TeesZ

Is you subwofer enclosure ported or sealed? Did you build it? If so, did you use a box designing program or just start cutting wood? If it is ported, your box may have a high resonate acoustic peak at low freq causeing you to have less acoustic output at higher bass freqs. A sealed box will provide a much smoother response and shuld make all freqs sound equal.

Shameless Plug: 3Sixty has 10 bands of EQ on the sub which will allow you to boost some trouble frequencies (note you may have to cut some low freqs to balance the response).

If some HF content becomes painfull, perhaps you are clipping these frequencies. Voices are a narrow band of the spectrum and usually its a specific freq that is the issue. With a 31-band EQ, I'm sure you can find that irritation and eliminate it.

Is 3Sixty overkill, probably not. If there are other solutions that do any of the following:

A) take up more space
b) require more time to install
c) are less flexibile is sytem design
d) are missing at least 1 3Sixty feature that you will use

than 3Sixty is not overkill. Several copntributors to this post expressed a feeling that this is overkill and is unnecessary but look at the cost compared to the cheapest (high fidelity) solution. Maybe a delta of a couple hundred bucks? Alos look what you have invested in your system already...you're contemplating adding a few hundred dollar soltuion to a system that probbaly cost thousands. Now if 3Sixty were $5,000 and you were adding it to fix a problem in a $500 setup, now then I'd call it OVERKILL.

bjr

Excellent points. Just buying a 2 channel 31-band EQ will cost $350+. When I saw finally how many features this thing has your point is well taken. Full EQ, delay, crossovers, aux input, etc. etc. all for retail $700. I 've not compared other items but that is a lot for the money.
What would round it out to be complete is to offer a version under $1k that included pink noise generator and RTA displays The trick would be to get it to interface to a good microphone and they require a power supply.

TeesZ

This is why I love my job...

Just know this, Rockford Reasearch and Development is always working

Dream

The enclosure is sealed. The Stealthbox is a custom-designed box sold by JL. It may be that the enclosure just isn't designed for my particular preferences.

Someone else told me that the highs problem might be clipping. Couldn't I just fix this by buying an amp with more power?

TeesZ

If the box is sealed then it may be the acoustic response in your car causing the peak-E-ness.

Clipping is caused by trying to get more output level than the amp can provide. Unfortuantely our ears dont work linearly so you can only notice a slight change wth a 1dB increase, a littlke more subtle with 2dB and at 3dB the sound is easily detected. 3dB ios twice the power so if your current amp is say 150W than you'll need to increase that to 300W in order to notice a [3dB] difference.

skyydiver

iTrader: (1)

Crutchfield has the best pricing that I have found so far on these units:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-G39652i...0&I=5753SIXTY1


$299 for the 360.1 and $599 for the 360.2

-J

bjr

So when the 3Sixty undoes the factory EQ what is the +/- dB that it is capable of correcting for? The web site states +/-10dB but I don't understand if that is for the automated undo or the EQ that I could adjust after? What is the real limitations on how much it can correct??

TeesZ

There is a total of +-10dB so if the OEM correction process cuts 1k by 3dB, you have The ability to further cut 7dB or boost up to +13dB.

antennahead

Tony, does the ability exist now, or possibly in the future, for the 360 to incorporate bluetooth for a cell phone interface; would be nice if it muted the audio and routed the phone call to the system.

John

bjr

So, then. In the Z, at 100Hz the factory (non Bose) HU has a built in digital high pass filter for cutting the bass to the wimpy factory speakers. From the testing I remember doing it is a steep filter. Looked like 3rd order (18dB/octave). So down at 25Hz you are already -36dB. How is the 3Sixty possibly going to correct for that?

I've told people here that I ended up with a decent system out of the factory HU but when the music calls for a rare note well below 40Hz there does seem to be something almost totally missing or at least not up to the proper volume level with the rest of the tune. It's frustrating that the music is still there but can't EQ it back up. I can't find any EQ system that can deal with the HU's TOTAL deficiencies. I am still happy with it because I don't worry about the stereo from day to day and it sounds good and balanced 98% of the time. I was looking into this again becuase the 360.1 is down to $200 on ebay but I'm not sure it would help me any better than what I have already done. My parametric EQ does +/-18dB so I think I have one advantage over the 3sixty in respect to the major flaw in the Z's HU. Too bad the lowest freq. I can EQ is 40Hz

Let me know what you think...

