dannichols,

Thanks for the help, advice, and suggestions.

At this point my buget is only allowing for the following setup I provided above.

I may someday copy your same setup...

I was actually considered running the power to the rear thru the OEM HU unit's original OEM front power suppy lines. So the HU would not no the difference. The power lines would just have to be lengthened a little. So I'm literally powering the fronts in the same manner, just in a different position in the car. I would just adjust the HU fader all the way to the front to power everything equally. I can always fine tune the output to the kappa 6.1's in front thru the amp.

Did you really notice that much noise from the converter??

 

Z, you will be happy for awhile with the setup you proposed. Don't get me wrong. it's just that you have to understand that you are taking an amplified signal...dropping it down to a pre-amp level, and then boosting it all over again in the amplifier. You'll see what I mean when you turn it up, it starts to get pretty distorted IMO. Since you aren't going to be driving the rears very much, why not just leave them as they are and do the HU - Converter - Amp - Kappa route for the fronts?

 

Wait, how are you able to hook up an amp to the stock stereo system? it has no pre amp outs?

 

Exactly, that's what the hi/lo converter(s) are for. You can get them (Tsunami) at most electronic stores cheap or there are high-end ones like Audiolink. You basically snip the wires leading to the speakers and instead splice them into the converter. The converter has two RCA female plugs which you can connect to the amps with 6' or 10' RCA cables.

Another thing you can do (perhpas to save money), is get an amp with hi level inputs. Connect your speaker wires to it and then out to your new speakers.

like I said, this all works ok, but for many people the sound quality isn't good enough.

 

Again, thanks for the help...

I looked at my amps and they both have the standard RCA in and out connections including a specific connection option that looks like a little plug for High Input Only. The one amp has CH1 and CH2 with GND pins. Is that a good thing?

Would I get a better sound going that route? Can I buy a little high input plug that will work like the HI\LO converter?

Another thing...do you think the AudioLink converter is that much better than the Tsunami? I thought those converter's were suppose to be pretty good and not transfer that much noise? Damit!

Maybe your ears or finely tuned to that sort of thing and better than mine I guess I will just find out, huh?

 

Sounds like you have pretty standard inputs on the Amps. It brings back memories for me because I had the sme questions. I bought an Audiolink awhile back but never got around to using it since replacing the head unit. Going by threads on this site, it seems the best approach without new head unit would be a high-end converter like Audilink makes (Powerdriver). This would be installed as close to the head unit as possible. Second best may be installing the Tsunami as close to head unit as possible. Third would probably be routing the speaker cables into the amplifier through the HI inputs (depends on the quality of your amp). Of course the easiest is to use the HI inputs to the Amp, since you wouldn't need any RCA cables or have to figure out where to hide the HI-LO converter. In fact, you wouldn't even have to take out your head unit if you spliced the speaker wires under the passenger dash for the fronts and inside the rear cavity for the rears.

Perhaps if you are unsure about this whole Hi/Lo conversion as a long term solution, you may want to take the easiest approach. If it is Waaaay below acceptable to you it may save you time in having to redo a lot of work.

 

dannichols,

Still learning here... I've set up stereos in the past and everything worked, but I've never tried high jacking an OEM head unit to power a whole new system.

If I understand what in the hell I'm trying to accomplish... it's more simple than I made it out to be, hopefully. I checked out some other threads just to gain some insight.


https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=49591

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=93941

If I am understanding you correctly, I don't even need a HI/Lo converter if my amp accepts high level inputs, correct?

I opened my amp box and found the High Level Input Connector.
Can I splice some #18 speaker wire off of the rear speaker contacts and connect them with the wires comming off of the HLIC? The HLIC diagram shows a Left Speaker Output (+ and -) going into CH1, via the wires on the connector and a Right Speaker Output (+ and -) going into CH2 ,via the wires on the connector. Also provided is a wire coming off of the connector to ground to the chassis.

The amp has a level input (4v-2v) to match sensitivity to the output of the radio. The amp also has the standard HP/LP adujustments along with the Bass/Treble tunning and HP/LP/Flat selector. I plan on linking this amp up via this route and then daisy-chaining the second amp thru this one. Obviously readjusting everything on the second amp.

You seem to know your stuff. Will this direct link help reduce noise verse the HI/LO converter? And this may be a dumb question, I can't remember what I did last time, but does this HLIC take care of turing "on" the amp automatically? I'm drawing a blank on this...

