Focal 165 VR Opinions
03-08-2008, 09:17 AM
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Focal 165 VR Opinions
So I was at the store getting my Avic-D3 installed, when the Diamond s600s set peaked my interest. After asking about them, the guy at the store steered me in the direction of the Focal 165 VR's. Now, I've heard and I'm sure everyone else has heard the typical bright(IMO) tweeters from Focal, but he said that these tweeters are new, and tend to sound a bit more mellow than the typical Focal tweets. After hearing them on the sound board, he was right. Sounded pretty decent!
I couldn't find much information from any US Focal sites, since all there seems to be in the market here are the VRS (slims). My needs for a component set are soft tweets, and good midbass(which I know depends heavily on the install). I WON'T be adding a sub, so the midbass is a pretty important one. Also will be installing in the factory door locations, spacers are okay.. I know, it's not optimal, but I need to keep it looking as factory as possible. The tweets I'm alot more flexible in mounting locations, so not too worried about that. My concern is that the freq range on these only go down 80hz.
Anyone have experience with these new VR components? I wanted to see if anyone has some in-car experience with them, and not just from the sound board.
I couldn't find much information from any US Focal sites, since all there seems to be in the market here are the VRS (slims). My needs for a component set are soft tweets, and good midbass(which I know depends heavily on the install). I WON'T be adding a sub, so the midbass is a pretty important one. Also will be installing in the factory door locations, spacers are okay.. I know, it's not optimal, but I need to keep it looking as factory as possible. The tweets I'm alot more flexible in mounting locations, so not too worried about that. My concern is that the freq range on these only go down 80hz.
Anyone have experience with these new VR components? I wanted to see if anyone has some in-car experience with them, and not just from the sound board.
03-08-2008, 09:26 AM
#2
did he have diamonds in the store that you could compare them? sometimes audio dealers will stray you away from a product if they don't carry it.. obviously because they can't make a sale on it.. or sometimes they get special kickbacks for moving more volume of a certain product..
i would say the best thing is for you to listen to them both.. then go back to him and tell him to give you the Focal's at the same price as the diamonds
i would say the best thing is for you to listen to them both.. then go back to him and tell him to give you the Focal's at the same price as the diamonds
03-08-2008, 11:15 AM
#3
i have heard it on a few occasions...
my take:
1. its not a bad speaker, though if you are truly looking for soft tweets, you should look elsewhere. IMO, stuff like DLS, Seas, Morel, have much softer tweets. the metal dome tweets on the focals are a little more forward.
2. i am not sure why they call these slim mount, if i recall, they carry a mounting depth of well over 2" and have a relatively large motor...
tyen again, i am not a real fan of hte diamond stuff either, so its hard for me to say which one i would choose out of those.
though, keep in mind, if you are looking for something that sounds good, its pointless not having a sub. a good aftermarket component in the 6.5" range is designed to go from say 70-80hz and up, slightly lower in certain kind of applications, but they are not bass speakers. midbass only.
so i find it kind of wierd to go for any of these good speakres without thinking about adding a sub, as the entire thing would sound okay from 70-80hz up and then nothing under neath it. very dry and like listneing to a 10 dolla rradio shack box interms of low end.
if you run them full range, it will speed up the deterioration of the speaker awfully fast not to mention making it sound horrible.
if you want your system to truly sound good, a sub of some type of handle hte subbass part is a must...without it, i compare it to trying to build a track racer out of your Z without even thinking about touching the suspension...you can slap the best performance upgrades and the best tires on there, but in the end, yo uwill still be bottlenecked.
b
my take:
1. its not a bad speaker, though if you are truly looking for soft tweets, you should look elsewhere. IMO, stuff like DLS, Seas, Morel, have much softer tweets. the metal dome tweets on the focals are a little more forward.
