My car got it's 1000km service yesterday, so today I took it for it's 1st proper 'test drive' where I pushed the car on both power and cornering. The 'hoon' was really only about 5km or so of twisties I know real well (ie. like the back of my hands) and here's some impressions:

- Engine is still unimpressive. Main problem I have at the moment is that it's very unexciting .... it does not make me want to get the power out of it and I often find myself short shifting at 6000rpm just because it does not feel like it has much more to give. Sometimes the engine does remind me that it pulls, but it's all at lower to mid revs. Hopefully the hi-tech exhaust will help with this as I'd love to feel like you getting your 'moneys worth' when you pushing the engine.

- The back end of the car has a lot of grip. I pushed it pretty hard throught some of the corners and did not break traction at the rear ... and this is 2nd gear corners I'm talking about. Under power the back was glued and so it was under cornering loads. Then again, I'm still new to the car and I'm sure that I'm not pushing it as hard as it'll go.

- Which brings me to my next point, I have reached the limits of the front-end-grip on practically every 2nd corner. Maybe I'm not driving it right, but I'm expecting a lot more grip from the front and it's just not delivering. The front feels nice and grippy when driving at 7 - 8/10th, but at 9/10th (or above) the front just gives up. I'm expecting it to grip and pull me around a corner and it just understeers, maybe it's just too nose heavy? But than that should give it more grip at the front, no?! Seems like I have to slow down the corner-entry a lot more than I'm used to, but at speeds I'm traveling I'm still expecting the front to grip.

- I also tried getting on power at the apex a few times ... that is when having the front under control and gripping. Though, applying more power resulted again in understeer. I was hoping for more of a 'drift' out of the corner or just outright grip, but maybe I'm noty driving it 'right' and need to adjust my driving style to suit the car.

- In one corner I got the brake-assist to 'interfere' with my driving. I was braking really hard and deep into one (2nd gear) turn. The corner was a bit off-camber and when I was just about to sense the back starting to drift the ABS kicked in one (or two) wheels and spolied all the fun. It did not upset the car, but it did startle me a little bit as I was not expecting the ABS to do that at that point.

- I went through one faster corner (ie. about 130 - 135kph corner in the S2000), but it was my 1st time through it in the Zed so I am still a bit weary. I took it at around 120kph as I was afraid that it wouldl understeer off the corner if I went any faster. Though, to it's credit, at 120kph the car was very solid and there was no loss of grip at the front (or back). Next time I'll try going a little bit quicker and see it it's got anymore to give.

- Brakes feft good, but you could really feel the mass of the car. It feels like I have to brake harder and earlier than I'm used in order to pull up the car. I could feel the heat from the brakes, but from from what I read and gather the Zed's Bremos will stop with the best of them. So (hofpefully), I just need to re-adjust my senses, brake hard and late, and rely on the brakes despite the feeling of the mass. I'll try and push them harder as I get more and more used to the car.

- Steering felt good, but I did not get to 'exercise' it too much as the biggest problem I had was the understeer and therefore I could not really balance the car with the steering wheel. I need to learn to drive the car so the front does not slip as than I should be able to balance it more with the wheel.

- Another interesting obesrvation - the revs seem to stay up for a really long time when up-changing. It seems as the CPU holds the throttle for a fraction of a second when you want to up-change. That means that the revs shoot up slighlty after I press the clutch in and then when I grab the next gear the revs are not mached with the wheels (ie. they are too high). This results in a rough upchange and the only way I can drive around it is by slowing down my upchanges. That is the last thing I want to do while trying to go fast ... if anything I want to speed up my up-changes. So what is going on here and why is it there? Am I imagining things? How do you get a smooth up-change when accelerating hard?

- Not sure if this is due to the above point, or just credit to the Zed's power, but the car was 'chirping' the rear wheels not only on the 1st-to-2nd gear-change but also on the 2nd-to-3rd gear-change. Considering that it was good 30+ degrees out there and the road was hot, this is not a small feat. Have others experienced this as well?

So, in summary, I'm not totally impressed, but I see potential in the car. Hopefully the engine delivery will be improved with the exhaust, but not sure what to do about the understeer at the moment. Will try and drive around it.

 

Well I think you have summarized very well what most feel. The engine I think is deceiving with it flat torque curve and not getting that quick of sudden torque at a certain RPM, but it definetly feels great around the 4-5K range. The exhauts will help some.

