I just spent the last 15minutes checking out those wires. It's bundled tight,.. but I got the wrap off,.. and it's not going to be bad at all. Maybe we're different with those wires,.. but the bundle is very accessible and I already pulled the speaker wires,.. piece of cake!

This one I'm just going to have to say is not bad at all,.. When it's in visual and hands reach,... I can handle bundles of wires -- Remember that's what I do all week is work with bundles of wires just like that in network racks, in servers and client computers I build of all sizes. Nothing to it,.. maybe cause I've been dealing with things just like that for 15 years now.

But the rest you were right about. I'll give you that.

 

Hi Pass = between 70-120 Hz
Low Pass = same as above
Sub Sonic = 20-30 Hz

The high pass protects your mids from trying to play too much bass they were never meant for. They will distort and sound terrible if you feed them anything lower then about 60 Hz. In most vehicles with 6.5" up front 80-90 Hz is ideal.

For the sub: adjust so that you maintain front sound stage, in other words you don't want vocals being output by the sub. Turn the dial till the sub blends in with the fronts and seems to "disappear". You might need to play with the gain too. Some people like a little overlap so they'll run 80 hi with 120 low. However due to cabin gain you are often better with a slight underlap - say 90 high with 70 low, this gets rid of the "boooomy" sound and will clean up the woofer's output (snappy, tight, fast bass). Keep in mind the crossover is not a wall, its a slope, thus a slight underlap will actually generate a smoother response overall.

The sub sonic filter cuts out frequencies below what the sub can handle, its more helpful with ported/vented (tuned) enclosures. Generally under 30 Hz is difficult to reproduce well without a big box, lots of subs and a ton of power. I'd start off at 20 Hz and turn it up until you feel you've lost too much on the bottom end. Depending on your listening habits you might not care about that last octave of sound and be happy with it around 35 Hz. Similar to the high pass the less sound you feel your sub the sharper or snappier it will sound. For me I want ALL my bass and thus turn OFF any subsonic filters

If you can run both filters at the same time (bandpass) then I would do that for the rear speakers. This will help with the sound stage as higher frequencies (treble) are very directional. Personally I didn't bother with rears as the Z is SO small and they are SO close your ears it kill the sound stage. For sure you'll have to fade them way down unless you like that fake "surround" sound effect

I use a wide range of good, familiar music during my setup... test tones are only good if you got an RTA analyzer.

 

Thanks.

That's pretty much what I had in mind after all the reading I've done the last 3-4 weeks.

I talked with the fabricator at SRQ customs about the frequencies for the sub.. He said turn the Subsonic to 20hz (which is the lowest setting) and leave it for this application.

He, as most of what I've read.. said to run Low and highpass at 80hz (I read anywhere between 80-100hz).

Thanks. Yup the idea here for me is to keep the sounds the sub was designed to carry signaled to the sub, and sub alone. Then the rest to the Mids (and the pass. Crossovers with the speakers will keep the dangerous "mids and lows" out of the tweeters" by design.)

This amp's cross-overs are not user friendly..



Meaning it has min value and max value.. and is a philips head adjustment -- The philips head doesn't line up with any of the "points of the star" at the min nor does it line up at the max. Further, the screw/adjustment turns less than 270 degree's (or whatever it would be for full range from that Min spot to max spot). So trying to "guesstimate" approx. where X frequency is on the amp X-over is not easy whatsoever.

I'v done some number crunching,.. and the sub's x-over has a min of 40hz, and max of 220hz... So the mid point is 130hz,.. So with the math about 40 percent of full adjustment range will run around 91hz (give or take). So somewhere in that range will be a good spot to start, for sub Low pass.

I'm after losing the "Boom" and after just the tight "snappy" bass. So I'll heed that advice to run closer to an underlap than an overlap.

Also I've read about the octave dB shifts a Cross-over actually operates as.. It's not an on/off switch (which admittidly until recently I thought of it as..) apparently it simply attenuates the signal when it reaches the point it's set at.

Most regular people have told me to run the X-overs on the amp.. but a few people that I've spoken to that are what I'd refer to as "Master" audiophiles, fabricators, competition winners that have their own companies etc.. Have told me to Run the X-over on my AVH-P4100DVD for anything I can turn OFF on the amp. In my case I can turn the highpass to FULL (which would be "off") allowing all frequencies through for the Front.. But the rear setting (while the amp is supposed to, and manual states it does, have a FULL setting for rear.. it does not.. and sub does not have a FULL either). So I believe I'm going to turn Fronts x-over on the amp to FULL,.. set my Headunit X-over for the front-stage to something like 100hz or so.. Then the rest will be off amp.

They told me not to run both amp and headunit x-overs together. So I don't know what to think about your advice to do so. They didn't happen to so it would cause harm, they just said pick one or the other basically.

Yeah.. most people want that Boomy sound.. and is why they get a sub or subs... Many grab subs before anything else , even with factory speakers and headunit.. where they have no frontstage left and 95% Boom and 5% hard to make out rest of the audio spectrum. -- I am in the minority and want just a nice snappy punch that is not boomy and really not overly loud. My volume levels will be reasonable.. My headunit goes to a max of 40 on volume,.. I listen to it at 7-12 on average to give you an idea (and that's with 2 factory speakers)

Both filters (Bandpass mode) are supposed to be an option on the amp switches.. it's on the freaking box lol.. but as you can see the amp doesn't have that option/switch. And I have to say PPI's technical support number is a joke. I called it yesterday afternoon, and got a receptionist who was nice.. and transferred me to tech. support. It went to a voicemail box -- I left a message. I called back a while later, and got her again and asked about their tech support. It's one guy, that guy.. and he is apparently "busy". As she gave me two emails to reach him. I emailed him about the misprints and lack of options on the amp and left a message with my cell and to call me back.. No phone call back (it's 3:43pm Thurs).. + 2 emails (same email to both addresses) -- and no response on email.

So while PPI makes good products, their Tech. Support is some Joe apparently who isn't overly concerned about things. Sort of surprised me, as PPI is a recognized brand in amps and their amps are good and were highly recommended to me by "audio geeks" if you will.

No matter.. long as this amp works in 5channel mode.. I can work around the screw up on the Crossover switches. Amp is supposed to have a 5CH option next to the ST-4CH option you see in that picture.. it doesn't, it has ST-4CH,.. and I'm sure the 4CH simply puts it in 5CH mode. As it has all the RCA inputs for SUB, Fronts, and Rears.. with the extra crossover for sub and subsonic.. it's not the wrong amp. The box picture on this amp shows the same "oversight" on the printing of switches .. so it's not that I got some bad amp,.. they were all produced this way.

I'm probably going to go hit a hardware store in a few hours and grab the wood, bolts, nuts, washers, pvc (for spacers on the amp "rack" thing I'm building) screws, carpet, and so on. May go ahead and start building that amp mount/rack I've designed to fit in the glove box to allow me to continue to use the glovebox with the amp in it, and covered with 1/2" piece of wood carpeted on top.

I'm using a 1/2" piece of wood on bottom I'm carpeting,.. then some 3 1/2" Carriage bolts that will run under the glove box plastic (drilling holes in it).. then run through that 1/2" wood, amp will go on top of it (with some 1/8" inch small spacers) and and 1/2" carpeted piece of wood on top .. Bolt will run through bottom of glove box, through wood, bottom and top (using 3/4" pvc painted black as spacers to hold the wood apart from the amp) running through this PVC,.. and out top, with some wing nuts (or regular nuts) holding it together on top. Should look fairly good carpeted and keep the amp with space for cooling and give me most of my glove box to store stuff.

I may forgo drilling bottom of glove box.. and just run some stick velcro on bottom of glove box and bottom of amp wood which will keep it in place,.. but not cause any holes to be drilled for when I sell this car. I've had good luck with industrial velcro holding things.

I figure I can grab some cardboard and make some molds of the glove box where the wood will go.. bring them to home depot and they cut wood free.. have them cut it out (to save me some time).. then check fit at home.. if it needs to be shaped up I can use my dremel to clean it up.. then spray 3M adhesive and run the black/grey carpet I buy tightly around it. (I've never done this before.. but seems easy enough).

Oh yeah.. the Guy who owns SRQ Customs who built my box told me when I'm adjusting things that I can unplug and replug RCA's while I'm doing it.. UNLESS I use a Pioneer headunit. He said if I have a pioneer headunit doing this often blows the Pre-amp and I'll end up with Whine in the system.

