DavidM

Me and Lionking have finally met up for some comparision testing between the Auto and Manual Zeds. To start of, Lionking took me for a spin in his Auto and I must say that it is by far the best and most responsive Auto box that I've had the pleasure to experience ... and that is comparing it even to the Tiptronic in the Boxster as well as 911.

Back to the 'test'. LionKing has a Touring model (ie. 17" wheels) with the Auto and I have the Track model (ie. 18" wheels) with Manual and Hi-tech exhaust. I have around 4000km and Lionking arund 26,000km on the car. Each car only had the driver and I had 3/4+ full tank (is. ~50kg of fuel) ... not sure about Lionking.

Anyway we did about 20 runs all together and at least 1/2 of them were from standing start. Here's roughly how things went:

test #1: 0 - 125kph, standing start, manual launched from 3000rpm and Auto from idle:
Surprisingly the Auto looses only around 1/2 a car-length in the launch. I'd say that my launches were pretyty good, even though not the best as I had a bit too much wheelspin. After the car hookep up, I slowly pulled alway towards the top of 1st gear and same with the 2nd gear. I maybe pulled another 1 car-length before we shut down at 130kph. We did this a few times and it seemed to be consistent. The Auto seemed to be making a little bit of the ground back each time the Manual car made a change as it could hold the gear longer. So there would be at most 1.5 car lengths advantage to the Manual. If I was not perfect with the launch or gear-changes, then the gap was as small as 1/2 a car-length.

test #2: 0 - 130kph, standing start, manual launched from 2000rpm and Auto from 2000:
This time I tried lower revs to limit the amount of wheelspin. Though launching from 2000rpm saw me spin the wheels for a second and then bog down a bit too much. On the other hand the Auto shot away to good 1.5 car-length lead straight away. After that I was slowly making the ground back (ie. about 1/2 a car in each gear) so we were just about even when we shut down at around 130kph.

test #3: 10 - 180kph, starting in 1st gear both cars:
This time we went from a low speed rolling start. When we punched it, the Auto got maybe 1 - 2 feet ahead of me (ie. the nose). Could have been a timing inconsistency or maybe the Auto pulling better at that speed. With the Manual I only had just over 1000rpm, but it would be about the same for the Auto, but it might slip the clutch a bit at those speeds. I made up that gap and edged a nose ahead by the end of 1st geat (ie. 60kph), and then slowly pulled away all the way to about 140kph. By that stage I had maybe 1.5 - 2 car-lengths lead but had to make the 3rd-to-4th gear-change. On the other hand the Auto stayed in 3rd and gained back at me. By about 160kph it clawed back good 1/2 to 1 car lengths and then it did not change that much to 180kph. So I was around 1 - 1.5 car-lengths ahead at around 180kph.

test #4: 15 - 160kph, starting in 1st gear both cars:
This time when we punched it, the Auto pulled away from me 1.5 car-lengths instantly. It was not Lionking getting on power early by my car just having a small hick-up as I punched the throttle ... it felt like the car just bogged for a fraction of a second. From than on I was slowly gaining and by around 130kph we were side by side. Then I pulled away maybe 1/2 a car at most before 160kph when we shut down. Again, from 140kph (ie. in 4th gear) the Manual was at best as quick as the Auto.

test #5: 0 - 170kph, standing start, manual launched from 3000rpm and Auto from 2000:
This time we lined it up from standsill again. I got a flawless launch and shot away good 1 car length straigh away. On the other hand Lionking got too much wheelspin so it was not the best start for him. Afer that I was creeping away and by about 160kph I was at most 4 car-lengths ahead. I shut down at 170kph but things did not change much there.

There was going to be 'test #6' which was going to be the re-run on the above (but hopefully with a better launch from the Auto). Though, that was abborted for good reasons ... Lionking can tell you all about it ;-)

So in summary:
- From standstill the manual will get about 1/2 a car-length on the Auto if you nail the launch on both cars. Though, it's relatively easy to stuff up the launch in the Manual and if you do so, then the Auto will get a jump on you.

- Once moving, my Manual with Hi-tech exhaust was quicker, but it was pretty marginal ... I'd say around 1/2 a car-length advantage in each of the 1st three gears. Not much more. I'd say that if I did not have the Hi-tech exhaust then there'd be nothing between the cars up to around 140kph.

- From 140kph to around 165kph I'd say that the Auto is a fraction quicker then even my Manual with Hi-tech. The Auto is in 3rd here while the Manual needs to be in 4th gear. I'd say that if I did not have the Hi-tech exhaust, then the Auto would be noticably quicker in this increment.

- Over 165kph the Manula should be quicker, but because we were shutting down at 170 - 180kph, it did not give us much room/time to observe. Though, in that second or two the advantage (if there was any) was not noticable.