As for the understeer, it was built in by Nissan, to reduce it some swaybars will help and changing front tires to the same size as the rears will almost get you there, but then be careful as you might get into oversteer.

Good luck and have fun modding.

 

Well mate it's not like I didn't tell you... 9/10 understeer 1/10 oversteer. I said that a while back ...

As for the lack of power up top, get the Hi-tech. I dynoed 21rwkw for me and it just kicks butt past 4000rpm.

You're initial feel is pretty much what everyone has said regarding the car. It almost feels unsafe to push the car hard into the corners.
What I am happy with is the fact that the Brembos WILL stop you, regardless of that "i'm trying to stop a truck feel".

As Tadashi in Best Motoring said, the LS diff and auto braking ruins the potential of the car and forces you to drive it like a Corvette without the power (i'm paraphrasing).

It's a good entry level sports car that you'd be hard pressed to have an accident in.

Disappointed? Somewhat... I'm sure once I know how to drive this thing as well as Tadashi that they will have a way of turning off that pesky TC computer.

BTW the revs stay up there because of that uber heavy chunk of metal Nissan calls a flywheel. If you haven't seen the vids on that Tilton flywheel get it in the main forum..very quick response.

 

All I can say is "what a ****" - you sound like you are disappointed that your car doesn't handle like a F1......if your S2000 was so much better you should have kept it. To be honest, half of the people on here sound like arm chair racers....stop over analysing the car and just enjoy....you sound like a bunch of "ricers"

 

Hey nsw350z - play nice.

Isn't that what were doin' here? Enjoyin' the car by talkin' about it? I can't say that I'm even an "armchair racer" but I have learned a lot from people bein' objective about the car and discussing ways to improve it.

I have met Davidm and he seems pretty genuine. And I can guess that just because he talks about the car this way he is still really enjoyin' it - and enjoying the analysing the possibilities of makin' it go faster. It's just his way ....

So maybe you should stop over analysing HIS thread and start an interesting one yourself. Would love to hear your views on the car.

LionKing

 

Yeah people have a right to give their opinion on the car. That's what forum created for.

 

Great post David,

I think this is a very accurate assessment of the car's handling. Definitely more understeer than I would like, but nothing you can't get used to/allow for. Has anyone tried putting the same size tyres on the front as on the back?

I bought the Hi-tech exhaust from Z350lover, and like you, will be looking forward to the gains others have found around the top end (and the sound!!!).

 

All I can say is "what a ****" - you sound like you are disappointed that your car doesn't handle like a F1......if your S2000 was so much better you should have kept it.

I'll make it simple - F360 is exactly what I'm after. Obviously I cannot afford it, but that does not mean that my expectations are any less. I want a car that feels very much like soemthing like that and is primarily a 'driver's cars'. I have no brand loyalty and will go with what seems to be the best car for me at that moment. Maybe I'll get another S2000 one day, maybe not ... for the moment I'm sticking with the Zed and seeing out how much I can tailor it to suit me. I'm enjoying it and looking forward to tracking it.

To be honest, half of the people on here sound like arm chair racers....stop over analysing the car and just enjoy....you sound like a bunch of "ricers"

"Armchair racer"? I'm not sure how much more hands-on can I be? I got the car, I am driving it and pushing it (as hard as I feel comfortable). What more can I do but drive it and try and address the things that don't suit me? Maybe you might want to come to the track with me (and the other guys who will join me) ... hardly what I'd call 'armchar racing'.

Also, doesn't the term 'ricers' imply a group of people who modify cars for all show-and-no-go? From the 'sound' of it, I'd say we are talking about the exact opposite (ie. more go, less show).

Definitely more understeer than I would like, but nothing you can't get used to/allow for. Has anyone tried putting the same size tyres on the front as on the back?

I have been thinking the same. I think that putting the 245/45/18" tyres at the front as well would improve things for me. The current Elise has similar problem (ie. too much understeer), but Lotus provides wider front tyrers out of the factory with addresses the issue for the hard-core drivers. Anyone got a set 2nd hand OME 245/45/18 tyres going cheap? Would be worth trying.

And I can guess that just because he talks about the car this way he is still really enjoyin' it - and enjoying the analysing the possibilities of makin' it go faster.

Thanks, and yes, I am just being objective. Does not mean that the car does not offer me enjoyment ... I just think that if I can address a couple of 'issues' then it will offer even more enjoyment to me.

