seank426

iTrader: (1)

So I changed my mind once again from JL 10w6v2 to Elemental Designs e5.10. I was planning on getting a single e5.10 in a sealed box. My installer is very much encouraging me get 2 8's instead however. Which would hit harder? I heard two 10" P2 Fosgate subs in his bmw 535i and they honestly didn't seem to hit that hard so I was thinking of maybe two 10's but thought that might be a bit overboard. I know this is a personal opinion sort of thing but appreciate any input.

Sean

Peak350

iTrader: (6)

While the size of the cone has some role in how hard subs hit, ported vs sealed, and the power handling of the sub can make a huge difference.

I have a P3.0 Mmats 10" and with the windows down, bass turned up, good bass track, can run myself out of the car it gets SOOO loud.

It completely drowns everything if I don't keep it gained down. What are your goals in terms of volume, dynamics, etc.

8"s can hit hard, but by the same token are a much tighter less overpowering bass.

seank426

iTrader: (1)

I am trying to focus more on SQ as I usually don't blare my music incredibly loud. I would like enough bass so that I don't have it turned all the way up 24/7 but in times of either wanting it for certain songs or just showing off to friends be able to turn it up and really hit hard. I still don't understand the whole ohm/wiring thing. If I got 2 10" dual 2 ohm subs. what would my ohm options be for running those, parallel vs series?

seank426

iTrader: (1)

Tryed googling to figure it out, correct me if I'm wrong but 2 2ohm speakers wired in parallel would be .5ohm and in series 8ohm. Meaning It would be impossible to find a good amp to power these. They might make this sub in a 4ohm version, would that mean with 2 of them in parallel it would be 1ohm which is doable?

Peak350

iTrader: (6)

Each sub can be run in parallel or in series (assuming dual voicecoils).

For Parallel you can "half" the impedance (only for dual's).

For Series you add them (double).

So dual 2 ohms gives you the options of 2x2 ohm, 1x4 ohm, or 1x1 ohm.

You can wire the two subs then in parallel or series from one another after picking the previous wiring option, giving you the possibility of 4x2 ohm, 2x4 ohm, 2x1 ohm, 1x8 ohm, or 1x2 ohm.

If you then have a once channel amp you have to get your options down to 1 channel, so you can do 1x.5 ohm, 1x2 ohm, or 1x8 ohm.

Most amps aren't stable at .5 ohms, so given those options, you'd want to wire the voicecoils in series to create an effective 4 ohm sub (pair) and then wire the subs in parallel to one another, creating a system impedance of 2 ohms.

I know that probably seems confusing, let me know if you get stuck.

My preference is to the sound of 10" subs. 12" subs have a slightly muddy hit, 10"s sound strong and tight, 8"s just get too small for me and it takes more to get volume from them. Although I've seen 4 RE 8"s producing 145+ db before, the setup was very well laid out (ported enclosures firing into a central area which was partially enclosed to resonate at around the ports tuning frequency. The cabin gain on the system was incredible.

seank426

iTrader: (1)

I don't no if it would be worth it then, 2 10's over 1? If I got two I would have to get a NINe.1x which would be 900w x 1rms @ 2ohms. Or buy 2 NINe.2x's for the subs and have a total of 3 NINe.2x's. Is a second 10" going to add that much bass over a single 10"?

Btw thanks peak think this is the second or third thread of mine you've been a lot of held in

Peak350

iTrader: (6)

No problem, I just wish I knew more.

I used to hang around the SPL guys in high school, and am still learning the SQ side of things now.

Basically what I've learned (and this is a primitive view of it), is that with subs you have a number of things to look at. First decide on what type of sound you want, for SQ you usually want tight, accurate "flat" (in terms of reproduction curve) bass. With a sealed box you don't have a sudden buildup or roll-off point, and you have a tighter bass response at any given volume (generally).