Glad he mentioned it.. cause I do indeed have a pioneer headunit.. So Ill have to be careful with that when I'm adjusting things..

It's this one AVH-P4100DVD




Thanks for all your help.

Thanks for the tips

 

PPI, like most car audio companies, including my once beloved HiFonics aren't what they used to be 'cause your right, that amp's crossover adjustments are a bit messy. Doesn't surprise me about customer support, they don't engineer or build these things in the USA anymore. Its ALL outsourced to Asia. Chances are whoever you get on the phone will just read the manual back to you, but I could be wrong, I called Alpine once and whoever answered WAS able to fix my problem right away. Back on topic...

Your fine running BOTH the headunit and amp crossovers. Remember the crossover is a filter with a slope, so you can combine them for a steeper or sharper cut off. Just remember after the sound has been filtered once you can't recover the cut frequencies, you can only cut further.

The nice thing about audio systems is they should be TUNED by the user. So use whatever *****/switches your the most comfortable with. In your case it does look like the radio will be easier to adjust then the amp. As long as you can high pass the mids and low pass the subs you'll be fine.

This guy's advice is good regarding the rear speakers: http://www.glasswolf.net/papers/rearfill.html
If you run a high pass on your radio then you COULD add a low pass on the the rears using the amp's crossover and thus create the bandpass yourself. Kind of a workaround due to the amp switches limitation.

Below is how I have my system setup, its just my way of thinking and not necessarily right or wrong.

I've got a Kicker XI 500.4, its a four channel bridgeable class D amp. I have it running in 3 channel mode, or stereo mixed mono: Right, Left and Sub (no rear). I use its built in crossovers to "bookend" the crossover from my Alpine Imprint system. I've got a 50 Hz high pass on my mids, thus they will always roll off sounds below 50 Hz regardless of the Imprint crossover setting. This is basically a safety measure to ensure even if I accidentally turned off the crossovers from my head unit and sent full range to the front speakers they would be protected from those low frequencies. Same goes for sub - its running 200 Hz low pass on the amp so their output is limited to sounds under 200 Hz. Now my REAL crossovers on Imprint processor (after auto tune) are at 80 Hz high pass (front), 60 Hz low pass (sub). Alpine recommends running full range on the amp and letting the Imprint system work its magic, but I wanted to be safe

 

Yeah.. the whole car audio industry has been hit super hard the last 5-8 years.. only a few shops left in this city and it's the biggest one in the state. Recession probably finished many of them off. The demand didn't go anywhere,.. but it's not a huge booming business (mid to high end car audio) exclusively.. Even the circuit cities.. Tweeter and those big box stores shut down.

But prices were high before much less now. So got the same essential prices from the shops I went to.. like I've said,.. that prompted me to do even more research and start buying everything myself.

Just went to a hardware store to get basically everything else I'd need to do this install this weekend,.. and wow,.. I ended up with a $150 bill .. but didn't buy anything I didn't need and/or would only use "once" so to speak.

Some of that cost was in the wood and carpeting. Didn't really anticipate carpet being so high.. so probably 40-50 of that was just the wood and carpet for the amp rack I'm going to build inside the glovebox.. I measured it out, and frankly.. when I'm done I'll be lucky to have half the glovebox space left.. but oh well.. (unless I just did the bottom and left amp exposed on top,.. instead of completing the rack with a carpeted and spaced top (To put into perspective.. I am running 4" carriage bolts from bottom of first piece of wood to top piece.. Amp is 2" tall. I am putting 1/4" nylon spacers below the amp on each screw in.. just to give it some space underneath to breath. Even though this is a class D amp that also has an internal fan .. This amp would run fine stuck under the seat.. but I want access and it to be in a better "cooling location" so to speak. Was part of the decision to go from A/B to D class.. Learned that it's about brand and how they are built,.. and that Class D are every bit as good as an A/B in quality of sound/output.. just can't buy a piece of crap. The A/B amp I was going for would have given me literally 1/4" space on each side of the glove box.. this class D is going to give 4" minimum on each side.. much smaller (not a tiny amp.. it's still a 900w 5-channel.. but dimensions are much more reasonable).

The AMP says "Built in China" on it.. so yeah, it's outsourced. There are worse build locations than China though.. believe it or not .. and it's really all about the engineering and quality of components used inside that makes an amp "good" or a piece of crap.

Makes sense. Good to know..

I agree. Everyone who owns an amp powered stereo , esp. with a sub.. should learn this stuff.. most don't of course and that's ok. But,.. being able to "tune" it yourself really gives you a HUGE advantage on making what YOU will be listening to sound the way you want it to. Instead of having Bestbuy or something set the gains/xovers and you get in it and , of course, it's going to sound better than what you had before.. but the potential is probably not tapped for YOUR ears.

Haven't read the link.. I immediately post replies when I check the forum -- But I will check it out for sure.

Yes, the goal right now , today, before install is to run high pass off Headunit and Low pass off amp simply due to what I said before.. the low pass doesn't seem to be able to be turned "OFF, or to FULL".. so I have on choice but to use the amp whether I like it or not.

I was going to run a "2.1" setup basically.. off a 4channel.. bridging channel 3/4 for the sub.. But at the last second I found this 900.5 , 5 channel.. and glanced over at these MB Quarts I have on my desk and said.. why not.. it's $20 more.. let's try them out see what happens. I may end up with 2.1 off the 5 channel anyways.. Which if so.. will give me an insane amount of headroom on the speakers..

If I DO end up cutting the rears in the end.. I'll be able to run 230Watts to the front (They need 80RMS.. so the gains would be much less than 50% ) -- And the sub I'd have 440watts.. Sub maxes at 300Watts.. So I'd have 25-30% headroom there.

As it stands.. in full 5 speaker/channel mode.. I have 70watts x 4 and 270watts for the sub. So I'm 10watts under for the JBL's up front.. and dead on the 70watts the MB Quarts want.. and "technically" 30watts under on the sub,.. But reading the technical specs of this sub from JL.. they recommend running 200-250watts instead of maxing it at 300watts anyways.. so It'l be fine. I'm going to run the gains well under max no matter what the wattage is.. Going to hit the proper Voltage I calculate according to speaker wattage/4ohms.. then touch the gain down just slightly below that.

Many if not most people listen to it with speakers going turn gain up , up , up till it distorts audibly.. then down just a touch. There's clipping/distortion that happens that isn't so audible,.. so I'm going to at least baseline it at the proper voltages for the wattages.. Then tweak it by ear from there if need be.

You know the process.. Headunit at 75percent (30/40 on mine). Bass/Treble to zero,.. EQ off/flat, no bass boost on, etc... Speakers unhooked from amp,.. DMM on pos. term of the speaker/chan you are working on.. gain at min/0 on amp.. then slowly turn it up watching your AC voltage until it hits the number that corresponds with the wattage.

Example.. Using the simple equations.. I'll set all 4 channels for the front and rears to 16.7332 volts AC.. which corresponds to 70watts at 4 ohms. (Yes, fronts are 80rms.. but this amp is rated 70x4.. I'm not pushing it beyond that limit. At 14.4volts the amp is rated higher RMS.. that's the 12v ratings,.. So I'll calculate with the car on I guess.. as I'm not going to be the dude parked with his "system" on --

Likewise.. the sub channel I'll turn gains till it hits: 32.86335 volts.. which corresonds to 270w at 4 ohms. All of these settings I'll likely drop the gains .5 to 1v for some headroom.

I'm already presetting the amp here in this room to an approximation of the lowpass at 80-90hz.. Going to be easier than when I have wires all hooked to it. The amp is all set to what I've approximated on crossovers and subsonic of course. I'm going to use tones once I'm done with it all just to see the drop off point cause that's how I am. I'll plug a laptop into the headunit and use Audacity and let it push tones up the spectrum .. say on high pass I'll push them 80,81,82,83....130hz.. and listen with the headunit at 10-15 volume.. loud enough to notice a 3+ dB drop off.. and note where it occurs on the laptop.. and likely tweak it to get the X-overs on that amp as damn near close as I can to the point I want it by ear.

