Mr Fairlady

iTrader: (1)

I'm plannin on Trashin the Rear speakers in the 350,..anyone know how hard it is to get to the speakers themselves??
what all do I have to do to get the rear piece off?

THANX!

Anyone2u

iTrader: (1)

This thread by Roberto350Z may be of help to you. Good luck.

Autobahn

I had the guys from Al & Ed's Stereo shop replace the rear Bose speakers with Eclipse Point Source. It was a slight improvement. Rounds out the sound. The amp probably has a built in crossover so the rears don't get the full frequency range but I picked up some highs none the less. Regarding the difficulty: after watching the install it wasn't as hard as I thought you just have to be prepared to pull up a lot of the plastic pieces on the sides and the tower. I would recommend you go through with it.

Good Luck!

Mr Fairlady

iTrader: (1)

Cool,.sounds about normal,..but If I buy the speakers from the place I'm gettin em,.they will install them for Free,..so I'll probably do that if it comes down to it!

nizl

please do not replace the rear speakers with others. Do not ever have rear speakers. It is bayd umkay.....

http://www.teamcaf.org/geolemon/Phasing/Phasing.htm

Mr Fairlady

iTrader: (1)

I don't understand,...your tellin me not to replace them?

anything would be better then the rear Speakers in a Z,..have you ever faded the sound to just the rear-->it sounds like *******!
Most cars I've owned do,..but yet,.BIG Lexus' have awesome 6x9's(the best speaker ever made IMO) all around and they sound geat,..if the rears had more clarical definition like the Fronts do,..I would be lovin it!
BUt They sound like ****,..umkay!

RoBD305

Rear speakers to audiophiles distort what we call "imaging" of the sound. Unless you are looking for a surround sound, you want your car to sound like a band is playinig on the hood of your car, not behind it.
I would invest in a good component set in the front and have no rears than to replace the rears.

Autobahn

for non-audiophiles . . .

having better rear speakers (eclipse point source) has improved the sound of my Bose. I don't necessarily care that in a concert the sound would come from the "front" I like to be immersed in sound. Again just a non-audiophiles $.02.

Vlad

It makes sence to me. No rears - better, more real sound. If it's sound you care about, not nubmer of expensive speakers

roberto350z

if you read the link, it will prove to any rational person beyond a shadow of a doubt that rear speakers degrade sound quality. If rear speakers improve your situation, then you need to be looking into front speakers to make REAL improvement.

Da Gimp

From that site, one could conclude that using only front speakers wouldnt sound very good either, since the front speakers are different distances from your ears (You are closer to the left front speaker).

Personally I like being surrounded by sound as well. I usually don't have my rear speakers set as load as the fronts, however.

Mr Fairlady

iTrader: (1)

BUt all I'm sayin is the Front Speakers are the ****!!!!! They sound Great,.the rear has no type of bass or barely any sound comin out of em'---and all I have are the front and rears--no sub for me,.if I had the sub,..I'd probably be fine,..but its just like all other cars I've owned--GOOD up front-Bad in the back!

There is Plenty!!! OF treble,.so I don't need a component set--just some sound period!
I hate when all the sound is in one spot--like most of the Volume in the front and all the bass in the back where the Sub is,.I hate that,..I gotta be surronded as well!!
I was gonna by some $90 Infiniti rear speakers and that I'm sure would do it,.just was askin how to get the old ones out,.but I'll have Them do that instead!

bsantini

I just yanked out the rears this weekend and replaced them with Infinity 652i's. I didn't have time to really mess around with the stereo and wanted a quick improvement. I just moved the fader up to FF2 to balance the sound. I can now live with the system for a while. BTW - I have the stock system.

MSGarrett1

Here's my $0.02 on rear speakers in automobiles. 1) They will degrade stereo imaging unless one is using some sort of digital time-delay processing that delays the signal path coming from the drivers (speakers) closest to you. This processing is found in the higher-end (more expensive) Alpine head units with Bass plus (7995, 7998, etc) and Bass pro, and in the kick-*** F1 Alpine headunit--7990 ($3000 retail). It is also found in some of the more expensive Eclipse head units. To utilize this processing, you actually measure the distances between all the speakers in the vehicle and the head of the person sitting in the driver's seat. Then you perform some ratio analysis and set the ratio to 1 for the speaker farthest from you. (Alpine spells all this out in their owner's manuals). Anyway, once all this is done and the headunit properly programmed, the imaging is perfect!!!!! The imaging is better than the most expensive headunit without this processing playing Dynaudios through the most expensive amp you can imagine. Believe me, you have not experienced stereo imaging from the driver's seat of your car until you have heard this processing!!!

2) OK, so with the exception of the above processing, we can agree that stereo imaging in automobiles is degraded with rear speakers. To this I must say--well so what? Is that really all that important to you? It is to me, but I am the exception to the rule with rather expensive tastes in audio equipment--both home and auto. To most, this probably isn't all that important. I mean, come on--if you're looking for perfect stereo imaging, look towards an expensive HOME audio setup. Stereo imaging has suffered ever since the first guy put speakers in a car, b/c the damn steering wheel isn't in the center of the damn car!!!! So, then, smart people began kickpanel installs, in part because this minimizes the difference in path lengths between the right and left stereo signals--better, but not perfect. So, if you demand audiophile IMAGING in your car, you better have a certain Eclipse or Alpine headunit--otherwise, you aint got it!