With a ported box you can double the output of the system (which is only a 3 db increase) by simply adding a port. At the peak loading points (tuning of the port and double frequency of the port) the sub actually moves very little and nearly all the sound comes from the port. As a result port aiming becomes somewhat critical (needs to be next to sub face and parallel in axis) and the sub is not going to fail mechanically, but from overheating (if it fails). This suited me as the I literally blew a cone off my first sub not running too much power (or clipping), but simply running a bit large of a box (per specs from Mmats). Going to a tuned ported box I picked up a lot of volume and prevent the sub from facing extreme excursion (as I tend to like a lot of bass on occasion).

Some subs are more suited to sealed vs ported enclosures. My sub tends to like the ported box better, many high end subs prefer to live in a sealed box, ask the professionals, the guys who sell these things know what they react well to.

Once you've determined what you want from your enclosure (guessing sealed), you pick a target power level. Likely 500 watts would be plenty for your bass needs. Find a similar sized car with a single 10" 500 sealed sub, then find a sub that will handle 500w RMS and likes to be mounted in a sealed enclosure (meaning it handles excursion well).

My preference is a single 10" sub, but listening to how different subs sound will tell you more than what I can on here.

Peak350

iTrader: (6)

I will add, the second 10 doubles your cone area, which allows you to move more air, so it is more effective and putting the power out instead of just making heat on the voicecoil, so sometimes 2 10's is a much better option, I just like having one massive 10 out of personal preference.

doug

iTrader: (5)

1 ID Max 10"

/thread

seank426

iTrader: (1)

Was looking at that awhile ago decided on a JL10w6v and then a eD e5.10

Peak350

iTrader: (6)

I'm like to hear one of the ID Max subs, looks like a really slick design.

doug

iTrader: (5)

bring money in hand.. you will buy it on spot

Peak350

iTrader: (6)

I'm not unhappy with my sub by any stretch. The music I listen to sounds good on it. That said, I hear what you're saying.

35oZephyR

iTrader: (4)

A buddy hooked me up with a regular 10" Image Dynamics. I want an iD Max now, i love these subs.

Electrodynamic

The size of the drivers cone has nothing to do with how fast or tight the response is going to be. The quickness of a subwoofer system has to do with the system as a whole (the subwoofer and the size and type of enclosure and how well it integrates with the acoustics of the vehicle), and also the inductance of the subwoofer being the major contributor to how fast a speaker can react to signal changes - i.e. how "fast" it is.

As a general rule, two slightly smaller drivers will have as much output as one slightly larger driver. So if you have two 8's, they will be roughly as loud as a single 10. Two 10's will have about the same amount of output as one 12. This is a rough generalization, so don't look too far into it. But when you keep the enclosure type the same, the enclosure size within limits, and amount of overall power the same, it becomes a very solid rule of thumb.

With a 350z, I would be slightly worried about weight. I read where someone likes big massive 10's, but I don't understand why. Why would you want a 50 lb subwoofer and box in a sports car? Wouldn't it be a lot more attractive to have a 30 lb subwoofer system that had as much output (if not more output) and was cleaner, tighter, and deeper, than a massive sealed or ported 10"? With a small amount of shallow'ish 12" drivers out there that are decently shallow and very lightweight, they offer a lot of advantages over going with a heavy, power-hungry, 10" sub.

In the bottom two octaves of the sound spectrum (20-80 Hz) you gain roughly 12 dB/octave every octave below 80 Hz. A driver in an alignment where the F3 is between 40 Hz and 50 Hz works out along with the cabin gain that you have with the subwoofer system being inside the car to achieve a flat response down to 20 Hz without too much of a problem. Couple that with easier installations due to the shallow'ish nature of said subwoofers and the fact that they're about 15-20 lbs lighter than a beastly 10" subwoofer and you now have a subwoofer system that won't throw off the balance of your cars nearly as bad.

Peak350

iTrader: (6)

I ran the 10" because of my initial install location not being able to fit a 12". I had a smaller single 12" in my last car and it was nice.

I have my box removable, anytime I do something performance oriented I switch off my remote in signal (toggle switch) and pull the box.