As for "double protection" so to speak.. yeah I don't mind the idea of using two condoms -- I'll do that even on the X-overs I didn't plan on switching on. To have say the Low pass on the Headunit be at oh.. 125hz (I think is the highest it has).. and the High pass on the amp at 75 or something below what I have the headunit set at.. Good idea.. Although that's not going to exactly be as effective as your setup.. if my headunit reverts to turning those x-overs off with a dead battery or whatever.. only one set of speakers/speaker is going to be protected, lol. But It's still good to know running double X-overs for the same "Purpose/speaker/channel" doesn't hurt anything.

I've done some reading on why the pioneer's would cause whine if you hot swap RCA's on them.. and apparently they like to blow internal PICO's .. I've even already found a way to fix it.. but I'm going to have that battery disconnected for days.. then when I do things.. All three sets of RCA's are staying in.. and if I need to pull a set.. I'll kill the headunits power,.. not taking chances on it when it's fairly easy to kill the headunit power (just annoying when you are tuning). Though I can tune with all 3 sets of rca's hooked up. Unhooking speaker wire will essentially allow me that benefit of hearing just ONE set, be it front speakers, rear speakers, or sub at any one time.

And .. damn.. Lowes is expensive and utter crap at the same time. Got everything I needed.. and I don't have a "regular" hardware store that's not a big box store around here, cause lowes, and home depot essentially put them out of business.

One of the things I"m looking the most forward to.. that I could actually do right now.. is soldering the 4g. power and ground wire terminals on. I LOVE using that giant torch I have and feeding gobs of solder into large terminals for some weird reason. Gives me some sort of weird satisfaction.. maybe I should have been a welder

 

Interested on how this goes as most amps over rate their wattage. I've always done the gains by listening or going off the specs, never with a meter, but I'm old skool like that For example my radio puts out 4V so I just set the gains on my amp to 4V... then confirm I'm not distorting the sound or picking up any noise.

Over the years I've got to say the thing that has improved the most in car audio is the noise rejection with these higher voltage units. The first 4V one I got was amazing, you could easily drive the amp to max output without getting a ton of background hiss. Twisted pair RCAs have helped too I think, though I've read some material debunking their effectiveness.

As for the downturn in car audio - In addition to the economy I blame the integration of the "radio" into doing all kinds of stuff like navigation, backup camera, Pandora, etc all via a touchscreen. For example my wife's Volvo the A/C controls go thru the radio interface, thus you can't replace the radio. Your only choice is an expensive OEM digital interface system. There is no more middle market in car audio, its either high end or cheap junk that's left

 

Good point here.

That is why I was so happy my Nismo came with the cheapest base stereo Nissan makes, as I knew it would be simple to pull and replace.

The stereo/nav headunit in my mercedes isn't terrible, but mercedes is really several years behind the japanese automakers in this regard (they put a lot more into the engine and "driving experience" in my AMG)

I added a custom box with a 12" sub in my spare tire well, great improvement in sound, but I have to use a simple 3.5 plug into AUX to use the music on my phone, less than ideal.

In order to replace the headunit, it would require custom fabrication of part of the dash, and most stereo shops are not skilled enough, and the ones that claim that they are, get a bit fuzzy when you ask details.......

 

Me too. My dang shrink wrap (heat) tubing didn't arrive today as "promised". So that stinks.. but I've got more than enough to do today for it to arrive tomorrrow.. I won't be getting to wiring the speakers from amp today/tonight I don't think. Box/enclosure did make it this afternoon, so good.

Well.. I've been compiling the knowledge , help from your guys,.. and all the pieces, tools, and odds and ends to do this.

Now it's just about time I go get everything sorted in the garage,.. and start pulling panels. Seriously wish me the best of luck here lol.. I'm going to be slow and gentle.. but From the panels I've pulled already on the car and replaced or otherwise needed off for other reasons.. I started gentle.. then you have to eventually just up your courage and really put some force on them and then POP.. they come out (with clips unbroken).

I'll certainly be using my laptop as the most important tool in the garage.. This would be a hugely different matter without the internet , that's for sure.

As for *this* amp and it's wattage.. it's rated well.. They tend to under rate a slight bit on the RMS with PPI stuff.. and give the 12v ratings.. when my car will run at 14.8-15v or so on.. which makes a fairly significant diff. in the amps output potential.

IE: The amp is rated 70watts x 4, sub channel is 270watts rms (all at 4 ohms). You switch to bridged mode at 4ohms..and it jumps to 230watts x 2 at 4 ohms! That's a huge jump more than triple the RMS wattage. Sub obviously can't bridge quite the same since it's a dedicated 5th channel.. but it does go up to 440watts RMS from 270 if you just bridge the front two channels.. (Which when all is said and done may be the way I run the wires and eliminate the rears..)

DMM is just more of a safety procedure.. I'll set it by DMM using proper equations for wattage ratings at 4ohms .. then dial that back ever so slightly. Then listen to it, and listen for distortion. I *may* even do the 'ol' by ear distortion trick.. up to distortion and back down a bit. Then remeasure the voltage to see how much higher I got from what my calculations netted.. just to see what headroom I have, then likely dial them back down to the calculated voltage as I don't need SPL to be honest. SQ is tops for me.

On this point..for the heck of it I decided to just look what the DD-1's cost.. and they are NOT expensive. $140 or so for a good new one. Which essentially runs inline and will tell you when the amp starts clipping/distorting and so on from any source you choose to run to it. It's literally fool proof (but I'm not sure anything is really idiot proof).

But I can't justify buying one just to double check my work.. if I were going to do more installs I would.. but I'm not. I was , in fact, surprised at how reasonably priced they were.



That's $149 new.. But it's worth every penny for anyone doing a few installs, or wants to get the absolute most "clean" power out of their system tuning it.

I figured they were a thousand+.
Yup.. higher good clean voltage from RCA's the less work the amp has to do essentially.. ie: If my pre-amp was running 8v pre-outs (hypothetically) that'd give a great deal of headroom.

I don't know what my Old kenwood CDplayer/radio headunit ran on the preouts.. but in the late 90's I'd imagine it was 2v?

And I can't say enough about Knuconcepts that I ordered ALL my wiring from.. from Power/ground 4g. to 3 pairs of RCA's, 50ft speaker wire.. I didn't think I'd be AMAZED when I opened the wiring, but I was.

Particularly the RCA's.. they are quad twisted pair,.. then insulated and sheathed with what look like Monster cable RCA tips. The RCA's are about as thick as my 4 gauge wire (that's 2 RCA cables in one sheathing). They are right heavy too. The speaker wire, being 14gauge is the most flexible speaker wire I've really ever handled in my life.. which should really help on install not having to make difficult bends and such.

I didn't think about that. But it's a valid and good point. They've introduced Blue tooth, backup cameras, nearly standard CD/AMFM/ .. many with satellite, ipod/phone, Auxillary and USB connections.. Many people are quite satisfied with all that functionality.. and I'll agree the Bluetooth and such that are built in factory are generally quite good with Mic location, steering controls,.. and so on.

My headunit has all that capability.. but I'm missing the backup camera and Bluetooth. (Really wished it had the bluetooth to be honest.. back up camera I can live without).. My unit requires a bluetooth adapter that's $160-200 .. which I find a little steep.. because I can buy another doubledin headunit with bluetooth and everything else (including backup camera) included for $300-350.. makes it almost silly to go to the hassle of spending 200 bucks on an adapter, although I love the way my Headunit touch screen works.. My hand are big and not many touch screens feel GOOD to me,.. this one does, so don't want to mess with a good thing.

 

Yup.. mines not a Nismo.. but it is the "HR?" motor due to being 2008.. so it's got a little more hp to it,.. but it is a base model so I imagine our factory stereos were both equally as bad -- And I agree.. this serves in your interest if you are going to upgrade anyways.

In my last two vehicles I used the Aux 3.5mm port as well for my iphone and ipod -- Didn't really bother me that much.. I just ran a 3-6 ft 3.5mm male/male cable to the seat and would have my phone laying there with the 3.5mm in it and a charger on the bottom.. Never posed an issue , except with passengers a little

This headunit already has the Iphone/Ipod (iwhatever) hookup on it.. so no need to use 3.5mm.. and has a separate USB female connector which I use 99% of the time since I can store so many gigs of music on it and forget it.

I almost prefer a 3.5mm option,.. as you can literally hook just about anything to a 3.5mm.. Whereas the iphone/pod, etc plugs are proprietary for apple devices.

