For everyone complaining about the Bose system...
12-05-2002, 08:33 AM
#1
For everyone complaining about the Bose system...
OK, I know this is probably just going to end up as new thread for people to beat up on this system, but I just have to get this off my chest. Stop the madness! First off, this is not related to the amp fix issue; that was a genuine concern and has been addressed. This is for eveyone complaining about the sound and quality of the system and what the issues really are with it.
Let's start with the "I got ripped off; this is supposed to be a premium sound system!" complaint. BULL. Do you know how many cars come with a bose system? You can get it in a GMC truck, for cying out loud! This is not a finely tailored premium audio system; it's simply an upgrade to the stock system, so get over it. It's not like you paid out the *** for the thing; the difference in price between the Performance and the Touring is not that much; when you take into account all the other upgrades, (leather, power seats, heated, seats, heated mirrors, etc.) the Bose upgrade probably isn't a real big part of the price difference.
Bose has always had a slightly different, yet distinctive sound and way that they do things with all of their speaker systems. People gennerally either love it or hate it. I'm not even sure how much Bose is actually involved in the development of the automotive systems anymore. Obviously, with a Clarion amp, it's not a completely in-house system. If you were expecting a high-end stereo and are dissapointed, well, thats what happens when you don't check something out thouroughly before you buy it. You can always go aftermarket.
Now, for everyone complaining about the "muddy" sounding rear speakers: This is normal for a component speaker system! Sure if you mess with the fader or stick your ear up against it, it's going to be noticable, but this is not how the system is designed to be listened to. The system is composed of two tweeters (upper doors), two mid-ranges (lower doors), two mid-bass (behind seats), and the sub-woofer (behind driver's seat). The system operates through a crossover that routes the appropriate frequency ranges to the correct speakers; all speakers do not receive and produce all of the sound like a normal car stereo. Therefore, if you listen closely to any one speaker, or do not have them balanced, it will not sound right. Mid-bass is "muddy" by nature, this is why the rear speakers sound like this. Hi-Fi home speaker systems work the same way. For example, I have Infinity IL60s for the main speakers in my home theater. They are a four-way design, consisting of a tweeter, mid-range, mid-bass, and 12" sub with dedicated 500Watt amp in each enclosure, all run through a crossover network like the Bose system in the Z. From a normal listening position, they sound great, but if you put your ear up to any of the individual speakers, you hear more of that particular range of the sound and it does not sound right. The difference is that in home speakers, each component seaker is located close to the others; in the Z, or any other auto component system, they are spread out throughout the cabin, therefore it is easier to notice the sound of one speaker over the others if the system is not balanced properly by design and through the fader.
So, does the system have issues? Perhaps, but get it straight before going and getting into an uproar about it. All the pissing, moaning, bitching and complaining in the world won't get you anywhere unless you know what to complain about and can rationally present it in such a way as to get nissan to recognize and identify the issue.
If anything, I think what is causing any problems in the sound quality of the system is the Audiopilot noise compensating system in conjunction with the general lack of sound insulation in the car. Others have posted marked improvements in the sound quality by adding sound insulation. This is something you can do yourself. Nissan left it out to save weight; this is a sports car, after all. The folly on Nissan's (or Bose's) part was to incorporate the Audiopilot into the system at all and not include an off switch for it. The imbalance and general poor sound quality people are complaining about is due to the way the Audiopilot system works. It does not simply raise and lower the overall volume in relation to ambient noise levels, it raises the volume of particular frequency ranges to certain speakers. For example, if there is a high amount of, say, wind noise, the system will boost the frequencies that correspond to that noise, probably the mid-range. If there is a lot of low frequency road noise, the mid-bass and/or bass wil be boosted. What this ends up doing is unbalancing the sound that you hear. If a particular frequency range is boosted while the others are not, it won't sound right.