I am not afraid to say that 'my car is not the best car in the world'. The S2000 had some issues which I needed to address and so does the Zed. S2000's main issue was how to keep the rear-of-the-car tied down as much as possible (or more than OME and on par with the front), getting the 'approriate' suspension set-up (ie. adjustable), and there's always the issue of lack of low-down grunt. Not much you can do about the low-down grunt on the S2000, but you can tailor the suspension to your liking.

At the moment I'd say that the S2000 does a lot of things better and handling wouod be on top of that list. Though the Zed does do a lot of things better too, and probably the main thing is the broad power range, more high-speed urge and also the very planted back. Each car (and that goes for other cars too) has its pros and cons.

If I can get more grip at the front and better engine delivery at higher revs, then I'd say that I have addressed most issues and that will make me that much happier with the car.

 

lol...first all Australian flame thread.

I understand what nsw350z is saying about over analysing the car, as I said in my post it'll take me getting to drive as well as a pro driver before I NEED the TC braking turned off.

And as proved in Best Motoring, you can't drift with the std car. I suspect the US pro drifters can fill us in on what they did to make the car drift. I suspect some TC work and a changed diff.

I think calling people ricers is a bit much though...tehehehee... I'm yet to install a GTR bumper sticker.

As for understeer, I found that to be the only serious problem at Wakefield. Some corners just had to be taken slow...

Look at it this way though. For a daily driver it beats every other car in it's class hands down. (IMHO)

David, have you considered sway bars to reduce the understeer? OR even easier take off the front strut bar.

 

And as proved in Best Motoring, you can't drift with the std car. I suspect the US pro drifters can fill us in on what they did to make the car drift. I suspect some TC work and a changed diff.

The Brake Assist did not bother me too much in the corner (it was more an anoynce of it messing with my driving). Also, I only had it happen once so far so no big deal yet. Afterall, I don't really want to drift the car, I just want to go fast and where I point it :-)

David, have you considered sway bars to reduce the understeer? OR even easier take off the front strut bar.

I have thought about it, but ideally I'd like to keep both. Maybe the swaybar could use changing for something smaller. Though, I would 1st like to try the 245/45/18 tyres at the front and then the camber kit. I am hoping that would be enough as I do not want to turn the car into a tail-happy monster either. Will do one thing at the time to make sure that I'm on the right track .... for the moment I'll try the allignement and playing with the tyre pressures.

Look at it this way though. For a daily driver it beats every other car in it's class hands down. (IMHO)

You're not far off. Today I was thinking that the car is by far at it's best when driven at 4 - 7/10th. ie. when on 1/2 throttle, short-shifting and driving well within the limits through the corners. I really just want to improve/change it in the 8 - 10/10th range.

As for understeer, I found that to be the only serious problem at Wakefield. Some corners just had to be taken slow...

I would like for the car to be at it's best when under situations like that (ie. tracking). I've been pushing pretty hard lately though my 'test loop' and I went there again today. I have some more observations:

- I really punished the brakes today and the car does stop well and the brakes seemed to cope (despite the smoke coming off them afterwards :-) Maybe that was part of my problem yesterday as I did not brake as well/hard as I would in the S2000. When braking hard, I was hitting my apexes (ie. no loss of front end grip) and the car felt much more balanced.

- With my improved braking, I tried slowing down the entry enough for the front not to be washing out. The car was a lot more balanced and almost can be drifted (front and back) out of the corner under power. Problem is if I try and keep anywhere the entry speed of what I would in the S2000 (we are talking about 5-10kph higher entry speed), then it just goes into understeer and the only way out of it is to wait 'till the speed washes off (which seems like eternity when pushing hard).

- I am running I got 36/36psi tyre pressures (front/back) at the moment so I'll try fiddling with them to see if things improve. I'll try putting the front to 40psi, and if that does not work to 32psi (ie. in the other direction) and see what happens.

- I managed to drift (ever so slightly) the back. Once around a roundabout on the exit and under power. The back moved maybe 3 - 4 inches. I did not have to do anything drastic to bring the car back on line and it all seemed very controlled and progressive.

- I hit 180kph today and observed that the car feels in particluar quick between 100 and 180kph. It seems that once in the 3rd gear it actually feels pretty quick ... surorising that it would not in 1st and 2nd gear. Then again, I said exaclty the same thing about Porsche 911s as they do not feel particuarly quick ion1st and 2nd, but are rockets from 100+ kph and hit 200kph so quick it's not funny.