One thing I'd love to be doing is putting in the steering wheel controls + bluetooth on this.. but that can all be done later, and main reason it's not happening now is the cost of a tune to get the cruise to work,.. that'l be down the line when I actually have some reasonably mods to the car to make a tune a reasonable $500 option, instead of just for cruise

 

Well.. I started like I said I would Friday (afternoon).. Been working all night .. haven't touched it in a few hours.. taking a bit of a mental break,..

I'm a lot further along than I expected for Saturday morning.

Here are a few pics of the install.. incredibly grainy... dunno what is up with the camera/iphone..

Here's the door panel off,.. A little surprised there isn't much space to sound deaden given the singular small hole that only opened up when I got the factory speaker off:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/111739693@N04/11889863356/

Speaking of Factory Speaker.. Wow,.. these things are terrible! Look at this magnet,.. are you kidding me?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/111739693@N04/11889999266/
Here's the Interior Gutted:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/111739693@N04/11889851006/
And the rear gutted:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/111739693@N04/11889282053/

Got the 10" JL in the Custom box,.. wired up and Screwed it in by hand.. didn't want to use power tools on it.

Also checked the fit,.. Fits like a glove!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/111739693@N04/11889429764/
But, these things take time.. And man do they beat your body up! Wow.. Also stinks my shocks are shot on the hatch.. with the tinted windows, no amount of ambient light helps much.. Would help if the hatch stayed up.. Now I've had the battery literally OUT of the car since the start of the install.. as I started with the power cable.. and decided just to go the route of "The more you remove, the easier it is to get the job done".. Point is,. Can't pop the hatch to prop it up with something,.. maybe there is an emergency mechanical release, I dunno.

But,.. Adding it up.. I've run 60ft of 14gauge speaker wire,.. 3 sets of 18 ft RCA cables, 18ft Remote wire,.. (Speaker wire I needed.. the RCA length, good lord !.. So much extra,.. and to be honest the RCA's were more difficult to fish down the side of the console under carpet near top than the speaker wire, power wire, and ground wire by far (for me). I think since I have SUCH thick RCA's going through there (Knuconcept Wire I think?) it was a bit of a pain.. and having to pull an extra 10feet through doesn't help lol.

I put the MBquarts on the rear.. and of course they dont' line up with any factory holes.. And they may require a little modification of the top panel or rear speaker grills.. not sure till I get that piece on (or try).. but I did drill some 3/16th holes through the sheet metal for the MBquarts.. (Obviously not a drill bit meant for sheetmetal, as it took a little while to do..). I figure With the pilot hole I can tap sheetmetal screws in with a drill, drill them half way to 3/4th's then hand do the rest. We'll see about that. Rear isn't bad at all running wire for obvious reasons if you've ever wired the rear of this car.. nothing but space and holes back there.

What else.. I finished wiring up the MESS of a triple wiring harness I have going back there (or up there with the Head unit out).. have the front speaker wires routed to glove box location.. and hidden/ziptied, etc.. And had to cut a ton of wires, then figure out what color was what -- The colors changed 4 times between the initial wire and the wire at the front speakers!

So, Front speakers are wired (and YES.. I did it at the Headunit, glad I did..) Still wasn't a Gem of a job due to the short wires with absolutely NO slack.

I cut the old wires going to headunit for "FR/FL" and Cut the wires going to headunit for RR/RL and The wires going FROM headunit to RR/RL,.. and taped them up/capped them just to be safe. (The rears are just wired directly due to ease of wiring in their location to amp).

So yeah.. that's about where I am. I'd say at least half way. Was trying to do more of the hard stuff (to me) first.. like wire routing,.. fixing some terminals, WIRING behind headunit.. removing every panel in the freak'n car without breaking them.

That bolt right behind the rear speakers (Child safety seat attachment maybe?) -- Was perfect for the ground.. just took all the plastic and such off.. added some washers and some Wire loom where the ground goes back into a hole through the sheet metal for obvious reasons.

---

I started with guides.. but many of them just weren't completely correct for my car. Not sure what it was.. but I'd get to the 3rd step or so, and it'd be different, so had to figure it out.

The only thing I'm a little concerned is going to be a major pain getting back together is getting the headunit back in properly.

Because the guide was TOTALLY off for my car. Screws weren't where it showed.. and my headunit has these two long brackets that extend to the bottom where the Air conditioning controls are (with the controls taken off).. So very quickly I got to a point where it was time to start removing screws as I saw fit .. Got out out,.. but it's one of those things that looks like it's going to be a bit of a hassle lining everything back up to get them back in properly. Maybe not,.. we'll see.

As I look around the gutted interior,.. I'm at a loss for where to use my sound deadener? The door panels look relatively good, the factory mounting bracket seals the speaker well, and right behind that is the window.

Should I just put deadener on the door all over anyways? It's not too thick.

For the rears, getting deadener up in those holes is next to impossible,.. The cubby holes and where the sub is going are the spaces I can see where deadener could go.. I have about 1" on the sides of the sub box (not visible).. no space above it.. and 2 ish inches below the box (downward firing sub).. I guess I'll fill that area with a layer.

Oh something else -- I have Sirius Satellite radio (prev. owner had it put in.. and they did a messy job installing the antenna).. I notice that the Satellite radio sounds like regular FM radio,.. it's not super clear? Is that how Sirius Satellite radio is supposed to be? The antenna is a magnetic antenna that is about 2"x2" on the roof. Wiring looks solid to it, just curious (I don't really care about it, but it's installed so if there's something I can do to make it clearer might as well.)

Ok.. this has gotten long enough.. (Sorry bit delirious right now.. on my marathon install run..) If you didn't read or just skimmed that,.. I don't blame you lol.

Will update with the finished product and maybe some pics of any fabrication work I end up doing (some will be done.)

Take care,

 

^^^^nice work!

Keep the photos coming!

I chose not to take off that whole big back panel, as I just disconnected my rear factory speakers, but I had to get off the factory sub metal plate.

14 big bolts on that thing, all covered by plactic (which I loosened to allow me to get a wrench in there).

And I still had my seats in the car too - that was the biggest pain in the *** project I have dealt with concerning my stereo install.

Did yours have that metal piece in there? it is a very heavy gauge metal piece behind the drivers seat, under the plastic, with a hole in it for a 10" factory sub.

I still have mine sitting in the garage, I plan on taking it out and seeing how it stands up to some 10mm doubletap loads, lol!


And yes, it IS a major pain in the *** to get all the wires tucked back behind the headunit and get everything put back in place.

 

Means a lot coming from you

That back panel had to come off to do everything I'm doing wire wise. TO be honest the back panel wasn't nearly as hard to get off as everyone has said in the posts I read. It mostly just pulls off with some "careful" force. You have to get used to the idea that gentle isn't going to do it with some of the panels, but if it's not coming off or loose in a uniform way to go back over it with a fine tooth comb for any possible hidden bolts/screws. I'd say it took me 10 minutes to get that back paneling off and out.

Yeah,.. if you aren't doing the rears, and the location of the sub and amp I am not taking the seats out makes sense I guess. But,.. The seats were the first thing to come out. I need room (I'm 6ft 200lbs).. and I can't imagine trying to do what I've been doing.. especially with the headunit/rca's with the seats in.. and some of the under dash work is already hard enough with the seats out... with them out it gives you enough room to lay out (I have had my feet in that factory sub location on my back in the car wiring under the front dash more than once )


Yes.. it had that metal plate with umpteen million 10mm bolts in it.. Not sure what Nissan was thinking on the engineering but , man, that thing was held in with the force of god.. It's out, and I see no other "use" for it at this point.. Even if I pulled the sub box out at some point due to not liking it, changing locations, or selling.. I don't see much point in putting that piece back in. I guess it could be argued it adds some structural "rigidity" to the car.. and I suppose technically it does to some minute degree.. but meh.

lol.. That sheetmetal in the Z is pretty stout stuff.. they didn't cheap out on it.. it's thin sheetmetal, but it's tough. I've drilled half a dozen or more holes in it mounting speakers, crossovers , et al.. and while my bit may not be ideal .. I'm using a non-variable speed CORDED drill.. so it's getting full force and it's taking me longer than it should to drill pilot holes for my screws. If I were to have to fabricate some pattern in the sheetmetal, I'd go to the dremel... but I have no need "so far" to do that.

So fire away.. be sure to put up some pictures .. I'm sure the bullets won't have any issue going through it lol..

