JasZ

All,

I have started measuring for sub enclosure I intend to build for my roadster's stock sub location and I am wondering what your opinions were about a JL 8w7 sub vs. a 10w6v2 sub for that spot.

My enclosure will be sealed and I am more interested in solid clean sound than pounding the crap out of the car next to me, but I do want a little bit of umph. Do you guys think the 8w7 will be good enough? It will fit much easier in the given space.

I was thinking of combining this with the 450/4 JL amp with the first two channels bridged. Any comments on that combo?

Thanks in advance for the help,

JasZ

SQUILL

JasZ with a correctly designed enclousure you will pound the crap out of the car next to you one eight!

My advice would be go with tens as they can naturally produce deeper bass than an eights can and be able to more accuratly reproduce music.

I dont know why you are thinking of running a 10w6v2 sub from what you are saying a 10w3v2 would be more than enough for what you want , cost half as much and be properly powered by the amp you want to run 300 watts x 1 this sub running optimum when supplied with 300 watts rms

Running high power capable subs with low power (ie: running a 400w sub w 100 watts) is just a waste of money and yeilds poor results. Believe me ive built at least 6 systems for me personally and at least 15 others for friends. The most common problem i see is people will buy theese massive subs that can handle a thousand watts and they only run 200 watts to em theese systems while sounding good are very inefficient and never produce the results desired. there is a reason theese subs are designed to run that kind of power...they need it!!! otherwise you are wasting watts to push a larger voice coil, tighter suspension, ect ect resulting in less DB efficiency per watt used.

Believe me if you run that amp with the 10w3v2 guess what... you are going to pound the crap out of that car next to you !!!!

hope this advice helps you good luck with the system!

JasZ

SQUILL,

Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it. I was under the impression that the 8" subs would produce a cripser and tighter sound with quicker response.

Maybe I'll see what I can do with a 10" even though that would be pushing the boundaries of my enclosure size.

The 8w7's nominal power level is 250watts and JL recommends the 250/1, but I want those front channels in one amp so I can save some room. From what you've told me. The 300x1 watts from the 450/4 JL amp should be just about right.

I'm gonna go take a look at those 10w3v2 subs now cause I'm feelin' pretty po' at the moment.

Thanks again for the help!

-JasZ

JasZ

I've seen posts claiming 2 8" sounds better than 1 10". Any truth to that?

SQUILL

It is really subjective because it depends so much on enclousure design and quality of the subs used and the quality of power going to it. about 10 years ago i built a band pass box for his 2 nakamichi eights being powered by a good soundstream amp pushing 200 watts. To this day ive never heard two eights pound a car so hard ..everybody that sat in that car thought it was two 15's! Now on the same token ive heard countless jury rigged systems wit two 12's and 2 15's that were just downright awful.

The stock sub location is not an ideal location at all for a sub sonicaly speaking. Just have a seat in the drivers side , listen to a song with some good bass at high volume, then listen to the same song at the same volume in the passenger seat and you will see what i mean. unless space is a prime concern look to mount your sub in the rear hatch as bass soundwaves sound much better if they can travel a distance untill reaching the listner ..ideally facing the sub towards the rear of the car will force the soundwave to bounce off the rear hatch/window and then travel back towrds the listner increasing the distance it travels improving the db gain in the bass soundwave(this is why you see so many subs facing towards the trunks of cars)

Now demand for eights theese days is very low and everyone uses 10's for tight accurate bass. two eights will have the same cone area as 1 ten so 2 eights and 1 ten will be able to move the same volume of air respectivly(soundpressure)

you need to move more and more air the lower the frequency is to make the tone audible to the listener so by using a ten you will not give up any of the tight and acurate qualities you seek in the eight however the ten will also move twice as much air(sound pressure) as 1 eight will so the lower bass notes will be far superior to the single eight.

You will not be happy with one eight especially if you run your sub in the stock location. You are going to be running 300 watts of pure class a power dont waste it on an eight!

JasZ

Thanks for the advice. That really helped a ton.

Those 10w3v2s are pretty cheap compared to the w6 and w7 lines so I may go that way to keep the cost down and dump the extra money into an Eclipse head unit.

