ZZZ-35

Well guys we got an increase but not in the magnitude Nathan got on his Japanese car (14kw).

The first run the car was stock standard except for the hyper grounding kit, full tank of Mobil Synerg 8000 (98 Ron) and 5000k.

Conclusion the Aussie cars are down on power compared to to US and Jpn cars, dam this ECU. There's a whooping 30% lost through the drive train going on these numbers.???

The prototype Hi-Tech SS muffler gave a 5.5kW increase at the wheels and 7.7Nm increase in torque.

Peter from Swift Automotive does a lot of dyno work for HM Headers during there development work, the chart attached is the best of three runs with each setup (std v modified).

How Lambros from Hi-Tech requires someone in Sydney to help further develop this exhaust system, he needs someone with a Z350 manual car. If your interested please PM me and I'll give you all the info.

David

Dyno Chart.

malcolm

Very disappointing, but look on the bright side. An ECU upgrade appears to have huge potential KW gains. Hopefully it will not be long before an ECU upgrade is uncovered. It may not be unreasonable to expect 20kw plus from an ECU as well as another 10kw from exhaust. Hopefully for around $2,000 - $2,500, a 15% power upgrade will be possible.

A comparison test in the March edition of the UK CAR magazine, between a 350Z and a Mazda RX8 quotes a 0 -100km time of 5.5 seconds for the Z. It describes the Z as having massive grip and performance compared to the relatively dainty, rolly RX-8.
Methinks, in Australia we have been shortchanged by Nissan, and are falling short of that "massive performance".

Let's hope someone can address the situation soon. Not that I'm totally dissatisfied with the performance, but the potential lurks in there somewhere to do a lot better.

I was always a little sceptical of claims of 14kw from a muffler upgrade only.

nismor33

Using the Nissan released numbers we are only down slightly.

Nissan USA 274 lb-ft converts to 372 Nm
Nissan USA 287hp converts to 214kw

So we are down 9 Nm and 8kW.

What is interesting is the US guys are only using 95RON fuel only and we have minimum 98RON fuel. Either Nissan Oz have used the figures that japan have released and we have the same exact power as them or we all have the same and the US/Oz numbers are understated, or the US got a better tuned ECU.

Compared to the US dyno Dave got 195hp at the wheels which is significantly down on the US numbers of about 240hp at the wheels.

Dave what sort of Dyno is this? There is going to be a huge difference between the dynos here and there and the US guys are seeing on average 20% power loss through the drivetrain.

Also is your chart correct, it shows 450+ nM of torque at the wheels !!!!

What I will be interested to hear is the Japan dyno numbers.

Might go and get mine on the dyno in a few weeks when I have some more kms on there and also try an exhaust. I wonder if we could get our hands on a US ECU and lets hope Apexi release a Power FC. I plugged one into an R33 Skyline with no tuning and anything about 3500rpm lit up the tyres!!!

This is something to persue I think !

Mike

apsilon

Not surprising you didn't get the quoted 14kw. That was just too much to expect from just a muffler. Nice increase though.

It does seem our cars are down on power although it's beyond me why Nissan Aust would spec such a thing. Then again having experienced Nissan dealers for the first time they do appear to be a collective bunch of morons. By far the consistently worst dealers I've ever met.

Back to the topic at hand. What gear did you dyno in? That will have an effect on the numnbers produced. Also if comparing a US and Aust dyno and about 10% to our numbers. Can't remember the technical reason but ours seem to read about 10% lower.

It'd be interesting to get 2 or more Aust cars together and dyno them all at the same place. You often get a fair bit of varience right from the factory

ZZZ-35

Well guys I was pretty disappointed in those numbers, the thing is after talking to Lambros the improvement was on a Japanese car that Nathan import not an Aussie spec. sorry crippled car.

To answer a couple of the questions:

1) The runs were all done in 5th gear, it's 1:1, Lambros (Hi-Tech)did there runs in 4th gear, maybe quite a difference there alone.

2) The torgue figure is at the rear wheels not at the flywheel, it also goes through the diff. it multiplies the output.

3)I have to agree with apsilon about Nissan and there dealers, he quoted and does anyone else agree.

"It does seem our cars are down on power although it's beyond me why Nissan Aust would spec such a thing. Then again having experienced Nissan dealers for the first time they do appear to be a collective bunch of morons. By far the consistently worst dealers I've ever met"

4) The Hi-Tech exhaust was a prototype (not finished yet).