Sells for $25-$44 on ebay.. Not sure if it's a fast sell though.

-- Well.. It's Sunday.. and I had started Friday late afternoon.. and worked through the night and morning on it on Saturday.. then went to bed "early" on Sat. (last night).. and just got up an hour ago (11:30am). So a solid 13 hours of sleep.. Ready to go tackle it again.. But it is a little daunting walking out to a car that looks like it's mid process on the assembly line lol.

This is from yesterday... I kept pushing myself to do just ONE more thing before I quit.. Here are the JBL MS-62C's in the doors:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/111739693@N04/11912075985/
If you look over the grainy pic well.. You can see I have the crossovers in the factory panels and the new "custom" wires coming down from them *soldered and heatshrink tubing.. I'm getting better at it.. but soldering is NOT an easy skill to pick up, to do it properly. Especially INSIDE the vehicle in tight spots.. I don't care what Iron you have.. Makes crimping more appealing sometimes (IE: Behind the headunit.. ) Luckily I'm done with the wiring behind the headunit. Well besides plugging in the RCA's I have sitting there (Headunit is out and put in a safe spot so I don't damage it.)

I probably spent.. (I didn't time it).. but at least 2-4 hours on those door speakers. WOW..

The first biggest time consumer was the factory brackets.. cutting the factory speakers out of the brackets no big deal.. But these JBL MS62-C's do NOT fit in the factory bracket.. Anyone reading,.. be prepared to do some serious fabrication if you go with these speakers.

So I ended up having to trim the lip by at least 30-50$ minimum.. AND working on that plastic plug in there as it sits high on the lip.

After what seemed like 45mins-hour of dremeling on ONE speaker bracket/spacer I finally got it to fit. The holes didn't line up .. Not the holes were not lining up but you could easily drill new ones, but holes went OVER the entire lip.. So other than using non screws to mount it in there .. I had to improvise.

I managed to do more fabrication to the bracket and get some screws in it to get the speaker mounted properly. Then I used some Dynomat finishing tape around the lip for any possible "air" leaks (That's some strong stuff)..

As you can see the Crossover is mounted -- Yes, I had to do BOTH of those twice. Just because I followed a guide in where to put it on the door (which was just above the factory speaker location..).. After I did them.. I stared at them a minute and I didn't like something about it, so I looked around the edges and got the door panel.. and sure enough the crossover was not going to let the upper pop in clip of the door panel go in.

So.. it took some trial and error and approximation to find just about the only spot that is NOT on that black portion of the doors (which is most of my door).. to mount these things where they wouldn't interfere with door panel fitment. So the location you see is a GOOD location to use for anyone in the future, it clears everything and is safe as long as you aren't a moron and use 3"+ screws and screw into your window! (I made sure to roll down windows before I disconnected battery so I wouldn't run into any clearance issues).

The fronts are done on both doors.. and wired up to crossovers.

I didn't take pictures (should have).. but the tweeters on this set are 1" I guess.. but the housing they are in and grill are 1.75" .. they are HUGE lol. But I had lost my fear of the dremel a bit on my car.. so I immediately went to work on the sail panels with the dremel,.. and the fit for the tweeters (which I pushed out of the housings .. if you have this set..) is absolutely perfecto. This is one thing that worked better than I anticipated.

I got some loctite LOW grade 100 (rating) adhesive for plastic/panels, etc.. And used it to attach the tweeters.. Worked like a charm! Plus I can get them back off if at some point I needed to. Which was the goal instead of using liquid nails or many epoxies that create a permanent seal.



Yeah.. I have more wires and conectors, etc than I think most have back there.. the guy had the headunit installed professionally I can tell.. the "pro" used crimp connectors on all the wiring, but I examined it and it wasn't a plier crimp but a proper crimper.. Those aren't moving. But I still redid all the speaker wires front and back + remote wire(s). With solder. Not so worried about pushing the wire back.. but getting it all lined up properly and I do NOT remember what screw goes where .. so it's going to be me figuring out how that thing mounts back in there WITH the annoying white box below it, and gauge pod and air conditioning controls.

What's left:

Sound deaden what I can -- I'm not going to kill myself trying to deaden the holes I can't fit my hand through.. but areas that are nice an open I will deaden.. I have 30sq ft.. it'l get used.. To what effect, I have no clue to be honest.

Mount MB Quarts and their crossovers in rear slots (already drilled the pilot holes in proper locations for them) -- And run wiring.

(Wish I had one more 8 foot or so string of wire of a different color/design then everything would be easily recognizable at the amp location when hooking up. So far I have a "system" worked out for wire colors, rca ends, etc to know exactly what goes to what... I guess I'll just label the ends of those speaker wires with tape.)

Finally put that sub in the location and use the LONGER 10mm Bolts I bought per recommendation of the box maker.. glad he told me that,.. I can see where they are needed.


BUILD the Amp rack/shelving that I will be putting in the glove box.. (That seems like a big job to me, but it's not so much.. I think because I don't know exactly how I'm going to make it where the wires cleanly come up through it (cause I have 3 sets of RCA's, 4 sets of 14 gauge speaker wire + 1 set for sub of 14 Gauge, 4g power wire, 4g ground wire, and remote wire.. to feed through that tight location "cleanly" lol!)

I'm also carpeting it.. I have NEVER carpeted ANYTHING in my life.. so how the hell I'm going to "neatly" carpet two 1/2" boards I don't know.. Might not look so great lol.

Umm.. Then if I'm not forgetting anything it's put headunit close enough for wires to fit and RCA's.. put battery back in.. hook up power wire, drop in fuse.. (pray).. and then hope amp powers on.. then start dialing in Gains on the amp (again praying my wiring back there with the rainbow of colors that change to something else every 2-3inches, behind headunit, actually hits the front speakers lol). If all powers up and sound comes out.. Then I can work on putting the panels back on and, ughh.. getting that Head unit and Gauge pod, AC controls all lined up right and secure. If I miss a screw or two and it's tight.. I'm not going to sweat it much.


Will I finish today? I'd like to,.. but odds are no f'ing way with how fast time goes by when I'm out there working.. 8 hours can fly by like nothing.

I'll be back working on it within the hour.. probably another late night/morning at least.

Wish me luck!

 

Not trying to be a puss here.. but my hands are beat to hell and back.. It hurts to type lol. I guess 20 Hours straight of this kind of work will beat them up. I tried gloves at the store but could tell I'd have no feel with them.

 

Well put another 8 Hours in today.. Tomorrow I'll get to the amp wiring and plug headunit in (with car apart) and see what happens! (nervous).. If all goes well she may be all back together tomorrow evening.

Here's some pics of highlights of what's done today.

Sound deadened behind Rear speakers.. and all up in that area.. didn't take a picture of it before hand.. but it takes time to cut and place that stuff.

But.. did snap a shot on the Sub location where I deadened (used Rattletrap Extreme):



Again.. camera on this Iphone 4 is grainy as hell.. Sorry bout that. But It's "dynomated" (dunno why I keep calling it that). it's Sound deadened/dampened in there bottom, sides, and top.. did it complete coverage in the sub spot. For obvious reasons..

Man, you go through that stuff FAST. Just the back speaker area and that sub location used a good 10-15sq ft if not more. I initially ordered 4 sq ft.. HAH. I used that first when starting, and ran out of it WHILE doing the back speaker area.

Speaking of rear speakers.. Got the Crossovers mounted in there (took extra time on the X-overs because I didn't want them to start rattling.. so they are zip tied, velcroed, and even some tape and a few small pieces of deadener under the edges if they loosen up.

But here are the rear speakers (MB Quarts) mounted [I'm hoping the tops of these aren't too high for the factory trim piece.. ] -- I've had to fabricate EVERYTHING I've put in so far (which is everything lol).. Be nice to pop that top trim piece on and not have to pull it off and trim it (or the top edges of those speakers) -- I've checked if needed I can trim them up without compromising anything.



I also put some deadener on the doors.. but,.. to be honest these 350 doors are really not bad. Plus I'm running short on the material, so I had to use it sparingly and in what spots I thought were of most importance. So I know it looks like not much was done,.. but the doors took more time than it looks (strategical placement).