I have a Roadster so the rear hatch isn't really an option for the sub, but I'm hoping that the 10w3v2 with the sealed enclosure will sound good. Maybe I can add a port if I think I can pull it off.

I already got the 3/4" thick MDF fiberboard for my enclosure and now I just have to get the right dimesions. Those 10w3v2s require a smaller internal airspace than the w6/w7 so they may be more suited to this application anyway.

One thing is for sure: it will sound a hell of a lot better than the stock Blose system.

Thanks again for the help.

JasZ

BTW. Is there a place that you would recommend to buy subs and amps online that has good deals?

SQUILL

You know as i was thinking about this The best sub i think for the factory location would be the 10 kicker solobaric subwoofer as it should fit there but because of its square design it has 20% more cone area than a normal 10 like the JL. By doing this it is like having a single 12 back there but still acts like a 10 does in regards to tight and accurate bass responce.

My buddy came over with his s-10 x cab truck he is running two kicker solobaric 12" L7's powered by two kicker zr 600 amps (1200 watts) !!!! my god these bad boys knocked the wind out of me !!!

SQUILL

ive bought from sonic electronix cardiscountstereo.com and audionmore.com

all three vary good vendors.

It seems to me that its impossible to really get good discount on JL audio stuff but if you look around you might. If youve been on these forums for awhile you have probably seen Nazars sub box (he is building mine right now) ive read on here that he has the best prices on Jl audio stuff give him a call.

Click on the thread on the first page of the audio/video/nav forum (the one we are on now) that says Nazar strut tower update

SQUILL

wait here it is click this link Nazar is a cool guy he might be able to help you out.
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=72304

JasZ

Thanks a bunch.

G35Couper

I am in the same (almost) position but I want to go with an 8w7 or 10w7 (leaning towards the 8w7) but I do not know if the stock enclosure will fit the almost 10" required for the mounting depth of the 8w7. I did not want to take the sub out to do the measurement so maybe if you have done this or are going to do it, you can post what size (depth and volume) sub can fit there without major mods to the stock sub location.

I am leaning towards the 8w7 as I am having a custom box built with a 13w7 ported into the cab for the real bass and want the 8w7 for good tight midbass in the cab.

Hope the install goes well for you and you post your results.

SQUILL

An 8w7 for mid bass is just complete over kill. All you need for mid bass would be an 8w3 which would still be over kill with a clean 100 watts min rms this would provide all the mid bass in the world and would fit with ease.

there is no reason you need to run a sub thats built for long excursion, deep bass and 400 watts. you are not planning on supplying 400 watts to your mid bass driver are you??

i think you will find using the 8w3 would do more than you need it to ...probably need to turn the gains down as to loud of mid bass car ruin the sound of your music!!

JasZ

Ok. Here we go. I think I'm going with the JL10W3v2 sub in the stock location and the 450/4 amp to power it and the front speakers. Anyone know of a problem with this?

The guys at the local store tried to talk me out of using that amp saying it would not sound good, but the setup is described in the amp manual and I think they just didn't have any to sell me.

It'll be a while before I have the time to do this install, but I took some measurements and I think that with the proper angles, the 10W3 should fit in there. I think I'll have to shave off some of the 3/4" of fiberboard on the top and bottom panels to get the sub into the face of the enclosure, but I think the overall depth might be okay. I'm not sure about the 10w6 and 7.

I can measure all day long, but I just gotta shove my wood in there at some point and see if it fits. Wait, what was I talking about?

G35Couper

Oh, so many choices. I was thinking of the 10w3v2 also (or maybe the 8w3v2) and using the 500/5 with 250 (more than the 8w3v2 needs at 125, thus the 8w7 idea) going to the 10w3v2 (or 8w7) and the 2x100 and 2x25 bi-amped (if that is the correct word where the 6.5" aget the 100 watts and the tweeters get the 25) to some MBQuart PCE216 (also thought of the 450/4 bi-amped to QSD216 with a 250/1 for the mid bass sub) I had the 216 in my G35 with a 300/2 and loved them, but felt it needed more midrange and an 8 sounds good for that. I will look further into the 8w3 with less power to it idea, that may work well. I just would worry it would not be on par with the rest of the system (QDS/PCE 216 w/450/4 and 250/1 or 500/5 and a 13W7 w a 1000/1) and would get drowned out and not be able to keep up.