5) Peter from Swift did say the car is running very rich in the higher rpm's, maybe to protect the Cat's, room for improvment there.

The power lies in the ECU end of story!!!

David

apsilon

I knew Nathans car was Japanese spec. They quote the same 206kw as Aust so I was hoping they were the same. We all know about the agreement in Japan limiting cars to 206kw.

4th gear would produce different results so we can't compare the two really.

I have a dyno chart showing my SC MX-5 with about 540Nm so yes it's due to gearing and other items, even the dyno itself.

Prototype or not I wouldn't expect to see much more from just a muffler. Bit more from a catback and a bit more again for headers. It is nice however to see the improvements were throughout the range and not just peak.

Perhaps we could bump the timing a couple of degrees?

I agree the ECU is going to be a big part of the equation. Have to wait and see on this one. I for one don't want to bother with the hassles of a programmable ECU on a street car again.

nismor33

Well I now agree with you re the Nissan dealers!

Just got back from there now taking mine in for the first service. I explained to them I have the occasional clunk on the front end when doing tight parking but I cant reproduce.

Did the right thing and told them the US dealers are tightening the upper control arm bolts.

The response was "Sir, if I cant hear it I cant spend time on something so I wont even look at it !"

Sorry rant mode off.

Back to ECU. I am going to try and get a Japanese one in the next few weeks and might plug that in and see how it goes.

Mike

apsilon

If you do that can you dyno before and after? That'd be great.

harryw

I live in sunny Newcastle (which for those who don't know is about 2 hours north of Sydney) we have 3 dealers, and I wanted to buy locally.

I went to the first one, asked to look at the car which was locked, and the guy just looked at me straight faced and said "are you just looking or are you going to buy one", I walked out.

Went to the second, still waiting to hear from him in regards to a trade in on my Clubsport.

Went to the third, asked for a trade on my car and he said, " no mate, not taking trades" and he walked off!

Went back to the first one, lust to really have a look at the car again, was approached by a trainee who couldn't do enough for me. I said something to her about the first bloke, she went and got the boss who then looked after me 150% and thanked me for giving them another chance!

We'll see how it all works out! I don't think it's just Nissan dealers though, all Holden dealers I have dealt with are the same and all motorcyle dealers are the same if not worse!

Sorry to rant and get off the subject

H

apsilon

Off topic but I went to 6 dealers before the one I finally went with. Unfortunately they went through staff changes not long after I placed the order and they were certainly changes for the worse. Just Nissan bringing them in line with their standards I guess

Anyway just got off the phone with someone else at the dealership who was actually helpful so we'll see how it pans out. I now have an engine and chassis number and they expect the car either over the weekend or Monday so looks like my wait will soon be over Sorry for going a little off topic

Back to power output. Just a thought but would Nathan be willing to dyno his car (I'm sure they'll be doing more testing at some point) along with a couple of other Zs at the same time. It'd help to see exactly what differences there are between the JDM cars and ours. Ideally it'd be nice to get cars with similar mods.

Z350Lover

iTrader: (2)

Sorry to hear that Dave, but don't worry... there will be more things coming out for our Zs!

It is always hard to tune up a N/A car especially if you don't change any internal to enlarge the capacity, but that way is really limited as well... if you want heaps of power and torque, turbo will talk, but that will lose the beauty of this N/A engine!

It is always different to compare the US dyno result and the AUS dyno result because we are basically using different dyno machine. So I don't really care about it as long as there is a gain in the output, I will be happy!

But after seeing your dyno curve... well... it ensures that M3 is much easier to tune up compare to the Z, because I just changed the exhaust and the air filter, it jumped from 170 KW to 185KW at the wheels without a problem.... I will attach my dyno curve "after" the exhaust and the K&N factory replacement filter because I lost my original dyno charts already and somehow I cannot be able to find the "before" one.... I think it might be due to M3's standard 6 throttle bodies with 6 trumpet tubes and the airbox that make the engine much easier to be tuned up! But as long as there is a gain, I will be happy!!! it is still pretty good man!!!

Also to the Jap version, I think our ECU should be the same though since all the numbers quoted from Jap. are the same as our figures.... unless Nissan is lying to us about OUR figures and just simply use Jap spec. figure? Someone will have to look into this matter if this is true!!!

cheers,

richie

bobbo

Several US dyno results show ~180KW at the wheels
they use 95RON fuel or less.. how can the aus spec be
getting ~150kw ish with 98RON fuel? wtf? US climate conditions
are similar to Australia in summer/winter in many areas..
perhaps if we can get a copy of the US ECU....