Driver side door (Deadener + JBL Mids and tweets installed with X-over)

[img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/111739693@N04/11921687595/[/img]

Passenger side door (Deadener + JBL Mids and tweets installed with X-over)

[img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/111739693@N04/11922142294/[/img]

I did the knock test while putting Deadener on there.. I also examined the door panel interior while I was putting the pieces in place. Covered every one of those Black round plastic things that cover holes in the door (didn't cover holes that are needed .. just holes that are very poorly covered by the factory).

You can't tell it from the pics.. But there is a ton of deadener around the mids.. they are completely the wrapped around the spacer.. and against the door.

If you see areas I should really deaden more on those doors point them out for me.. And I can slap some more on. (Originally I wasn't putting any deadener in the car.. so..)

Let's see.. what else.. oh yeah.. I fashioned the amp "rack" mount (took a while using a dremel to cut the wood).. Then I carpeted it, and it's sealing up overnight. No pics of it.. I'll snap that later.

I finally put the Sub and custom box into place. That wasn't easy.. (sigh nothing has just screwed or bolted in properly.

When I put it in,.. only 2-3 of the bolt holes lined up. Typical right!

So I put a light sanding bit on the dremel and had to sand every other bolt holes to a lesser or more degree to let the bolts thread. Only couldn't get one lower bolt to line up.. but good lord,.. that box (like the factory plate) has 12-14 bolts in it at least.. I think the box is in there and isn't coming off!

Doesn't look 'special' cause it's a stealth way of doing it.. But here it is done:

[img]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/111739693@N04/11922553716/[/img]

Looks good to me.. but took me at least an hour to get all but one bolt in. But, that's how it goes with these things.

Oh.. yeah.. (Much to many peoples "dismay".. I suppose) I am going to use the Bass **** that came with the unit,.. cause I have a feeling I'm going to be dialing down the bass a great deal and adjusting based on music type. So if you don't recommend people using "Bass *****" I get it..

Anyhow,.. I ran it to a location that is hidden, but easily accessible.. Can't really tell I did any work here, but what is hidden is a hole for the wiring (had to make it large enough for essentially a phone jack to get through).. and the way it's mounted is fairly clean too.



Nice little spot in the center console's compartment behind the cupholder area.. I don't like the divider in that thing,.. But if I want to put it in it's a quick switch.

Doesn't look like 3 days of work.. but I guess if you know what it's like to rewire the headunit, wire/run 60ft of speaker wire.. 54ft of RCA cable,.. 18ft of "phone cord",.. 18ft of power wire.. 3ft of ground,.. fabricate this, fab that.. cut speakers out of old spacers.. mount new ones in.. fab tweeters.. drill pilot holes and hand screw speakers, and crossovers.. and on and on the list goes.. You know it's a long job to do "right". (Especially being my first time installing).

Take care,

 

NICE work

You see how beefy the 6.5 woofers, basket and magnet is on those JBL's - do you think that plastic piece they are mounted in will hold them well without vibration?


And lol at your comments on that sub plate - after I got it out and felt how heavy it was, I remember wondering if Nissan engineers had designed it as a "structural component"

Honestly if it was "just" for a sub, using metal half as thick, and only 7 bolts instead of 14 would have still been overengineered.......

I never kept track on how many hours my install took, as I ended up doing it in several steps as pieces came in, and I had spare time, I figured I saved at LEAST 1k (conservatively) on the install, and I do think nobody in a stereo shop is going to take the time to do it as well as when we, as owners, do it ourselves.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for when you plug in the juice and fire it up - that's always a bit of an anxious time. ESPECIALLY if it doesnt fire up as planned (don't ask me how I know THAT feeling....)

 

For Nismodude,.. or anyone reading this post.. I know it's long.. So if nothing else,.. you can skip it , but please take a look at the 5 questions I put at the bottom (pretty simple ones).. for some advice I'll need tomorrow when I power this install up.

Thanks! I'm definitely paying my dues with this install.. 3 days and counting.. (26 hours so far). You see where I am,.. next I'll go over some things to double check... Then it's time to get to it.. Wire that amp up, plug the headunit in while it's literally just hanging there sitting on the console.. And start dialing in those gains (won't hear if speakers come on till I set the gains with DMM.. which isn't a long process.)

That's a good question.. but from everything I read the last month was that you couldn't make a better sealed enclosure than cutting the factory speakers out of the "basket/spacers" and putting whatever mids you bought into them.

Now you have me worried a little. With this kind of work put in.. Those speakers better not rattle from the "baskets".

I wonder if I should do something preventative to the baskets?

Not sure what I could do though.. Other than try to run more screws in them .. or unscrew them and put some epoxy sealant on the rim.. place mids back in.. AND screw on top of that.

Haven't really seen anyone complain that their aftermarket speakers rattled with the door panels off and the factory spacer's were rattling. Have you?

If you have any ideas to solidify that space up let me know. I think I have 4 screws at most per speaker in the factory spacers. I REALLY had to work on those things to get these JBL mids to fit in there.. so much so I would NOT recommend using the factory spacers for these speakers to anyone.. they are NOT a fit. Took over an hour of dremel work just to get them in after stock speaker was cut out.

But otherwise.. the "seal" those factory spacers make is phenomenal, but they "are" plastic.

Yeah.. taking it out really wasn't that big of a deal for me.. one of the easier parts of this in fact. Maybe 10 minute job at most? Getting this sub box back in there was one HELL of a job. The car shifts , un-noticeable to the naked eye.. and the holes in that box did NOT line up.

Thank GOD for my dremel,.. without that tool I would have been totally screwed with this install.. It's paid for itself 10 times over just for this install.

If anyone doesn't have a dremel.. BUY one. They are cheap, and can do just about anything.. I went from Cutting out speakers in the factory spacers,.. to cutting up the tweeter panels to cutting 1/2" ply wood for the amp rack/mount,.. to using a "sanding" wood drill bit to open the holes up enough for the 11 of the 12 bolts to go in properly with that sub box.

If 11, 10mm bolts don't hold that sub in place.. Well, it sucks lol. The box will crack apart before it comes loose. I am a bit grateful of the "over-engineering" there now,.. as the box due to the shifting of the car.. had a 1" gap at the lower edge (flush up top.. 1" gap at bottom). I was HOPING as I dremeled out the holes and started putting more bolts in and tightening them the box would "bend" (or that sheetmetal one) to bring the bottom in a bit closer.

It did,.. when I was done the bottom went from being 1-1/4" gap to 1/2" gap. Pleased with that! I'm still going to seal that 1/2" gap on the lower edge of the box.. even though I doubt it needs it.

I'm thinking I'll just stack sound deadening material across the bottom of that, unless you've got a better idea.

Agreed.. it was WAY over-engineered,.. but,.. If that piece is "Over-engineered" then odds are the rest of the car is as well. Better over than under. IE: My 14gauge speaker wire runs instead of using 24g factory wire. It's not technically necessary,.. but it's peace of mind.. and limits my factory wire runs of a few feet (from head unit to crossover).

Yeah I'm keeping track loosely.. as it's almost all I've been doing this weekend.. Today I put in a "short" day with 8 hours.. but I got it to a good spot to stop really. I may have an hour AT MOST of touch up stuff and going over things before I start wiring up the amp,.. Want to do that fresh.

But,.. With this install (if a pro shop were to do it the way I am).. I'm saving at least 2 grand .. if you include the MB Quarts that are essentially (free) at this point.. It's closer to 2500-3k.

Sounds nuts.. But with the touch screen double din receiver I have,.. JBL components up front, MB Quart coaxials in rear,.. 5 channel amp,.. running 4gauge power wire, ground wire.. all new 14 gauge speaker wire to fronts and rear speaker and to sub. Sub in a *custom* box obviously designed to only fit in the 350Z,.. Sound deadening the rear speaker area,.. the sub area,.. the doors, around the mids,.. (even THOUGHT about putting some by the tweeters,.. but there's no way a tweeter is going to rattle anything lol,.. BUT would it help the "mass" and sound of the tweeter by deadening those sail panels (they are so small the job would be simple) ?

Anyhow.. with 10" JL sub,.. soldering all joints,.. even soldering with blow torch the power and ground wires -- Running the bass **** to a custom location,.. dialing in amps properly, .. and I'm sure I'm forgetting something..

Would cost me an INSANE amount of money from a shop.

As I said prior : I went to two different car audio ONLY shops locally,.. and for JUST a set of front speakers and a single sub sitting in a JUNK ugly box in the back and an amp to run front + sub was $1500-1600.

