone, bigger voice coil, and new surround. I've got 3 sets of old Pro speakers (2 6.5s and 1 5.5) and they are very linear and accurate speakers. The Z6 References are Pro 6.5s on steriods, crack, and adreneline. Please feel free to ask any questions about the 6.5s. I've been using them since 98 when they were first released.
My biggest watchouts with them in a Z is putting the tweets in the stock location - they are very loud even when attenuated to the max. The Neo 5T tweets if properly gained correctly and placed correctly in the car are KILLER! You can probably still grab the old Boston 5T Neo tweeter set for ambients still off ebay or just grab the new Pro Neo type M tweeters for ambients as well. It's well worth the extra $100-200 for them.
When I did have the 6.5s in my Z I had the tweets set to axis mount and attenuated 0db in the kicks.
Almost forgot - have I rambled enough - line everything you can directly behind the woofers regardless of where you mount them - it helps tremdendously. I've got 3 layers directly behind my woofers in the door on the outside door skin. The 3 layers cover about 14x14" square.
The Reference Z6s are built off the Pro 6.5 baskets. They basically opened up the basket vents, cut the bottom of the driver basket off to facilitate the Z6s enomorous drivers on the Z6s, use a carbon fiber cone, bigger voice coil, and new surround. I've got 3 sets of old Pro speakers (2 6.5s and 1 5.5) and they are very linear and accurate speakers. The Z6 References are Pro 6.5s on steriods, crack, and adreneline. Please feel free to ask any questions about the 6.5s. I've been using them since 98 when they were first released.
My biggest watchouts with them in a Z is putting the tweets in the stock location - they are very loud even when attenuated to the max. The Neo 5T tweets if properly gained correctly and placed correctly in the car are KILLER! You can probably still grab the old Boston 5T Neo tweeter set for ambients still off ebay or just grab the new Pro Neo type M tweeters for ambients as well. It's well worth the extra $100-200 for them.
When I did have the 6.5s in my Z I had the tweets set to axis mount and attenuated 0db in the kicks.
Almost forgot - have I rambled enough - line everything you can directly behind the woofers regardless of where you mount them - it helps tremdendously. I've got 3 layers directly behind my woofers in the door on the outside door skin. The 3 layers cover about 14x14" square.
05-03-2005, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by orangeboy
No rears at all has got me puzzled a bit. Even if you have great tv/music front speakers at home, even a small amount of sound from the back still seems to add to the overall effect. Surely even a small amount of sound from the back would improve the sound in the zed, compared to just having fronts.
Basically rear fill will kill your sound quality for music. No ands, ifs or buts about it - when replaying music rear fill always kills it. Remember, when reproducing music you are trying to reproduce things as to how you would see it live. Unless you are standing right in the middle of the 'production' the music will always be in front of you. Not only does rear fill ruin this experience, it always plays with the acoustics of the car as sound waves now are interacting with each other. Rear fill also brings your stage backwards. You want your stage in front of you, with the height centered just at the dash height or higher. You want the band to be playing as if they were sitting on the dash - this is the natural height you want to produce. If you close your eyes you should be able to see in your head the music being played on the dash. Rear fill pulls the stage closer to you, detracting from this experience.
I promise you that if you get the proper front stage you'll hate rear fill for the rest of your life. It takes a lot to get good front stage but once you have it you'll be dead set on it. nothing is more impressive then killer front stage and it enhances the experience 10 fold.
Obviously rear fill would be wanted for video reproduction where you are trying to feel as if you are in then action.
The Z is a hard beast to tackle for SQ as it has a massive center counsil that ruins sound quality. Add in the fact it's a small car with highly reflective plastics doesn't help. Keeping things simple is the sure fire way to get the best sound out of it.
Once you get your install done, make it easy to turn off the rear speakers completely. Try turing them off for a month and see if you want them on again.