 

Thanks for the compliments ZQ, I know a little about the Hi/Lo use because I wanted to save some $$ early on. Anyway, Yes, the process can be very simple if you just use the amplifier Hi-level inputs. Is this better than using a Hi/Lo converter behind the head unit? No, everything I've read says to put the conversion as close as you can to the source..For the Bose system that makes sense because you want to catch the signal before it gets amplified on its way to the 6.5" speakers..on the base model I'm not sure if it will really matter though.

You can cut the speaker wires near the back speakers and route them into the amp Hi input and then from the amp back to the speakers, but that will only give you two channels (rear left/right), what about your front speakers? Do you want the ability to fade between front/back as well as balance between left/right? If so you will likely need to route the wires from ALL speakers into the HI input..and if you're going to go through that trouble (taking apart the doors and rear panels), you might just want to take out the dash and radio and splice into the outgoing wires from the head unit instead. You can run the wires down the shift center column and to your amp..your amp is mounted in the cubby behind the driver?

You will need to provide a remote on connection to your amp to only turn on when the car is on. best way to do this is with a lead from the head unit..another alternative is to tap into the lighter lead in the back. Probelm with the latter is the amp won't turn off with the car on and radio off.

The HP/LP filters and adjustments may come in handy when you are adjusting this setup as you will be limited in fine tuning fro the Head Unit.

Anyway give it a go this weekend.

 

ZQ, one last word of advice..be mindful that this system may not meet your sound needs. try not to do anything that will be difficult to change if you later decide to swap the head unit.I am glad I originally used 3 sets of RCA's with the hi/lo converts, because when I later changed out the head unit, the leads were already run.

 

dannichols,

Couple of questions.

As I learn what I can and cannot do, and what is the best way to set up stuff for my particular needs, I end up coming up with different wiring schematics every time.

You asked if I want the option to fade front to back and left to right. The answer is yes.

You asked if my amps will be located in the cubby behind the passenger seat. The answer is yes.

One of your suggestions was splicing the wires at the back and using the 12v output for the amp's ( HLIC's input and turn "on"). I am not going to go that route after you suggested the other options. Which seem like it will potentially produce less “noise”.



This is what I am now proposing and please let me know what you think? The car is completely torn apart so running wires is no problem.

OEM front 6.5's moved to the rear location and powered by the OEM HU. I think they will sound fine at a low level and at this point they are better than the current (40w 32ohm) rears. The tweeters are going to the trash along with the current rears.

New (kappa 6.1's) up front powered by a 2ch amp, with sound input coming from the OEM HU.

JBL 12” sub in compartment behind the driver’s seat powered by a 2ch amp (bridged) and sound input coming from the first amp.




These are the essential questions? While considering the desire for minimal interference and noise.

Should I run input directly from the HU into the (Tsunami) converter at the dash via the spliced rear speaker wires? Then direct the input via high end RCA cables to the amp at the rear? I know this could elevate any problems for future setups with the RCA's already in place.

Will the RCA cables produce potentially less “noise” than the regular #18 wires to the HLIC?

Or, is there a way to actually solder/tap into the HU circuit board for the (rear sound level) outputs? This would provide literally a direct link to the #18 wires running to the amp’s HLIC.

Either of these setups will allow for fading front to back, it’s just going to be reversed.

I hope to find the power “on” wire to the HU, splice into it and run that directly back to the amp. Do you know if that is possible?


Thanks again for your help

 

ZQ, first I would recommend getting the stock HU wiring diagram. I can give you the basics if you don't have the 350Z tech manual on CD. Basically you will find all the wires you need within the two wiring harnesses attached to the HU.

OK, let's see. I like your choice for front speakers and a 12" sub (or 2 10") to me is a must. But I think you should prepare for the future while you have the car torn apart. The reality is as long as you are running from the stock head unit, whether tapping into the rear speaker- HI/LO input on amp or running from the HU through converters to the Amp, you're input quality will be diminished compared to a high-end deck with RCA pre-outs. That said, here's what I would suggest as a limited budget solution that will keep you open for future upgrades:

- tap into the front (L/R) output leads from the HU and splice these leads into a hi/lo converter.