3) OK, so are there any advantages to rear speakers in your car? Yup. First, if your aim is a multi-media install w/ video, then the rear speakers are essential to surround sound processing, which you may want for all the cool special effect sounds and stuff in movies. Second, if you have rear seats (not the Z, but other cars do), ypur rear passengers may appreciate the rear speakers, especially if the front speakers aren't able to present a soundstage of magnitude sufficient to reach the rear seats. Third, if you have a kickpanel install AND the aforementioned digital time-delay signal processing, then the rear speakers can actually improve the imaging, by "lifting" the sound stage. A notorious side-effect of kickpanel installations is that they sometimes sound like the music is coming from the floor. Not always, but sometimes. Sometimes, a few well placed drivers (speakers) can "raise" the sound stage. This comes from years of listening to sound systems in cars. Ok, that's it . . . just my $0.02. Reading this Nizl or Gonzales?

Anyone2u

iTrader: (1)

Great article (see link above), but it appears to be a little dated (1995 Honda Civic, not a mention of time correction, etc.). Whether you agree with it or not, DVD players in cars are becoming more common. And with DVDs came a nice "new" technology called "Surround Sound". First you had Dolby Surround, then Pro-Logic , then Dolby Digital 5.1, then DTS, then Dolby Digital EX then...well here's a brief history of Surround Sound.

There was a time when "stereos" (for lack of a better word) had one speaker (mono), then two MONO speakers, then two stereo speakers and then quadraphonic sound ...oops, well everyone makes mistakes! But it does appear that DVD and surround sound is here to stay and with the advent of DVD-audio (remember you want the best sound, right?) it doesn't seem logical to limit yourself to just a stereo sound with "multi-channel" audio already here. Embrace technology, don't curse it.

People ask me why I am having a DVD player installed in my car. Obviously it doesn't make any sense to watch a movie while driving, although with a movie like Caddyshack, you really don't have to watch the movie! But the main reason is because of all the "music" dvds that I own (I own about 2500 dvds with ~300 of them music). Listen to the Talking Heads "Stop Making Sense" DVD or Underworld's "Live, Everything Everything" and you might reconsider what you install (or don't install) in your car.

By the way, when listening to regular (stereo) CDs I agree that you really don't need the rear speakers, but a little ambiance probably won't hurt the sound either.

Edit: Damn, MSGARRET1 "snuck" his post in while I was composing my response (damn links) !

roberto350z

OK OK OK, yes DVD...Im sorry I didnt throw that disclaimer in before I started knockin the rear speakes. But I did think of that before hand !!

Also, Im not necessarily an imaging junkie myself...in fact the distance between the tweeter and door speaker is so great that perfect imaging is kinda hopeless...I am happy with that. But what Im MOST concerned with is the phenomenon of phase cancellation. Try showing yourself what this is by reversing the leads on any ONE of two home audio speakers and then crank it up. Holy ****...wheres the midbass? Then balance to a single side....hmmm bass has doubled eventhough there is one less speaker...

Having two speakers unequal in path length will cause funny phase problems. The most important thing to remember is that when you add rear speakers, you may actually be cancelling bass and other frequencies, while amplifying other frequencies, causing horrendously unbalanced sound.

on a side note. I am intrigued by the alpine with time correction. I will buy one immediately!!

ps. But I STILL wont add rear speakers. The stage is in FRONT

signed,
arrrghhhh, the front stage ****

Anyone2u

iTrader: (1)

I remember hearing ~20 years ago that the installer was the most important "component" for optimum sound. Now, with all of the features available (4 Channel Digital Time Correction, Adjustable Channel Delay, Subwoofer Level Control, etc) it would be pretty difficult to do it yourself. The guy that will be "tuning" my stereo (he's not the actual installer, but an audio engineer) said it would take him 1-2 days to set it up. He has literally been all over the world (just got back from Japan about a month ago) tuning and evaluating different systems in cars. Based on his recomendation, I went with the Alpine 7996 HU and PXA-H510 Processor and figure it will take me ~2 weeks to figure out how to change the station on the radio!

Since this is a discussion on rear speakers, I just got this picture in today on my installation which is now into week 4 or 5!!! The speakers are Boston Acoustics Z6 speakers/crossovers and Proseries Subs (8.5LF). It's getting close to being done!

DIGItonium

iTrader: (1)

Only sound up front? No way...

Something feels missing in the back everytime I drive.

Soooo... I swapped the 6.5 with MB Quart, and added a pair
of 6x9 MB Quart. I'll do the doors in the spring.

My taste for music is to have it fill the cabin, and let it
surround me with music.

Guitars are oooh sooo nice!!!!

roberto350z

what would you say if the guitar frequencies were bieing cancelled due to phase problems, leaving you with too much cymbal when you put new fronts in. Make sure to give both surround and front stage a try to reevaluate.

DiverDown

Since I'm not going for the DVD surround effect, I'm throwing a lot of stuff in there.

Alpine hu (can change timing for all speakers)
JL components in fabricated kick panels
JL 6.5's in the rear locations
JL 8 W3's in "form fitted" boxes behind the wheel wells which will not decrease cargo area. (W3's need small air space)
JL 300x2 amps

Not going for a "bumping" system but it should work nicely for Incubus and other music like that.

I'll post pics as I can.