2. i am not sure why they call these slim mount, if i recall, they carry a mounting depth of well over 2" and have a relatively large motor...
tyen again, i am not a real fan of hte diamond stuff either, so its hard for me to say which one i would choose out of those.
though, keep in mind, if you are looking for something that sounds good, its pointless not having a sub. a good aftermarket component in the 6.5" range is designed to go from say 70-80hz and up, slightly lower in certain kind of applications, but they are not bass speakers. midbass only.
so i find it kind of wierd to go for any of these good speakres without thinking about adding a sub, as the entire thing would sound okay from 70-80hz up and then nothing under neath it. very dry and like listneing to a 10 dolla rradio shack box interms of low end.
if you run them full range, it will speed up the deterioration of the speaker awfully fast not to mention making it sound horrible.
if you want your system to truly sound good, a sub of some type of handle hte subbass part is a must...without it, i compare it to trying to build a track racer out of your Z without even thinking about touching the suspension...you can slap the best performance upgrades and the best tires on there, but in the end, yo uwill still be bottlenecked.
b
03-08-2008, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by doug
did he have diamonds in the store that you could compare them? sometimes audio dealers will stray you away from a product if they don't carry it.. obviously because they can't make a sale on it.. or sometimes they get special kickbacks for moving more volume of a certain product..
i would say the best thing is for you to listen to them both.. then go back to him and tell him to give you the Focal's at the same price as the diamonds
i would say the best thing is for you to listen to them both.. then go back to him and tell him to give you the Focal's at the same price as the diamonds
03-08-2008, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 16psibrick
i have heard it on a few occasions...
my take:
1. its not a bad speaker, though if you are truly looking for soft tweets, you should look elsewhere. IMO, stuff like DLS, Seas, Morel, have much softer tweets. the metal dome tweets on the focals are a little more forward.
2. i am not sure why they call these slim mount, if i recall, they carry a mounting depth of well over 2" and have a relatively large motor...
tyen again, i am not a real fan of hte diamond stuff either, so its hard for me to say which one i would choose out of those.
though, keep in mind, if you are looking for something that sounds good, its pointless not having a sub. a good aftermarket component in the 6.5" range is designed to go from say 70-80hz and up, slightly lower in certain kind of applications, but they are not bass speakers. midbass only.
so i find it kind of wierd to go for any of these good speakres without thinking about adding a sub, as the entire thing would sound okay from 70-80hz up and then nothing under neath it. very dry and like listneing to a 10 dolla rradio shack box interms of low end.
if you run them full range, it will speed up the deterioration of the speaker awfully fast not to mention making it sound horrible.
if you want your system to truly sound good, a sub of some type of handle hte subbass part is a must...without it, i compare it to trying to build a track racer out of your Z without even thinking about touching the suspension...you can slap the best performance upgrades and the best tires on there, but in the end, yo uwill still be bottlenecked.
b
my take:
1. its not a bad speaker, though if you are truly looking for soft tweets, you should look elsewhere. IMO, stuff like DLS, Seas, Morel, have much softer tweets. the metal dome tweets on the focals are a little more forward.
2. i am not sure why they call these slim mount, if i recall, they carry a mounting depth of well over 2" and have a relatively large motor...
tyen again, i am not a real fan of hte diamond stuff either, so its hard for me to say which one i would choose out of those.
though, keep in mind, if you are looking for something that sounds good, its pointless not having a sub. a good aftermarket component in the 6.5" range is designed to go from say 70-80hz and up, slightly lower in certain kind of applications, but they are not bass speakers. midbass only.
so i find it kind of wierd to go for any of these good speakres without thinking about adding a sub, as the entire thing would sound okay from 70-80hz up and then nothing under neath it. very dry and like listneing to a 10 dolla rradio shack box interms of low end.
if you run them full range, it will speed up the deterioration of the speaker awfully fast not to mention making it sound horrible.
if you want your system to truly sound good, a sub of some type of handle hte subbass part is a must...without it, i compare it to trying to build a track racer out of your Z without even thinking about touching the suspension...you can slap the best performance upgrades and the best tires on there, but in the end, yo uwill still be bottlenecked.
b
I'm definitely dying to listen to more brands of speakers. Going to have to do alot more research and calling around to the local dealers.
03-08-2008, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 16psibrick
shoul do a search by me on why i think demoing speakres is usually a waste of time 
its in one of the posts...recently
b
its in one of the posts...recently b
I looked up the dealer list on DLS's site, and was surprised to see that the place I went to was actually a dealer. Didn't see any DLS products tho in store tho
EDIT: Wow, after re-reading your post I think I may seriously consider just buying sets from you. Too bad you're not in so cal to make things easier! haha
Last edited by sosojeffcc; 03-08-2008 at 02:13 PM.
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03-08-2008, 02:11 PM
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the post from 16psibrick if anyone's interested....