What is the solution? If it were able to be proven that this is the issue, I doubt there is much Nissan or Bose could do about it short of designing a new head unit or providing a fix to defeat the Audiopilot system altogether. I'm not sure if it will work, but the service manual does provide instructions for the removal of the system's microphone. Disconecting it may defeat the system. Otherwise, the mic is located in the underside of te steering column. One could get in there and muffle it somehow; I think this has been tried with some success.
OK, I feel better now. I'm not here to start a fight or rip on anyone in particular, so be nice. I am not afiliated with Bose or Nissan in any way and do not claim to be a know it all expert. This is just my two cents, so take it or leave it.
Let's start with the "I got ripped off; this is supposed to be a premium sound system!" complaint. BULL. Do you know how many cars come with a bose system? You can get it in a GMC truck, for cying out loud! This is not a finely tailored premium audio system; it's simply an upgrade to the stock system, so get over it. It's not like you paid out the *** for the thing; the difference in price between the Performance and the Touring is not that much; when you take into account all the other upgrades, (leather, power seats, heated, seats, heated mirrors, etc.) the Bose upgrade probably isn't a real big part of the price difference.
Bose has always had a slightly different, yet distinctive sound and way that they do things with all of their speaker systems. People gennerally either love it or hate it. I'm not even sure how much Bose is actually involved in the development of the automotive systems anymore. Obviously, with a Clarion amp, it's not a completely in-house system. If you were expecting a high-end stereo and are dissapointed, well, thats what happens when you don't check something out thouroughly before you buy it. You can always go aftermarket.
Now, for everyone complaining about the "muddy" sounding rear speakers: This is normal for a component speaker system! Sure if you mess with the fader or stick your ear up against it, it's going to be noticable, but this is not how the system is designed to be listened to. The system is composed of two tweeters (upper doors), two mid-ranges (lower doors), two mid-bass (behind seats), and the sub-woofer (behind driver's seat). The system operates through a crossover that routes the appropriate frequency ranges to the correct speakers; all speakers do not receive and produce all of the sound like a normal car stereo. Therefore, if you listen closely to any one speaker, or do not have them balanced, it will not sound right. Mid-bass is "muddy" by nature, this is why the rear speakers sound like this. Hi-Fi home speaker systems work the same way. For example, I have Infinity IL60s for the main speakers in my home theater. They are a four-way design, consisting of a tweeter, mid-range, mid-bass, and 12" sub with dedicated 500Watt amp in each enclosure, all run through a crossover network like the Bose system in the Z. From a normal listening position, they sound great, but if you put your ear up to any of the individual speakers, you hear more of that particular range of the sound and it does not sound right. The difference is that in home speakers, each component seaker is located close to the others; in the Z, or any other auto component system, they are spread out throughout the cabin, therefore it is easier to notice the sound of one speaker over the others if the system is not balanced properly by design and through the fader.
So, does the system have issues? Perhaps, but get it straight before going and getting into an uproar about it. All the pissing, moaning, bitching and complaining in the world won't get you anywhere unless you know what to complain about and can rationally present it in such a way as to get nissan to recognize and identify the issue.
If anything, I think what is causing any problems in the sound quality of the system is the Audiopilot noise compensating system in conjunction with the general lack of sound insulation in the car. Others have posted marked improvements in the sound quality by adding sound insulation. This is something you can do yourself. Nissan left it out to save weight; this is a sports car, after all. The folly on Nissan's (or Bose's) part was to incorporate the Audiopilot into the system at all and not include an off switch for it. The imbalance and general poor sound quality people are complaining about is due to the way the Audiopilot system works. It does not simply raise and lower the overall volume in relation to ambient noise levels, it raises the volume of particular frequency ranges to certain speakers. For example, if there is a high amount of, say, wind noise, the system will boost the frequencies that correspond to that noise, probably the mid-range. If there is a lot of low frequency road noise, the mid-bass and/or bass wil be boosted. What this ends up doing is unbalancing the sound that you hear. If a particular frequency range is boosted while the others are not, it won't sound right.