 

Well from the reviews I've seen the Zed is rock stable at the rev limiter on the speed trials.

It's a perfect car for European highways.

 

I've been over 220 loads of times with a max of 240. haven't quite gotten to the limiter. Very quick up to 180. Acceleration does slow a bit after 200 but still pulls pretty hard. Car was very steady and had lots of confidence at those speeds.

 

I had the hi-tech exhaust fittted at Doctor Auto (very good guys there who are 'car nuts' so I'd recommend them to anyone). Also I have changed my tyre-pressures to 33/36psi (front/back) to (hopefully) help with the understeer problem I'm having. I again went throught the same stretch of the roads that I mentioned above. Car felt better ... in couple corners I cought myseft actually 'playing' with the wheel to balance the car (woohoo, some driver input :-) . It was transitioning between mild understeer and oversteer out of the corners. Though, the car still does not 'want to' pull itself around corners with the front-wheels and would rather just go straight when I up the entry speed. If feels like I have to wait a long time before I can get on the power and at the same time I really have to slow down the entry into corners. The car felt better, but it looks like I'll have to do something more drastic (ie. different swaybars and/or camber kit). I'll get it alligned first and still try different pressures to see what works, but I'm pretty sure pressures and allignent alone will not be enough to cull tame the understeer on this car.

I also went throught the fast sweeper again ... the one I mentioned in the original post here. This time I took it at 125kph and had 130kph on the exit and the car felt great. No hint of loosing grip, just loded up g-forces na dbalanced. Will try upping it a bit more next time.

Now onto the Hi-tech exhaust (though, I got K&N filter fitted in at the same time). I have to second what everyone else has already mentioned - 'this is how the track-model (at least) should have come equipped from the factory'. Now it feels (and sounds) like an engine that is in a sportscar instead of a family V6 Commodore. I'd liken the engine delivery and feel very much to Boxster S engine (ie. 3.2L flat-6), which is one of my most favourtite cars out there (I amost bought one on more than one occasion).

The sound is ceratainly lounder than stock, but that is an easy thing to do as you could not hear the OME exhaust at all. It's still very quiet, in particular at idle or low revs. Though, with 4000+ rpm it sounds a bit like a 1300cc Jap bike. Very nice sound which enhances the enjoyment of the car.

Besides the sound there is a noticable improvemnt in performance at 5000+ rpm. It actually feels like the engine gets a 2nd wind there and ramps on more power to redline .... makes me want to keep the engine at 5000+ rpm. Beforehand I found myself shifting at 6000rpm or so when pushing hard. Now I often find myself bouncing of the rev-limiter here and there as the engine seems like it's pulling nicely there. The response at 3000 - 4000rpm seems better too .... in particluar in 3rd gear.

Not sure how much any of this will translate into outright acceleration, but I'll try and find out next week. Still, now I actually get excited to use that engine ... before it was very unexciting engine which was not really suited for 'having fun'. Now it's exciting using it, and using every last bit of the rev range.

ps. My father (who has the HSV R8) took the car for a spin today as well. He's driven it before (ie. last time last weekend) and he absolutelly loved what the hi-tech exhaust has done to the car. He could not get enough of the sound and revs. He also commented on how this is now a very different car compared to what it was from the factory. The grin on his face was priceless :-)

 

lol

Let me say that I told you so!

Now you'll be able to embarass all those std 350z owners too.
And I bet you you'll smoke the WRX, not so sure about the R8 though....too much torque in a straight line race.

 

Let me say that I told you so!

Hey, I had to see it myself 1st hand ... but the results are great so far :-)

And I bet you you'll smoke the WRX, not so sure about the R8 though....too much torque in a straight line race.

Well see about the WRX bellow 100kph as that is where it was literally glused to my side mirror. I'll see if this time I am making any gainst at those speeds.

As far as the R8 goes, it will always win when going from a higher gear or from low revs ... that's just pure torque doing the talking there. Though, once on the move the S2000 (with it's measly 208Nm of torque) could pull a couple of car-lengths on the R8 ... that is the power/gearing doing the talking. I don't see any reason why the Zed could not do the same once run and with some mods (like the exhaust that I alrady have :-) Again will try and find out in a near future.