Originally Posted by 16psibrick
this is my opinion only:
listening to "auditioning" speakers, I htink is way over rated IMO.
as a former shop owner i can tell you that there are so many ways to make one set of speaker sound better than another if thats hte brand they want to push.
in general:
1. listening to stuff ont he sound board in a room means nothing, cars are so different interms of being an acoustic environment, often, spekars that sound good, nice and detailed and not harsh in a room, will scream your ears off in a car, where as spekares that sound almost dull in a room, comes alive in a car.
2. often, shops hook different amps to different speakres and set things differently on the board, say they want to push speaker A, though speaker B may acutally sound better, they would set the settings on spekaer A so it relaly sounds good to its postential on the board, and they dont do the same on B...
3. listening to stuff in demo cars is slightly better, but by no means indicative of how it would sound in your car.
different cars sound differently, also, different installation techniques, different tuning and euqipment used, all have a huge factor in how a set car sound.
about the only way you can tell for sure, is if you listen to a car that has an almost identical interior, using equipment and tuning thats going to be identical, if not very similar to your own install...then...only then, can you get a more accurate idea of what htings sound like.
i myself, after a while, dont ever recommend people to listen to car speakres in a sound board, and often, more or less, when they hear my car, iwlll try my best to point out the differences that their install will sound like.
but in the end, the ONLY way of truly learning how a speaker would sound for YOU, is to get the set, and listen to it in your own car.
of course, this sounds a bit...unreasonably expensive if you arent in the field of mobile electronics, but its unfortuatnely the truth...and unlike say perfroamnce parts in a car, where they have true dyno readings that can justify gains on the same vehicle, SQ is so subjective that it doenst mean a lot.
this is why i offer something for guys on this forum to try out brands that i carry and consider SQ oriented. that is, if you buy a set from me and install it in the manner i recommend, and arent happy with the results, i offer you a return and full refund within a two weeks period after hte speakres have been installed...so its more or less a risk free set up.
about a dozen people have taken advantage of this offer over the past coupla years, nad i have never had a return
so...if you are intersted in trying out hte DLS or Seas sets, let me know...
b
listening to "auditioning" speakers, I htink is way over rated IMO.
as a former shop owner i can tell you that there are so many ways to make one set of speaker sound better than another if thats hte brand they want to push.
in general:
1. listening to stuff ont he sound board in a room means nothing, cars are so different interms of being an acoustic environment, often, spekars that sound good, nice and detailed and not harsh in a room, will scream your ears off in a car, where as spekares that sound almost dull in a room, comes alive in a car.
2. often, shops hook different amps to different speakres and set things differently on the board, say they want to push speaker A, though speaker B may acutally sound better, they would set the settings on spekaer A so it relaly sounds good to its postential on the board, and they dont do the same on B...
3. listening to stuff in demo cars is slightly better, but by no means indicative of how it would sound in your car.
different cars sound differently, also, different installation techniques, different tuning and euqipment used, all have a huge factor in how a set car sound.
about the only way you can tell for sure, is if you listen to a car that has an almost identical interior, using equipment and tuning thats going to be identical, if not very similar to your own install...then...only then, can you get a more accurate idea of what htings sound like.
i myself, after a while, dont ever recommend people to listen to car speakres in a sound board, and often, more or less, when they hear my car, iwlll try my best to point out the differences that their install will sound like.
but in the end, the ONLY way of truly learning how a speaker would sound for YOU, is to get the set, and listen to it in your own car.
of course, this sounds a bit...unreasonably expensive if you arent in the field of mobile electronics, but its unfortuatnely the truth...and unlike say perfroamnce parts in a car, where they have true dyno readings that can justify gains on the same vehicle, SQ is so subjective that it doenst mean a lot.
this is why i offer something for guys on this forum to try out brands that i carry and consider SQ oriented. that is, if you buy a set from me and install it in the manner i recommend, and arent happy with the results, i offer you a return and full refund within a two weeks period after hte speakres have been installed...so its more or less a risk free set up.
about a dozen people have taken advantage of this offer over the past coupla years, nad i have never had a return
so...if you are intersted in trying out hte DLS or Seas sets, let me know...
b
03-08-2008, 03:59 PM
#9
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I have the older model Focal 165 V so I cannot tell you about the improvements you mention in the new Focal 165 VR (with that said, maybe I shouldn’t be offering any comments ). What I can tell you is that even the older model is a very good speaker. Of course speaker comparisons are very subjective, and therefore, any comment is arguable (see all the good posts on this thread to understand this).