JasZ, let us know if your wood fits or not, as if the 10w3v2 fits, surely the 8w3v2 will.

SQUILL

Trust me anything more than an 8w3 for midbass will just be wasting money.

dont fall in to the trap of buying the "best" sub jl makes just because it is their top model.

Rember as well that if your crossover point gets to high you will start to get directional sound coming from behind the seat and accurate reproduction of music will become impossible this is why you see so many 6.5" midbass drivers mounted in kick panels or the front doors because the mid bass soundfield becomes directional while your sub bass is omnidirectional this is why you can mount your subwoofer just about anywhere. You dont want those kick drums sounding like the drummer is sitting in your hatch behind you do you???

Remember also that the mid bass frequency range is higher and you will be able to produce higher DB levels with less power this is why im saying to look into an 8w3 for this application i would bet money if you fed that 8w3 with 100 watts of clean power your midbass volume would be too high and you would probably have to turn the gains down on your amp anyway!!! Have you ever fed a set of tweeters 50 watts of clean power??? they will just over power you in an instant because the higher the frequency the less air you need your cone to move to reproduce audible sound waves. Thus you might need 500 watts to get a 40hz bass note to play at 120 DB but only need 100 watts to get a mid bass driver to play 150 hz at 120DB to match!

SQUILL

JasZ have you considered a fiberglass enclousure for the stock location ive seen a bunch of guys on here running 10" subs in the stock location using fiberglass enclousures! I dont think this is a good location for any sub at all but since you have a roadster i guess thats your only choice! good luck with the install!

G35Couper

Yes, all you are saying is making sense and I agree. The problem with the 8w3 and the PCE216 or QSD216 components is what amp to drive them? I could go with the way JasZ went with a 450/4 but that still puts 150 to the 8w3 and I thought that would be harmful. I guess the 450/4 with the gain turned down to the 8w3 might work, not sure (I am mostly an audio illiterate). I also thought it would be cool to have the 500/5 feed the fronts bi-amped and 250 to the 8, but that would be way too much. Although after talking with you, and some others, I am leaning more towards the 8w3, pce216s and a 450/4.

Also you can put a sub in the trunk in the roadster as there are pathways all the way from the truck into the cabin. My installer suugests putting in the 12w7 or 13w7 in the truck with a 1000/1 and porting it into the cabin using either the little storage pockets behind the seats or the rear factory speaker locations with the rear speakers removed (hear alot about not needing rear speakers anyway, not sure about that). The roof sits on little nubs when down so would not get in the way of a clear path. Certainly a more expensive route than the stock location, but you sure could get a lot of hard hitting bass that way

Thanks for your input and insight squill

JasZ

I would have no idea where to begin to do a fiberglass enclosure. I figure using the 450/4 gives me flexibility if I want to switch to a separate sub amp later with reard driven off the 450/4.

SQUILL

The most importaint thing to consider when selection a speaker is what ohm load it will produce at the amplifier. for example you mentioned an amp that would supply 150 watts to your mid bass driver however at what ohm load is that ? lets assume that it would be 150 watts at 4 ohms which is the most likely. so if you select a 4 ohm mid bass driver the speaker will recieve 150 watts. if you select an 8 ohm speaker that same amp will now be supplying 75 watts due to the 8 ohm load ...on the same token if you select a 2 ohm speaker that same amp will supply 300 watts because of the 2 ohm load assuming the amp is 2 ohm stable you follow??? so you can dictate how many watts your amp will produce depending on what ohm load you run to it.

you should definitly run your sub in the trunk if you can as the farther the bass soundwave travels before it hits your ear the better it will sound.

now unless i read your post wrong you want to run a sub in the trunk and a midbass in the factory location right?? because 1 single eight for bass only probably wouldnt give you the results you want.