What is the solution? If it were able to be proven that this is the issue, I doubt there is much Nissan or Bose could do about it short of designing a new head unit or providing a fix to defeat the Audiopilot system altogether. I'm not sure if it will work, but the service manual does provide instructions for the removal of the system's microphone. Disconecting it may defeat the system. Otherwise, the mic is located in the underside of te steering column. One could get in there and muffle it somehow; I think this has been tried with some success.
OK, I feel better now. I'm not here to start a fight or rip on anyone in particular, so be nice. I am not afiliated with Bose or Nissan in any way and do not claim to be a know it all expert. This is just my two cents, so take it or leave it.
12-05-2002, 08:41 AM
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and how is the sound in you Touring Z?
Mine you cant listen to the radio..my kid does and it is terrible.........
Ever return something to a store?
Mine you cant listen to the radio..my kid does and it is terrible.........
Ever return something to a store?
Last edited by grogsnorf; 12-05-2002 at 08:45 AM.
12-05-2002, 08:52 AM
#4
Originally posted by grogsnorf
and how is the sound in you Touring Z?
Mine you cant listen to the radio..my kid does and it is terrible.........
Ever return something to a store?
and how is the sound in you Touring Z?
Mine you cant listen to the radio..my kid does and it is terrible.........
Ever return something to a store?
I do not hesitate to return something to the store if I am not satisfied, but it doesn't work that way with cars, so why even bring it up? No offence intended, but all you are going to do by storming into your dealership ranting and raving about it is make a fool of yourself. As I said, either approach it rationally and prove there needs to be a fix and specifically what it is, or try one of the solutions I suggested.
12-05-2002, 08:55 AM
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No offence taken.......
ranting and raving? storming in the dealership.....some imagination you have.......................i might uninstall it and shove it up his as*..............but nerver ranting and raving...lol
thanx for responding
Grogs
ranting and raving? storming in the dealership.....some imagination you have.......................i might uninstall it and shove it up his as*..............but nerver ranting and raving...lol
thanx for responding
Grogs
12-05-2002, 09:05 AM
#6
Originally posted by grogsnorf
No offence taken.......
ranting and raving? storming in the dealership.....some imagination you have.......................i might uninstall it and shove it up his as*..............but nerver ranting and raving...lol
thanx for responding
Grogs
No offence taken.......
ranting and raving? storming in the dealership.....some imagination you have.......................i might uninstall it and shove it up his as*..............but nerver ranting and raving...lol
thanx for responding
Grogs
No prob. Didn't mean to over dramatize with you, but there are people here posting that they will return to the dealer and demand this and that and are trying to rally lawyers. I understand some people are very upset and no-one likes to spend a lot of money on something and not have it be all they expected, then be told they just have to live with it. I know this is a sore subject and the last thing I want to do is be inflamatory about it. I'm just trying to get people to step back and look at the situation rationally and give viable options.
12-05-2002, 09:08 AM
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Just looking for a fair rebate.....I have an early Vin and it is affected.........probably pull it out and put something hairy in there anyway for my kid...............shouldn't have to do that though.
Glad your sound is okay............but you cant listen to the radio in my car and I am no sound expert......but I do have eardruns.
Thanx
Glad your sound is okay............but you cant listen to the radio in my car and I am no sound expert......but I do have eardruns.
Thanx
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12-05-2002, 10:21 AM
#8
Originally posted by grogsnorf
Just looking for a fair rebate.....I have an early Vin and it is affected.........probably pull it out and put something hairy in there anyway for my kid...............shouldn't have to do that though.
Glad your sound is okay............but you cant listen to the radio in my car and I am no sound expert......but I do have eardruns.
Thanx
Just looking for a fair rebate.....I have an early Vin and it is affected.........probably pull it out and put something hairy in there anyway for my kid...............shouldn't have to do that though.
Glad your sound is okay............but you cant listen to the radio in my car and I am no sound expert......but I do have eardruns.