- It's interesting to see the different gear-ratios between the Auto and Manual in action. You can see the Manual (with Hi-tech) pulling away throught the gear, then make a gear-change and over the next couple seconds loose some of the ground it made up as the Auto stay in the gear longer.

- I did not notice me (ie. Manual) making up any ground on gear-changes. I would have thought that the Auto will loose a bit of ground on each gear-change, but it certainly did not. I seems to be just as effective as a quick manual change. Maybe that was partically do to the manual-change always producing a bit of wheel-spin (in particular in the first 3 gear).

- I'm guessing that an Auto Zed can post the same (if not better) times in a 1/4mile than stock Manual. Partially becuase it only needs 2 gear-changes to cover the 1/4mile, while the manual needs 3. The only way I can see a Manual Zed beating the Auto in the 1/4mile is by it hooking up really well of the line, and getting a good jump on the Auto. I'm guessing that the Hi-Tech Manual is maybe 0.3 - 0.4sec quicker over the 1/4mile at best (ie. with optimal launch and gear-changes).

- I'm guessing that to 100kph the Auto Zed will be quicker than the Manual (as the manual needs 2nd-to-3rd gear-change). Even with the Hi-tech exhaust you'd have hard time beating it to 100kph for that reason. Only way you can make up that 1/2 a sec lost in the gear-change, is by getting some super launch on some sticky asphalt where the Auto would not be able to launch from that high revs.

bhk1004

iTrader: (6)

I Dont really see the point in this comparison rite now... I mean its not even like its stock against stock. Id say that you pulling away from him around half a car length has more 2 do with the fact that you are driving with an exhaust than the fact that you have a stick. Honestly I doubt that there is THAT big of a difference between the stick and auto. Yes, if the stick driver is very skilled there will be a difference, but pulling on every gear? thats not the stick thats the extra HP probably somewhere between 7-10 at the rear wheel that is allowing you 2 pull half a car length every gear

bhk1004

iTrader: (6)

if youd like 2 fly out 2 jersey after I Get my injen straight tip exhaust in 2-3 weeks id more than love 2 let u try this against an auto with exhaust and see how that works out. Would be more interesting. Unfair advantage id say if only you had the exhaust. You know I think you would pull on a stick about the same also....

lionking

There was going to be 'test #6' which was going to be the re-run on the above (but hopefully with a better launch from the Auto). Though, that was abborted for good reasons ... Lionking can tell you all about it ;-)

"Just one more run...." Famous last words!!!

Had a great time with David runnin around the testing area. We did some drags and I was very pleasantly surprised at the results. I was unsure for a while about my choice to get the auto. But now I'm totally sold. Comparing with the manual the auto doesn't give nearly as much control but it is a much smoother ride through gear changes (up and down). It's a very different experience to drive in each. Love the manual but happy with my choice now. I would also like to say that David is an excellent driver. He took me for a lap or two and ... Oh yea, you don't get a ride like that at Disneyworld.

Anyway, we were doin' some drags. After the last one I was a bit disappointed with the run. David got a perfect launch and I got a lousy one. Couldn't get traction and spun the tyres badly. The results are posted above. I REALLY wanted to have an equal run where we both had good starts so I suggested "one last run" - and at the time made a big speech about bein' scared sh!tless of losin' my license. Anyway we lined up. I lit up the tyres to check the road surface for how grippy it was - I didn't want to spin out again. Then re-lined and started. By the way I got an awesome launch.

There were some headlights in the distance behind that David was watching. He was a bit distracted so he had a crap launch. This car behind looked a bit sus to him so David shut down early- just in case. I was in front and oblivious and went well over speed limit before shutting down and was ready to keep goin to 180. I thought we'd just re-set and go again. When I changed lanes the mystery car pulled up right behind me in the turning lane. A FULLY MARKED POLICE CAR!!! FARK!!!!! (I know I'm not supposed to say FARK!!! 'cause I'll get in trouble) but FAAAAARK!!!
Thought I was toast. I made the turn and watched him just sit there for a minute then drive off. He must have been sittin behind us the entire time watchin us line up and me doin burnouts. FAAARK!!! (Sorry, I'll try not to say FARK anymore so I don't get in trouble)
Thanks David for the keen eye and better judgement!!!

Had a great time (aside from the ending - although it turned out to be a relatively happy one).

DavidM

Id say that you pulling away from him around half a car length has more 2 do with the fact that you are driving with an exhaust than the fact that you have a stick. Honestly I doubt that there is THAT big of a difference between the stick and auto.

I don't disagree with any of that. Actually, that is roughly what I said in the 'conclusion' part of my post. I'd say that the manual has an advantage in the 'launch' but that's about it (iin terms of acceleration that is). I'd go as far as to say that the Auto is better suited to 1/4mile runs as it's got probably the perfect gearing for that.

... probably somewhere between 7-10 at the rear wheel that is allowing you 2 pull half a car length every gear...