I was looking for a slight upgrade to the factory system,.. but honestly,.. I think I've ended up with a 3k system,..

7 individual speakers, 4 crossovers, active crossovers on amp, active on headunit, custom "Over-Kill" wiring, sound deadening, custom box, etc.. There's no way in hell I'd get out of a shop matching the quality of speakers, quality of install for under 3 grand.. If it's 1.6k when I said "Give me your CHEAPEST front speakers and sub price".

Is this a special competition system.. Hell NO! lol.. but I bet it's going to be loud as hell.. with JBL comp's up front, MB Quarts (from when MB Quarts were high end),.. 10" sub with 440watts RMS .. If anything it'l be louder than I ever need. I'll probably being doing this thing an injustice at the volume levels I'll listen to it at.

All of that said -- For a shop to do the kind of work I (and others like us) am doing.. It's worth every damn penny of the 3k or whatever it would cost. I've 26 hours invested so far,.. and all said and done I'm sure that'l be at least 36 hours.

Most SANE people wouldn't ever do this.. my neighbors have been coming by seeing my car torn apart and me running power tools and working all day every day lol.. and are impressed (and the thing isn't even turned on) lol.. a guy came by today and said "I've never seen anyone work as hard as you have been in my life.." -- I just smiled,.. but if I took this an hour or two a day.. it'd take me a good 2-3 weeks to finish. Which would be 'ok' if I had my seats in.. but I have my seats out AND the battery is out of the car lol.

But, are we "sane".. not so much with the cars we love. I see this as any other upgrade/mod.. Though honestly, I don't see me spending this kind of sheer time/work on any other mod aside from an engine swap or something.

Thanks. I've never done so much work,.. then essentially turned it ON to see if everything I did , well, was done right lol. I've come close on computer builds for offices.. But this is a little different (I'm not cutting up and fabricating offices or computers haha)

The way I see it.. I'll be setting gains first (with speaker wire NOT plugged in) .. so If the amp powers on.. and the voltages look right as I'm setting them.. then any issue that may arise from there would be in wiring.. which as much as that sucks,.. is not that big of a deal,.. just a hunt and fix deal.

Did my best to check, double check, and triple check my wiring everywhere..

I know my posts are long -- so few questions for you (or anyone):

1) You see the pics of the sound deadening on the doors,.. Would you add more? And if so,.. where on the doors would you do it?

2) You mentioned the speaker baskets/spacers rattling with these mids,.. Is that a legit concern, and if so is there anything I can do to help prevent that while the door panels are off? Be it sound deadening material,.. epoxy/adhesive,.. screws,.. et al? (Aside from ordering MDF spacers and waiting on them to arrive).

3) Would it benefit things in ANY way to put sound deadening material in the tweeter areas? Or would that do absolutely nothing?

4) When I wire this amp up,.. Next is putting battery back in.. fuse in the power wire to amp,.. -- I have seats out,.. But the passenger seat has the "airbag" (I assume) plug that I have unplugged obviously. Can I leave the passenger seat out and turn the car on? Or do I have to hook the passenger seat back up when I power the car back up?

5) I have some sound deadening material left.. Where in the hatch area are the best bang for the buck spots to deaden.. given I am running super low on deadening material?

That's all Thanks.

 

About to go to bed, gotta get up early and a long day at work tomorrow, so in case I don't get back to you for a bit, let me take a quick stab at your questions:

1. Add more, the only limiting factor should be placing it where it will hold up the panel when you reinstall it. I initiallly installed my speakers, driving them by the factory headunit (as mentioned, this ended up being a multi step process as I decided what I wanted, got it ordered, and found time to install). I drove it that way for a couple of weeks, and there WAS some buzzing/vibration (those JBL drivers are POWERFUL) even with the stock headunit and no amp the increase in dynamic range was amazing, over the factory paper speakers. I ended up going back in and covering most of the door panel, INCLUDING cutting some long strips and sticking my arm inside the speaker hole to place them on the inside section. I think the type of construction of a door, hollow with lots of holes, makes it very prone to buzzing at some frequencies, and as those JBL's will crank, and reproduce some surprisingly low freqs for 6.5's, it can be an issue.

2. I would just cover the plastic in deadener. If it is a problem you can order the nice MDF ones, and now that you've done it once, you will find getting the door panel off only takes a few minutes, so you can do this in a couple of hours next month or whenever if you decide its necessary.

3. nah - the freqs from the tweets are so high, they produce NO detectable vibrations.

4. no idea on this one, I don't think it will cause a problem, other than maybe a warning light of some sort???

5. Same as I posted on #1, I actually bought more than my initial purchase, and when I went back in to do my sub/amp I pretty much covered that entire inside of that area, INCLUDING putting material on the inside of the upper of that cubby area - which is the floor of our hatch area, at least up under the strut part. I never took out the factory glove box area behind the passenger seat, but from the side I was working i placed material as far up and behind it as I could reach. I wasn't worried about an extra 5 or 10 pounds of material in my car, but I HATE the sound of buzzing or vibrating metal - it really kills the enjoyment of my tunes for me.

 

Sorry gotta LOL with all your posts... trying not do the "I told ya so" thing regarding the time and effort BUT Its way harder and more difficult then people think. However its a like a badge of honor, to step back when you are done and say "I did it all MYSELF" mad props for all the hard and good clean work you doing!!!

Yes a dremel is a must own tool. I put some new fog lights on my truck this weekend and just like you what should have been an 20 minute project turned into 2 hours because things didn't line up properly, wires were in impossible to reach places, etc, etc, etc so out came the dremel and after some "modifications" everything fit perfectly. Granted my back is killing me from being upside under the vehicle, my hands are all cut up (like you can't feel anything wearing gloves) and generally sick of sockets, screwdrivers and wires at this point

As for the mids - I got the SRQ door adapters, that made things much easier. The rattling in my door panels seems to be mostly coming from the plastic panel itself. However to fix that closed cell foam is way to go, read more here: http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

As for the metal sound deadener - that little area between the rear bulk head and the spare tire space seems to be a source of rattles. The spot where the child seat belt anchor is, spanning the full width of the car. Also under all the plastic that surrounds the rear strut tower brace, that thing squeaks like crazy - I assume its just the plastic panels vibrating against each other or the metal underneath.

As for carpeting things you need contact adhesive, spread some on the wood, spread some on the back side of the carpet using a big, thick disposable paint brush. Let it dry (it gets tacky) then stick to the two items together. Be careful once the contact adhesive touches itself it bonds instantly and permanently. I've used this stuff for years on speaker boxes and boats: http://www.dap.com/product_details.a...=46&SubcatID=8 just use in a WELL ventilated area, it puts off some seriously bad, flammable fumes!!!

I should have documented my install in detail, I've got tons of pictures and notes, but never put up a build log... mostly too tired after doing the work to bother in addition it's never "done" I'm still in the process of figuring out what to do about my sub (got a temporary box just tossed in the hatch) plus MORE sound deadening. And I've switched around my sound processors but still not 100% satisfied.

 

THIS.

I will say that I do get an extra ounce of satisfaction each and every time I crank up my system, though!

Feeling your pain on the back and hands - I forgot to mention how sharp that metal is on the sound deadener - I gave myself a couple of paper cuts from hell, I think I had about 4 bandaids on my fingers as I tried to finish getting my connections soldered......... I think there are still a couple of drops of dried blood on my garage floor.......

 

Hey,.. I knew this would be one heck of a job, at least I didn't go into it blind (aka no research no questions asked).. sheesh that would have been nightmare after nightmare.

Laugh all you want hehe.. you know what it's like.

I'm getting back on it this afternoon.. It's coming to "test time".. and I'm anxious about it all working.. that's worry one, then working right is worry two

I'll dilly around the car for a bit with some stuff before putting the battery back in, and wiring up the power/ground/remote and rca's to amp.. then plugging in the headunit.

Yes.. MUST OWN.. get all the bits you can.. some bits are lifesavers.. Spent 15$ on a wood cutting "bit" to cut this wood for the amp bottom mount and I've since used it on plastic trim .. why not? (I'm sure it dulls it.. but meh,.. it's all I have other than trying to hideous cutting of the plastic with snips or something equally as time consuming.)

As for maybe a mistake.. don't know yet. But the trim piece that holds the glove box door and the empty panel where the factory sub goes.. Well last night I tried to put it back on and it wouldn't fit over the new sub box (box is too thick for the lip to go on.