Thanx
And Dude, that avatar is creeping me out!
12-08-2002, 11:55 AM
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well I feel I have reason to *****... my Z was affected by the amp TSB. I got the ampl replaced.. and now....
my treble and bass controls do not adjust anything... the sound remains fixed at a very flat tone.
You saying I shouldn't ***** that my "premium" system can;t even adjust bass and treble... thats pathetic.. even a $50 K-Mart CD-player can adjust bass and treble.
all you other Bose owners who got the TSB should check those treble and bass controls and you'll see...
I have every right to put forth my complaint.. this is a genuine problem.
my treble and bass controls do not adjust anything... the sound remains fixed at a very flat tone.
You saying I shouldn't ***** that my "premium" system can;t even adjust bass and treble... thats pathetic.. even a $50 K-Mart CD-player can adjust bass and treble.
all you other Bose owners who got the TSB should check those treble and bass controls and you'll see...
I have every right to put forth my complaint.. this is a genuine problem.
12-08-2002, 05:17 PM
#13
Re: For everyone complaining about the Bose system...
Originally posted by MustGoFastR
Let's start with the "I got ripped off; this is supposed to be a premium sound system!" complaint. BULL. Do you know how many cars come with a bose system? You can get it in a GMC truck, for cying out loud!
Let's start with the "I got ripped off; this is supposed to be a premium sound system!" complaint. BULL. Do you know how many cars come with a bose system? You can get it in a GMC truck, for cying out loud!
12-08-2002, 08:22 PM
#14
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Some comments on this issue are really strange. Someone pays for an item. When the item is delivered it doesn’t work properly. Just letting the issue go is not how "Buyer Beware" in a "Free Enterprise System" works! If that were true than whenever something is sold, the purchaser would have to accept whatever the seller delivers. Nissan knows that something is wrong with some, maybe all, of these BOSE systems. If they didn't, they would not have released a TSB. The question now is whether the TSB provides an acceptable solution to the problems faced by the owners. These systems are still under warranty. Maybe the people, who don’t believe that the owners with faulty systems have an issue, could refund the money paid for the bad systems. That way - the owners can buy replacement systems, NISSAN would be off the hook, and the people who say that the owners should just "Let it go" would have a vested interest in the issue.
12-08-2002, 08:39 PM
#15
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....and you know the uproar that you are hearing and tired of still sounds better than my "Blose".
I know that I shouldn't expect much out of a Bose. I never expected high end. I do expect that I get a better sounding radio than a standard stock radio and this does not fit the bill. Fortunately, I haven't gotten off my lazy butt to get the amp fix so I am still holding out hope that it will get better. In either case, it will all get replaced within the next year.
I know that I shouldn't expect much out of a Bose. I never expected high end. I do expect that I get a better sounding radio than a standard stock radio and this does not fit the bill. Fortunately, I haven't gotten off my lazy butt to get the amp fix so I am still holding out hope that it will get better. In either case, it will all get replaced within the next year.
12-09-2002, 04:22 AM
#16
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How do I know
Couple questions:
#1 I'm about to take delivery of my car (in Jan 03). How can I test the stereo system to know whether or not I have the problem?
#2 If it has the problem is it worth rejecting delivery because of it? I can't drive, I should say rather won't drive it in winter anyway...
#3 Fellow Canadians, anyone get their amp replaced yet, better yet has anyone got the dealer to admit to the problem?
#4 Has the problem been corrected at source, i.e. new cars are already fixed?
Thx for the input.
#1 I'm about to take delivery of my car (in Jan 03). How can I test the stereo system to know whether or not I have the problem?
#2 If it has the problem is it worth rejecting delivery because of it? I can't drive, I should say rather won't drive it in winter anyway...
#3 Fellow Canadians, anyone get their amp replaced yet, better yet has anyone got the dealer to admit to the problem?
#4 Has the problem been corrected at source, i.e. new cars are already fixed?