More like 20hp here as we are starting with 273hp unlike you guys. Still, I agree with the point you're making. I would not be surprised to see a stock Manual loose it's fair share of drags to the Auto.

"Just one more run...." Famous last words!!!

That was my sentiment exactly. Though, it all worked out ... closest call I've had aroudn there ever (or more point someone who i have been there with ;-)

ps. Lionking, any idea how much fuel you had on board?

lionking

ps. Lionking, any idea how much fuel you had on board?

Started about 85% full. Finished with much less!

ottonove

very interesting read
wish I could be there too, to see what difference is there between my car and DavidM's

DavidM

Started about 85% full. Finished with much less!

That's great ... so we had roughly the same amount of fuel on board. I was thinking that the anount of fuel can have an infuence on these things as the Zed's tank is 73L (ie. around 60kg) so the difference between full and almost empty is good 50kg. You'd think that 50kg has to have some effect on the perfrormance.

As it was, in terms of weight, I'm strock bar the weight saving by the exhaust ... which could be good 10kg.

Comparing with the manual the auto doesn't give nearly as much control but it is a much smoother ride through gear changes (up and down).

On the way home I was thinking that my car felt rougher/stiffer than your car. I know that the Auto gearbox is smoother and hence will feel more 'refined', but it's the suspension I'm talking about. Did you feel the same, or is it just me? I'm pretty sure that it has a lot ot do with the 18" whees (with 45 profile rubber) compared to 17" (with 50 profile rubber) as the suspension/setup is suprosed to be the same.

The tyre pressures may also infuence something like this as well, so what pressures are you running Lionking? I'm running 40/36psi (cold) on the front/back.

lionking

On the way home I was thinking that my car felt rougher/stiffer than your car. I know that the Auto gearbox is smoother and hence will feel more 'refined', but it's the suspension I'm talking about. Did you feel the same, or is it just me? I'm pretty sure that it has a lot ot do with the 18" whees (with 45 profile rubber) compared to 17" (with 50 profile rubber) as the suspension/setup is suprosed to be the same.


Yea, I kinda thought you were a lot stiffer when you took me on the hot laps. It's so hard to tell though as a passenger and I was putting it down to rougher gear changes. Also the amount of km's I've done could have slightly softened the suspention a bit. Even watching you when we were playing chase I was thinking that your car looked stiffer than mine felt. I dunno. It's a hard thing to gauge.

I wonder if there's a difference between the track/touring stiffness?

The tyre pressures may also infuence something like this as well, so what pressures are you running Lionking? I'm running 40/36psi (cold) on the front/back.

I checked my tyres at the servo while I was waiting. Don't know how accurate the gauge was there but I put them at 36/36. I forgot to ask before if you were 40 in the front or back so I just went 36 all around.

As it was, in terms of weight, I'm strock bar the weight saving by the exhaust ... which could be good 10kg.


I recon you've got at least 10 kg's bodyweight on me anyway. There's also a slight difference in weight between the manual/auto and the track/touring. I'm still carrying the spare too.

DavidM

I wonder if there's a difference between the track/touring stiffness?

I was under that impression, but according to Nissan there's no difference. Then again, according to Nissan both Manual and Auto have the seme rev-limit.

I checked my tyres at the servo while I was waiting. Don't know how accurate the gauge was there but I put them at 36/36.

That electronic pump is spot on as I have verified it with a hand-hald pressure gauge. I ofen check my pressures there.

I forgot to ask before if you were 40 in the front or back so I just went 36 all around.

40psi at the front. I'm still happy with it as it seems to give me the best balance and most ront-end grip at the moment.

I'm still carrying the spare too.

Me too. Just the exhaust that 'lightens' my car from stock.

Blue Dream

O/T: Does the ozzie spec car have the 188km/h limiter? I have it and its annoying to say the least. On another note, its good to know the auto can hang with the manual. Nice write up

harryw

No I think ours is 250. Havent got there to find out, been close though.

As always

H

shimz350z

i'm almost fully convinced this steptronic is slower then keeping on automatic.

mchapman

iTrader: (1)

I second.
250 km/hr Limiter in AU.

Blue Dream

Thanx for the quick reply guys

Z350Lover

iTrader: (2)

Blue Dream,

You have got a nice car there too.... looks exactly the same as mine but in different colour!

Wow... your z is the first in Brunei, is it very rare there? because my client in Brunei is actually looking forward to buy one as well over there and would like to go full nismo too...

cheers,

richie

Blue Dream

Richie,

Thanx for the compliments mate. Your car is awesome too.

I'm lucky to be the first 350z owner actually. First time i saw it arrive at the dealer i deposited my money right away. Its so beautiful i just had to have it hehe. The second Z actually arrived about 2 months later. I was overwhelmed by all the attention it brought! I think they are about 10-15 Z's now on the road.
They are about 2-3 Z's in the dealerships parking lot so i dont think ur client will have a hard time getting one.