So I immediately go dremel that inner lip off,.. then leave it and go to bed.

Meanwhile I send an email to Ryan at SRQ customs about the fitment,.. and he said he's never heard of one trim piece not fitting,.. said I may have to stretch the trim around it.. .. So I may have 'modified" a piece behind the drivers side that was totally unnecessary. Hey, if you are going to make a mistake somewhere that's the spot I guess.

Also I WAS trying to remove my shift **** by the vice grips at bottom and channel locks on the shift **** method.. .. had no rubber so used some thick towels.. Had about two good tries on it,.. and just for the HECK of it wanted to look at the shifter.. .. It has some minor grip/tear mark(s) on the back from the channel locks. You better believe I said, hell no.. and let that shifter **** stay on and the center console is loose but it stayed in the car (as you can see in the pictures).

Good news is I found a reasonably priced **** (my shifter **** isn't damaged that bad, I think I can repair it) on ebay.. Nismo leather wrapped for $45.. new. But,,.. How the hell would I get the factory **** off .. I sort of want to KEEP it.

All I've read are people who say F' it.. and remove any protective covering on the **** and just literally rip it to shreads and apart to get it off.

I could bring it to some mechanic (have one I like now) and have him put on a shift **** (embarassment!).. but I'm afraid another person could just grip the **** and put insane pressure on it without holding the lower assembly and "damage" the transmission..

I Just want to know what the hell were these Japanese guys thinking on that shift ****. It's nice not to comes loose,.. but really? Really? I remember in my 300ZX that **** will screw on and off by hand, no big deal.

I'm sure there is some loctite , or similar stuff in there making it such an impossible seal to break without tearing up your shifter ****. But, so far those are the only two "Mistakes" if you will.

And, yeah I'm doing a "log" of my install.. but it's REALLY simple.. I get done for the day.. snap 4-5 pics and that's that. I could have taken 100 pictures by now of all the things I've been doing, but meh.. I didn't want the install "documentation" to get in the way of the install.

I *almost* bought these.. in hindsight I would have going back just to not have to spend 1-2 hours on the factory spacers with my dremel. But, now that it's done.. well.. it's money saved.

I felt these brackets,.. and they are bolted to the door.. I wrapped the 1" lip that's quite large in sound deadener and even closed the hole where the speaker wire comes out with sound deadener (shrug).. They seem like they shouldn't be cause of any rattles. That remains to be seen,.. but I can unbolt and put in the MDF spacers down the road if need be.

So your rattles come from the plastic.. I assume you mean to door panel itself. I thought about that, and it sounds right.. as the door on these cars are actually solidly built.. I did the "knock test" while I was applying sound deadener on it, and it's not bad.

CC Foam,.. yeah that sounds like a good fix to fill ALL the gaps in there,.. the sound deadening material is a lot thinner than I thought it would be,..

I've even thought of taking the door panels themselves and applying the material inside there.. It's just hard to judge where the door is going to have clearance issues .. a lot of the obvious holes/gaps have factory foam blocks in them,.. that said.. I think as long as you don't put things on the outside edge or over any bolt holes (these doors are only held on by a few bolts, and the rest clips).. you are fine on clearance with the sound deadener I'm using which is two brands.. NVX and Rattletrap (NVS was 5 sq ft. .. Rattletrap I ordered later and is 25 SQft.. ) -- I have 2 sheets of the rattle trap left at this point and I will be putting the car back together before buying anything else.. so trying to find the best "bang" for the buck of applying the stuff.

At this point, I'm just about ready to just save the two sheets (I'd guess they are 4 sqft a piece at best.. and then have the car back together and LISTEN where the rattles come from and go back in and spot fix .. at least I'll have something. If the doors are highly irritating even at lower volumes (like 8-12 on the volume out of 40).. then I'll be ordering that Foam right away.. pulling door panels is a snap compared to tearing the whole interior of the car out.

One thing doing this the way I have does.. is it puts "hard jobs" on your car into perspective.. 36 hours of work over 3-4 days makes taking two panels off and putting some foam in there like a dream at this point

This is good info.. Roadnoise is an issue (non tire roadnoise) in this car.. I noticed it right away when I ran over a little LIGHT patch of sand.. and hearing every grain popping up against the bottom of the car VERY loudly. I was like, wow.. Couldn't tell if it was coming from under the seats (front).. or maybe the rear and the sound was carrying.. I have a strange suspicion that kind of noise is coming from the strut bar around and backwards and the sound carries oddly like it can do to the front cabin.

I actually dismantled the child seat belt anchor (no kids)..and put some lock washers on it and sandwiched the ground to that.. bolted it down tight and you literally couldn't get a better positioned and "Type" of ground bolt if you wanted to. Given all my wires are run into the glove box area (under it).. that 3ft ground wire doesn't have far to go.. so that spot was a dream.

Again,.. I want to just start dropped fat pieces of this deadener on these places back there.. but given my current low quantity of it.. I'm afraid I'll do it and then end up putting it back together and inevitably hear rattles from other spots.. then have nothing to immediately jump in and spot fix.

I EXPECT rattles from multiple locations.. I'm not kidding myself here. So I really think I'm done deadening at the moment.. I know my doors look like a lazy person did it, but I really did spend time cutting pieces in specific shapes and putting in precise spots (I didn't just slap random pieces up there..) I mean the sound deadener I got was a GOOD deal.. and that's still $2+ a sq ft.. if you aren't careful you can end up spending more than your amp and speakers cost on deadener. I have $65 in deadener so far (got 5sq ft free with a bundle when I bought my components).

Also -- I bought some carpet .. ended up being WAAAY too much for the little bottom mount for the amp I did last night.. so I have a decent amount of black carpet (albeit cheap carpet) that I figure I should use somewhere in the car while it's apart to at least reduce road noise..

If I can,.. I might try to push it under the seats carpet .. carpet does a decent job of absorbing sound,.. and while this isn't free.. I'll not have any other use for it now.

I just bought some loctite contact adhesive, grade 100 (The bottle said allows for 5-10minutes of manueverability before it sets fully.. I figured that would be easier to work with than the 3M spray next to it that was three times the cost.) I left it sitting overnight,.. and maybe it's the carpet I bought,.. but cutting carpet with a box blade isn't a breeze. This stuff keeps fraying up at the ends.. Think I'll take my smaller heat butane torch (the smaller hand held ones) and quickly cauterize those ends where I carpeted the top of the plywood I'm mounting my amp on.

Bonus is that it's black,.. so some burn marks from doing so just blend in


On the amp rack (bottom shelve anyways).. I used that little pop in tray to measure and cut out the piece.. then remove 2.5" from the rear of it so I could feed wires back there without too much trouble to the amp.

I'm debating on how to connect that piece of 1/4" plywood to the little lip there that tray sits in (in the glove box).

I could screw through wood into the plastic lip.. but it's close to gas tank.. hrmm. I also bought a 20ft roll of industrial velcro.. That stuff always comes in handy. I'm actually considering mounting the plywood shelf to the lip with the velcro,.. AND the amp to the carpeted piece of plywood with more velcro.

That velcro will keep things from moving.. AND it would retain ability to pull up on amp for adjustments. Instead of having to unscrew it (screw holes tend to strip in that kind of stuff.. it's more of a do it once kind of thing and leave it.)

Bolts and nuts are a second option, and my ORIGINAL plan. But after putting things in the glove box I see if I go with original plan I will be left with 1" of space to store things in the glove box haha.. So I switched to 1/4" plywood from 1/2" .. and am mounting it different which still gives at best half the space of the glovebox to store stuff.

I'm using the factory carpeted cutout to go on top of amp (again probably velcro lol).. and the higher that piece goes the more it sticks out of the glove box since the box is angled. So I planned on cutting about half inch to 1" off the back of it.. and it should fit like a glove on top of the amp.


Yeah,.. as I said above.. I'm "documenting" it.. but lazily with the pics.. what you get are mostly end of day results in 3-4 pics.. with descriptions of that days work. In my "build log" in the builds section.. I didn't go into detail,.. made it short and sweet and it's mostly pictures.

I can write all day long as you can tell.. so if you look at my build log (which is the same pictures posted in this thread).. you'll actually see a post of mine that is "short".

Enjoy your feedback,.. thanks.