ZZZ-35

Firstly US fuel is rated differently ranging from 89 - 95 octane, 98 Ron is about 91 octane I think, I saw a post giving the conversion also I think Nissan Aust. have tune the car to run on our worst fuel 91Ron (standard ULP) just in case someone in the bush runs on it, so's to protect there warranty.

180kW at the wheels that's only a 15% drive chain loss, if only! then we should be getting 175kW at the wheels?

imhotep@adsl.on.net

Just check the General forum..have seen plenty postings over the last few months with dyno graphs right up there in the high 170s!

Can't recall what they're using to get the results or what gear though..and that can make a big difference

apsilon

And remeber that 150 here is probably 165 - 170 there.

SHIFTZ

hmmm i thought as much. Sorry to hear about the low power ZZZ35. Aus always gets short changed the high powered versions coz of our **** quality fuel.

The comment about the Nissan dealers is so true. One service guy couldnt seem to fathom that my Alfa had a semi-manual gearbox!!! All i got was "duh" stares when explaining.

Also quite unhappy to hear the post about Nissan refusing to check out the clunk in the suspension. Lance Dixon Alfa fitted me a brand new steering wheel coz the little selespeed badge fell off LOL, then fitted a new gearknob to match the new leather wheel ROFL. I would have thought Nissan would try a bit harder with the new cars in terms of after purchase care, afterall it is an expensive car.

Since all u guys combined represent the majority of 350Z owners, y dont u forward ur complaints about the dealers to Nissan Aus.

apsilon

I fully intend to. I'm still marginal on the Z as it is and the dealers aren't helping at all. It's as if they honestly couldn't care if they get the sale let alone be concerned over customer service. I'd be willing to bet the only reason they were helpful today is because end of month is coming up and they'd like to have the sale for the month.

nismor33

Well I dont know what to say after this afternoon !

I took the car in for first service, to get my kick plates and mats that were part of the deal and then get the window grease and rattle fixed and the clunk looked at.

These are not major faults and very quick fixes. I provided the service manager with the info.

When I got the car, no mats no kick plates. They were not in his system that I should have them but he never rang me or the sales team to confirm.

His fix for the grease was to wipe it off and the rattle and the clunk he cant hear !!!!!

Well I was calm until he told me the US car and our car is very different and the fix for the clunk and the grease are different and dont apply to us. Also "...why should I waste my time to fix something I wont get paid from Nissan for???" was his comment !

I am not put off the car and for those reading this that dont have yours yet - the car is awesome! Just find a good dealer or workshop to service it! Anyway the general manager is sorting it all so all is good again.

Driving awesome anyway ! Trying to get a Jap spec ECU and waiting for a call re a US one. WIll let you know.

Mike

SHIFTZ

harryw i loved ur post about the dealer.....so funny. Similar thing happened to me when i first visited a dealer here in Melbourne.

I saw the car at the back and pulled up to check it out with my mate. Admittedly i was wearing a hat and uni clothes....the car was locked and in trying to open the door a dealer came running out voicing "what r u doing here".....to which i reply, "ur a dealership, im looking at a car". He asked if i was genuinly interested, i said yes dependant on a test drive. He was very hesitant and replied with that "ppl have bought the car without driving" claptrap.

The next day i roll up with my dad and was told the car was out on a test run and to come back the next day, Saturday (even tho we saw it parked out back b4 walking inside). In walking back to my dads car, the dealer i saw the previous day was outside, saw us getting into a 360 spider, and hurried over to confirm we have the car for an hour Saturday morning LOL.

Long story short.....we caned that thing come Saturday

Z350Lover

iTrader: (2)

sam,

it is richard here! how are you going?

That's a really HUGE difference between the alfa dealer and the nissan dealer.... I love the part the the sales actually saw your father's 360 modena convert and came out to chase you guys.... hahaha... that was the fun part.... I think you should just tell the guy off and switch to another dealer without going back man! When are you getting your car???? and have you sold your alfa yet?

well.... at least my Nissan dealer has been REALLY REALLY GOOD to me and the service people and sales can still remember my name VERY WELL! (I don't have 4 arms or 5 legs, but just an ordinary guy!) My dealer is: Garry Roger Nissan near the Glen shopping center, they are really nice to their customers! thats also why I don't mind driving around 20 to 30 min just to do a service over there from canterbury suburb.

cheers,

richie