TeesZ

We are working on next generation models and we are continualy evaluating new technologies. We are a public company so thats all that I am allowed to say

TeesZ

Yea, in our cars the fronts do lose out on the lows. Fortunatley, the rears provide more of a full range response. When you are setting a 3Sixty up, it will ask if you would like to sum channels to provide you a full range response. Choose yes and you will get all the bass you are looking for including a dedicated subwoofer channel!

bjr

So are you saying that you know the rear speaker wires provide more of a full range response than the fronts? That would be awesome, I never thought to check that. If that is true I would have never guessed that on my own, the rear speakers suck compared to the fronts and I hate rear speakers so I've never paid any attention to them whatsoever. I'll be kicking myself for the rest of the year if that's all I had to do to get it right

And sorry but I don't understand where the summing is leading to. I know what summing is but not clear what the benefit here is. If you sum channels to create the sub channel is the unit capable of more of a +/-dB swing then??
Or are you able to play different tricks more easily in the software/settings with the upper part of the bass range then and balance it all out easier? Please fill me in and give me all the details, I'll be able to follow them Just not following what would be gained from summing right now... I am not lacking bass volume compared to the fronts- I am missing low bass extension becuase at 20Hz the response is probably down -40dB from where the level is at 100Hz and my eq can only bring it back up +18dB. So my lowest ocatve is still half as loud as the one above it.

BTW, I am already running a L and R to my bridged sub amp anyway. I don't know if the amp is really pulling the two together in bridged mode anyway but I know it doesn't hurt anything.

Dream

Wow, thread revival.

What are you listening to that has 20hz tones? If you lack frequency response below 40hz, you may want to check whether your subs can reproduce tones that low and whether you have a subsonic filter cutting out the lower frequencies.

bjr

I understand normal music doesn't hit down to 20Hz. 40Hz I know is a stretch too normally and may be a little exaggerated. That is probably why most of the time it sounds just right. My line converter does have a subsonic filter. My sub will play down at least to 25Hz-30Hz before it starts to become inaudible. Test tone CDs reveal that I am responding in the low 20s although at levels way below what they are at 30, 40, 50, 60 Hz.
I am generally happy with it until it can't perform. I knew it still wasn't perfect but did what I could with what I had. It just drops of SO QUICKLY below 40Hz or so it is disappointing from time to time.
What brought this up again is that my boss put a "system" in his car about the same time I did. He's been bragging about this one song he heard on XM that he likes just for the bass and bought it brought it in so we could check it out in mine and he could listen to his whenever he wants. After I heard the music in his car we were both expecting mine to blow us away. I was disappointed that his was hitting these very low notes at the right volume level and mine hit those notes as kind of in the background. You had to pay attention to even hear the note was in the music! It's all in my HU. I've patched a very nice CD player through my system before and it sounds better - correct even - imagine that! Thing is though unless there is a lot of low end stuff on the CD 90% of my music would have to be A/B compared between the HU and a nicer CD player to convince you something is missing. Pretty disappointing since he got a line converter for his Toyota CD player and upgraded the speakers and amps and threw in a 8" passive Bazooka that I sold him.
Music down to 20Hz or not - I and everyone else would want a true full range system if they could get it. It's not just about being able to crank up some crappy pop music once in awhile either. Any music benefits from components capable of full range response. My home theater sub is flat to 16Hz and it puts out whatever you want to listen to effortlessly. I just want clean full range sound in the car too. Once I learned about the HUs true lack of response I've always felt cheap that I didn't turn around and spend some money to fix it. As I looked this past week at the few specialized EQs on the market that reverse the factory EQ though I have serious doubts that they contain enough adjustment to take this huge bass filter back out of our HU. And I've never found a 31 band manual EQ that could handle it either.
I should have put an aftermarket HU in the car somewhere and put the controls in the visor or something. My car sits out too much for me to feel comfortable without that factory face sitting there to distract people.
Oh well it is what it is - and if someone else felt the same way I did about stealth looks I would still suggest that a good system can be built out of it. In fact I think I have told at least one person here that it would be OK - but you must do something about the built in factory EQ.

TeesZ

If 3Sixty needs more content that is available from yuor front channels, it will sum your front and rear so that it gets what it needs.

As for your comparison to your boss, it is likely you are comparing acoustic frequency repsponse rather than a voltage response. Every car has a different resonant frequency and thus a different sound. There is a lot of stuff going on in your system besides the Xover point that will cause your system to sound like it does and your boss' to sound like his.

bjr

So it can basically sum L and R and if needed add in rear inputs too. And then it can selectively use whatever range it needs, say 20-50Hz probably in this case and add the "normal" 10dB to it plus pull from the summing and maybe add in another 6dB or more? (L+R would be twice which is 3dB plus double that for adding in rear and you are at least at +6dB from the original 10dB?)

Yeah, I should just ignore these comparisons and do one final A/B with a home CD player and another freq. sweep with my final setup and see if I really have as much to complain about as I think I do. There are so many stupid peaks and valleys for resonance in a car it is rediculous.

Let me know if I am thinking right on the summing...
thanks again