I do agree that the Focal tweeters could be interpreted as “harsh,” but that can be tamed by mounting and direction. For example, I mounted the tweeters in the A-pillar and directed the sound forward towards and bouncing-off the windshield. That seems to soften the tweeters while directing the sound effectively towards the car’s center providing better staging for both the driver and the passenger.
The schematic
A photo showing the tweeter position and the “bounce”
Your SubW comments… I have pretty much the same problem. I need all of the cargo space in the Z and cannot locate a good position for a SubW. But, coaxing good low-range from the Focals’ midrange doesn’t work. Modern recordings expect SubW capability, and attempting delivery through a midrange doesn’t provide the best sound (even with great component speakers). Truthfully I’m not sure how to handle this, but I know that expecting a midrange to deliver sound meant for a SubW won’t provide the sound I want.
Also... my Focal midranges are mounted in the stock door position, and this makes the challenge (delivering great sound) even more difficult.
--Spike
). What I can tell you is that even the older model is a very good speaker. Of course speaker comparisons are very subjective, and therefore, any comment is arguable (see all the good posts on this thread to understand this).I do agree that the Focal tweeters could be interpreted as “harsh,” but that can be tamed by mounting and direction. For example, I mounted the tweeters in the A-pillar and directed the sound forward towards and bouncing-off the windshield. That seems to soften the tweeters while directing the sound effectively towards the car’s center providing better staging for both the driver and the passenger.
The schematic
A photo showing the tweeter position and the “bounce”
Your SubW comments… I have pretty much the same problem. I need all of the cargo space in the Z and cannot locate a good position for a SubW. But, coaxing good low-range from the Focals’ midrange doesn’t work. Modern recordings expect SubW capability, and attempting delivery through a midrange doesn’t provide the best sound (even with great component speakers). Truthfully I’m not sure how to handle this, but I know that expecting a midrange to deliver sound meant for a SubW won’t provide the sound I want.
Also... my Focal midranges are mounted in the stock door position, and this makes the challenge (delivering great sound) even more difficult.
--Spike
03-08-2008, 04:04 PM
#10
well, the best is to find local car audio guys, who run specific spekares and have it tuned right, but again, its hard to make an exact judgement unless you have a very similar car and plan to run a very simillar set up..
so my theory, is always just listen to some advice from guys with experience and start trying, get a set in, and listen to it,play with it, if you are happy, stick wtih it, if not, sell it and try sometihng else, i know its costly, but this way, you gain a first hand knowledge of how spekars sound that means milion times more than listening or reading others opinion s
this is why I offer the money back gurantee on my speakres coupled with kicks, it gives you the opportunity to try out stuff that i believe works well, with less financial risk
b
so my theory, is always just listen to some advice from guys with experience and start trying, get a set in, and listen to it,play with it, if you are happy, stick wtih it, if not, sell it and try sometihng else, i know its costly, but this way, you gain a first hand knowledge of how spekars sound that means milion times more than listening or reading others opinion s
this is why I offer the money back gurantee on my speakres coupled with kicks, it gives you the opportunity to try out stuff that i believe works well, with less financial risk
b
03-08-2008, 05:28 PM
#11
New Member
Bing… That is good advice.
Something else… Unfortunately the present economic slide is claiming victims in my area (I’m located in Minneapolis, MN). We only had two high-end installer shops here; one closed late last year, and the other is closing this month. The shop closing this month has done most of my CES installation, and I’m sad to see them go; I no longer have an option for a high-end installer.
The CES product supplier and installer in my area will now be BestBuy or CircuitCity. Of course either of these offers the best price on car A/V devices, but I wonder if they are able to do tailored and high-end installations.
I want to do some stuff with my Z, but now am not sure where to take the car.
--Spike
Something else… Unfortunately the present economic slide is claiming victims in my area (I’m located in Minneapolis, MN). We only had two high-end installer shops here; one closed late last year, and the other is closing this month. The shop closing this month has done most of my CES installation, and I’m sad to see them go; I no longer have an option for a high-end installer.
The CES product supplier and installer in my area will now be BestBuy or CircuitCity. Of course either of these offers the best price on car A/V devices, but I wonder if they are able to do tailored and high-end installations.
I want to do some stuff with my Z, but now am not sure where to take the car.
--Spike
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