- Run (3) 6 or 10' RCA cables down the center console plus an 18 gauge power wire for 12V remote signal from HU

- Reconsider how you are going to fit the 12" sub in the stock location. I tried designing a box to go there and there was no was it was going to work so I scrapped the idea. If you can make it work good for you, if not consider a 10" there and the amps below glove box.

*personally, when I was building I decided on a fiberglass strut tower box with 10" Alpine. Sounded good but was not practical since I carry a lot of sports equip back there. The strut bar box also seemed to trap bass in the rear and produce a ton of rattle..my car sounded like a tin can and I could only get "proper" base when the car was standing still. I ended up with a 12" flush with the rear floor with a hand built F/G box residing in the forward part of the tire well. See my other thread for that.

- Anyway, depending on where you put the sub, mount your amps in the appropriate location and run the RCA's (the 2 that are live) in along with the 12v Amp-on signal wire.

- My next suggestion would be to just get a 4/3/2 amp instead of the 2 channel. Why? because you can get one inexpensively and it will afford you the ability to test out a couple of setups before spending big bucks on a new head unit, amps, etc... You can split the incoming signal from the RCA's with the Amp crossover and run the 2 front speakers and Sub..In fact the sub output can be bridged so you have 3 outputs from the amp. This is what I did early on and it sounded ok.

- Run proper power wiring to the amps so you can upgrade in the future. I would recommend at least 4 g from the battery and split it to 8 g back near where the amps will be housed. Use proper fusing.

- Run wiring for all speakers. This is a pain for the fronts but since you are using quality speakers up there you don't want to use stock wiring. This took me many hours but definitely worth it. Speaker wire can be run down the center console too. You may want to run new wiring to your rear speakers too just because the back panels are off in case you decide one day to upgrade for better fill sound (I use my rear speakers at about 10% fronts about 90%). Everyone likes a little different setup and sound, so remember to keep all options open and experiment/build based on what sounds good to you.

- Also consider some matting (Fatmat, Dynamat, BB, or whatever for vibration damping..especially in trunk and perhaps some form of sound deadening (although no one can agree on this) liquid, foam, etc.

Good luck

 

Oh, I may as well mention what I did on my gilfriend's SUV regarding Hi/Lo converters. She has a very limited budget! I picked up a cheap and cheezy dual 10" sub box from E-bay and a 2-channell amp ($50 total). I ran power wire 8 g from the battery back to her rear hatch area and installed the amp. The I pulled out one of the rear speakers, cut the lead, and used it as the input to the old Hi/Lo converter I had replaced from my 350Z. I used a Y connector to convert the single input into Left/Right channels and then fed this through RCA's to the amp. From the Amp I ran to the two inputs of the Sub box a presto a stock system with some bass. Of course the system is limited, her rear fading actually controls the sub volume too now, but she is happy with it..until she realizes one day she has only one working speaker in the back ;-)

 

thanks dannichols

man you covered a lot...I know the sound will never be as good has an aftermarket HU setup...but for now that's ok.

The car is already sound dampened to an extreme. I basically triple matted the rear wheel wells, applied it all over the rear end to help muffle the exhaust, doubled up on the rear speaker compartments, OEM sub location and door panels. The rear speakers have already doubled in sound output because I basically sealed the little compartments with the matting. And the exhaust sound has been cut in half, I had to leave a little

Anyway, the 12" sealed sub box is built and fits like a charm. I was able to squeeze (.76cu.ft ) using a CAD program to help me design the box.

I already purchased the 2ch amps and there is no way of returning them. I think I will be ok with the one amp dedicated to the kappa 6.1's and the other amp dedicated to the JBL sub. The front speakers placed in the rear will just produce a little more depth/bass powered by the HU. I think they sounded ok in the front so it shoud be the same for the rear. I will probably run the same 90/10 sound output like you.

I am going to use the HI/LO converter in the dash and splice it into the Front L/R channels. Then run two pair of high end RCA cables to the rear just for future upgrades.

I already bought a 1200w stinger amp kit with almost everything I need to set things up. I just need a distrubution block w/fuse and some nice new speaker wire.

Well wish me luck and thanks again for your help.

 

OK, I need some help again

I need someone with knowledge on the "wire harnesses" for the Base z HU. I'm trying to tap into the output leads with my (H/L output converter).

Does anyone know what wires are the output leads for the Front and Back speakers?

*please specify with color combinations to keep everything clear*

many THANKS in advance...

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