05-03-2005, 04:29 PM
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Feel free to ramble on as much as you like
It's big news on the UK forum if someone installs a DVD sat nav system. A few guys have fitted a new HU and that's about it. ICE stuff over here costs a fortune. We don't get the same amount of choice you guys get also, i've never heard of lots of the makes of stuff you guys talk about over here.
A pair of Z6's are £1000 here, that's like $1892 a pair
A JL 1000/1 again £1000, 450/4 £800. You get the idea...
Asking questions like this on the UK forum would yeild me very few replies, most would be along the lines of 'the bose system sounds fine to me, what you spending all that money for' kind of thing.
So I just need to put some dynamat behind the rears, but not bother to seal the area up then?
I'm after SQ.
Cheers for your time all
It's big news on the UK forum if someone installs a DVD sat nav system. A few guys have fitted a new HU and that's about it. ICE stuff over here costs a fortune. We don't get the same amount of choice you guys get also, i've never heard of lots of the makes of stuff you guys talk about over here.
A pair of Z6's are £1000 here, that's like $1892 a pair
A JL 1000/1 again £1000, 450/4 £800. You get the idea...
Asking questions like this on the UK forum would yeild me very few replies, most would be along the lines of 'the bose system sounds fine to me, what you spending all that money for' kind of thing.
So I just need to put some dynamat behind the rears, but not bother to seal the area up then?
I'm after SQ.
Cheers for your time all
05-04-2005, 04:18 AM
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could you fill me in on how you ran wires to the tweeters? I'm working on adding a 10.5lf to my base right now and want to add Boston pro's up front someday when I have more money. This is a good post to save for reference with all the positive feedback on speaker location but I'm having a hard time imagining an easy way to run the wires back off the door to the kicks. thanks!
p.s. oh wait, did it have something to do with where you choose to mount the crossovers? Like crossovers in the car, run lows to factory harness to door and disconnect factory tweeter then run highs down to kick panels??
If you want your crossovers in the doors then it's 10x harder, huh?
p.s. oh wait, did it have something to do with where you choose to mount the crossovers? Like crossovers in the car, run lows to factory harness to door and disconnect factory tweeter then run highs down to kick panels??
If you want your crossovers in the doors then it's 10x harder, huh?
05-04-2005, 07:29 AM
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I ran dual Spkr wires for tweets, one coming from the crossovers in the cubby and the other coming from the Kenwood head unit. The first set is run to the kick panels, the second is run inside the door (I'm hoping to one day get the ambient setup going just like Kevin did above.)
So long story short is...run new spkr wire and forget about stock.
So long story short is...run new spkr wire and forget about stock.
05-04-2005, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by NismoGCoupe
how come you didnt mount the tweeters in the factory location? do you get better imaging with the tweeter in the kickpanel?
05-05-2005, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bjr48
could you fill me in on how you ran wires to the tweeters? I'm working on adding a 10.5lf to my base right now and want to add Boston pro's up front someday when I have more money. This is a good post to save for reference with all the positive feedback on speaker location but I'm having a hard time imagining an easy way to run the wires back off the door to the kicks. thanks!
p.s. oh wait, did it have something to do with where you choose to mount the crossovers? Like crossovers in the car, run lows to factory harness to door and disconnect factory tweeter then run highs down to kick panels??
If you want your crossovers in the doors then it's 10x harder, huh?
p.s. oh wait, did it have something to do with where you choose to mount the crossovers? Like crossovers in the car, run lows to factory harness to door and disconnect factory tweeter then run highs down to kick panels??
If you want your crossovers in the doors then it's 10x harder, huh?
I ran all new 16 gauge Stinger Pro wires to each speaker. I have 6 sets of speaker wires running from the back of the car (from the crossovers) up the driver side of the car and then to each door/kick area. 3 sets on driver side, 3 on passanger. I had to drill out a hole behind the stock door wiring harness to run 2 sets of wires to each door, one for the woofers and one for the ambient tweeters. I kept all the speaker wires the same length and hid the excess for shorter runs. Hopefully that helps but if not let me know and I'll try to clairify.
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