Thx for the input.
12-09-2002, 05:02 AM
#17
Ok, a little damage control...
N74DV: I agree and recognize that there are some serious issues with some, if not all of the Bose systems. My comments were intended only to put into perspective some things that I felt were being blown out of proportion. I completely concur that Nissan should take responsibility for any Bose systems that are obviously not functioning properly and fix them.
MannishBoy: Got a point there, I'm just not much of a truck person. I'm one of those that feels that if you own a truck, it should be for a purpose, not just to have a truck. This coming from a sports car enthusiast who has to deal with sifting through the vast sea of trucks on the road here in Texas.
wwhite: Agreed. If they are going to fix it (which they obviously should), they need to do it right. For people still having issues, I would hope they recognize that the amp swap may not be the "cure-all" and go back to the drawing board.
Goober: See other comments. It is under waranty; they should fix it, so you don't have to shell out for a new system yourself. Again, some people do have deffinite malfunctions; Nissan should step up to the plate for those customers.
Principe: Good questions, which I am wondering myself as my delivery date approaches. #1: before you sign on the dotted line, test the stereo thoroughly with the vehicle sitting still and while on the road; insist on a test drive before you commit. Test the volume, trebble, bass, balance and fader. Listem for abnormal fluctuations in the sound and volume. #2: That all depends on you and what you are willing to accept. Personnaly, if there is no more progress on a fix by the time it comes in, and if some other issues about the car that I am concerned about are present and have not been addressed, I may reject it and order a Track, or just go next door and order a BMW 330ci, which was a close second on my wish list. #3: Can't help you there. #4: I would like to know this as well. I haven't heard an answer on it here or heard any comments from people with post-pre-order Touring cars. I guess we'll find out when they come in.
N74DV: I agree and recognize that there are some serious issues with some, if not all of the Bose systems. My comments were intended only to put into perspective some things that I felt were being blown out of proportion. I completely concur that Nissan should take responsibility for any Bose systems that are obviously not functioning properly and fix them.
MannishBoy: Got a point there, I'm just not much of a truck person. I'm one of those that feels that if you own a truck, it should be for a purpose, not just to have a truck. This coming from a sports car enthusiast who has to deal with sifting through the vast sea of trucks on the road here in Texas.
wwhite: Agreed. If they are going to fix it (which they obviously should), they need to do it right. For people still having issues, I would hope they recognize that the amp swap may not be the "cure-all" and go back to the drawing board.
Goober: See other comments. It is under waranty; they should fix it, so you don't have to shell out for a new system yourself. Again, some people do have deffinite malfunctions; Nissan should step up to the plate for those customers.
Principe: Good questions, which I am wondering myself as my delivery date approaches. #1: before you sign on the dotted line, test the stereo thoroughly with the vehicle sitting still and while on the road; insist on a test drive before you commit. Test the volume, trebble, bass, balance and fader. Listem for abnormal fluctuations in the sound and volume. #2: That all depends on you and what you are willing to accept. Personnaly, if there is no more progress on a fix by the time it comes in, and if some other issues about the car that I am concerned about are present and have not been addressed, I may reject it and order a Track, or just go next door and order a BMW 330ci, which was a close second on my wish list. #3: Can't help you there. #4: I would like to know this as well. I haven't heard an answer on it here or heard any comments from people with post-pre-order Touring cars. I guess we'll find out when they come in.
12-09-2002, 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by grogsnorf
That was nice...thanks
That was nice...thanks
12-09-2002, 03:42 PM
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I dont know if i agree about the price. The G35 bose costs about 900. And though its not amazing, its much better than the base sterio. Im not sure if it has as many speakers etc.... but im sure its close so im sure they charged atleast 700 or more...... Which is alot. It may not be alot to those who sped 3,000 on those stupid steriors that are way to loud anyway 
..... Whatever the main point was that you might have paid more thank you think.
..... Whatever the main point was that you might have paid more thank you think.