Deca 21/02/04
02-21-2004, 12:36 AM
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Deca 21/02/04
Today I went to DECA (in Shepparton) with the MX5-club. This was my 1st 'outing' in the Zed and the MX5-club organized 8 different excercises/discipilnes for the day and I managed to have about 5 goes at each one before I packed up to go home at around 4pm. So, plenty of track-time time was available to all (if you can call it a track).
We had a nice selection of cars there, but I was the only Zed there. We had 3 S2000s, RX8, 180SX, Falcon XR6 Ute and a large number of MX5s ... some stock, some turboed, some tuned/modded foer the track and some on R-spec tyres (or all of the above).
Six out of the 8 disciplines/excercises were 'cone dodging' kind on the skid-pan (which was not wet today). Some were more 'open' and flowing while some others were as tight as a knot (and some were a combination of both). I was expecting the MX5's to well and trully kick my butt here as they are small, light and nimble ... exactly what you need here. Though, that was not the case, I held my own pretty well and even set the quickest time in some. The Zed did good. The power was awesome and so was the power down (even around tight corners) ... I was able to power-steer the car around a lot of cones. Brakes were perfect as well. Around the skid-pan (ie. speeds bellow 80kph) the 350Z predominantly wanted to understeer, but that is the case for most (if not all) cars there. You have to brake hard-enough so that when you turn-in, that there is enough grip and then use the power to swing the back around. If you got into understeer, then no amount of power would turn the car around and it would just push straight and the only solution was to back off (though, that is my experience with the S2000 or even HSV there). Therefore I had problems getting arund fast when the corners were really tight (ie. 270deg). Though, despite that here are some times that we managed to note down during the day (ie. best runs listed):
Code-dodging Excercise #1:
- best time of the day = around 30sec
- my 350Z = 31.19 (did this only once)
Code-dodging Excercise #2:
- quickest MX5 = 28.45
- my 350Z = 28.75
- 180SX = 34.6
- RX8 = 35.57
Code-dodging Excercise #3:
- quickest MX5 = 49.15
- my 350Z = 49.52
- S2000 = 54.54
- RX8 = 54.91
- 180SX = 57.50
Code-dodging Excercise #4:
- quickest MX5 = 23.91
- my 350Z = 26.97
- S2000 = 27.40
- RX8 = 27.44
- 180SX = 34.89
Code-dodging Excercise #5:
- my 350Z = 25.00
- quickest MX5 = 25.21
- 180SX = 25.43
- S2000 = 27.00
- RX8 = 27.70
Code-dodging Excercise #6:
- quickest MX5 = 27.98
- my 350Z = 32.22
- RX8 = 36.37
- S2000 = 36.56
- 180SX = 37.96
The tighter the code-dodging track was, the harder time I had keeping up with the MX5 guys (the quick ones that is). The more open the track, the better the car felt and performed. For instance the excercise #6 was five consecutive 270deg turns ... I could not get anywhere close the fast MX5 guys ... in particular without using the handbrake to start turning me around (which the MX5 guys were using, but I'm not that proficient with). On the other hand the excercises 3 and 5 were more 'open' and had other corners also, so I (and the Zed) could do better there.
The Excercise #7 was a big figure 8 (with an extra 'loop' ie. like 000) and that was was very rought on the tyres and was not very smooth. Doing the big slalom through there averaged around 60 - 70kph. Here the Zed was really good, noone (and no car) could come close to it:
- my 350Z = 30.26
- RX8 = 31.52
- S2000 = 31.70
- quickest MX5 = 31.80
- 180SX = 33.31
The Zed did incredibly well here ... it was just so solid and well planted, it felt like nothing could upset it. And when the back did step out, it was a breeze to correct and control without loosing any time. On the other hand, it was still possible to push the nose-wide with trying to carry too much speed. Solution was to back of lightly, wait for the front to come back on line, and give it more power again. That (depending on area/surface) resulted in the nose tucking in and keeping it on the limit, or the back slightly stepping out (which was welcome as it helpend me get the car around the bend).
The last excercise (Excercise #8), was on the 'handling loop' at the back. They had one 'discipline' where you had to make a lap as close to 60kph as possible (ie. slow) ... I could not do that ... I was good 20secs off even when sticking to the 'speed limits'. Though in the afternoon, they let us out there again when it was not being timed, and with a supervision of instructors. I managed to do good 10 laps there and they were all pretty fast laps (ie. as fast as I felt comfortable). The car felt very good here. Again, incredibly solid and well planted. The dips and andulations had a hard time upsetting it. It took a very good set through the corners and made it feel pretty eazy. Front was pushing a little bit too early for my liking, but nothing major here. Hard to say what speeds I was reaching on the straight as I was not threshold braking for the 1st corner (due to the posted speedlimits). Though, I did see high 150s on the speedo ;-)
Overall I can't recommend this even enough, and also the Zed stood up well to the task and perfromed well ... actually suprisingly well on the skidpan. I still wish for a bit more front-end grip as that would make the car more balanced for me, but generally speaking people were amazed as the speeds that it could carry around some of the curves. I was not dissapointed and had a lot of fun ... once I get a bit more grip at the front, there'll be very few things able to keep up with it (even at cone-dodging). And the back was just so controllable.
Though, I did get to find out how the VDC is still active even when switched off. Despite it being switched off, it would try (and often succeed) in straightening the car as it got sideways under heavy braking. I was actually trying to brake as hard as possible (around a bend/cone), and I did want the back to come around so that I can get on power and spin in around the cone. Though, I could only do it if I did not get the car sideways under braking .... the moment I did, the VDC would straighten the car for me and point me away from the cone (hardly what I wanted). Still, I don't think this will ever happen on the track as you don't swing the back out with brakes there ... it's main limitation is while cone-dodging. Also because the VDC promotes the car going straight, instead of swerve (even though sideways), I can see it this prossibly causing a crash when a car/bike/dog/etc pulls out right in front of you, and you hit the brakes hard and want to avoid it. The VDC will make you go straight for what you're trying to avoid if you get the car sideways under brakes.
ps. I got a fair few rides in the RX8, S2000s and even the 180SX. This was the 1st time for me in an RX8, and it does handle very well, even though it might be too soft/comfortable for my liking. It did have excellent balance though (and was very quiet).
We had a nice selection of cars there, but I was the only Zed there. We had 3 S2000s, RX8, 180SX, Falcon XR6 Ute and a large number of MX5s ... some stock, some turboed, some tuned/modded foer the track and some on R-spec tyres (or all of the above).
Six out of the 8 disciplines/excercises were 'cone dodging' kind on the skid-pan (which was not wet today). Some were more 'open' and flowing while some others were as tight as a knot (and some were a combination of both). I was expecting the MX5's to well and trully kick my butt here as they are small, light and nimble ... exactly what you need here. Though, that was not the case, I held my own pretty well and even set the quickest time in some. The Zed did good. The power was awesome and so was the power down (even around tight corners) ... I was able to power-steer the car around a lot of cones. Brakes were perfect as well. Around the skid-pan (ie. speeds bellow 80kph) the 350Z predominantly wanted to understeer, but that is the case for most (if not all) cars there. You have to brake hard-enough so that when you turn-in, that there is enough grip and then use the power to swing the back around. If you got into understeer, then no amount of power would turn the car around and it would just push straight and the only solution was to back off (though, that is my experience with the S2000 or even HSV there). Therefore I had problems getting arund fast when the corners were really tight (ie. 270deg). Though, despite that here are some times that we managed to note down during the day (ie. best runs listed):
Code-dodging Excercise #1:
- best time of the day = around 30sec
- my 350Z = 31.19 (did this only once)
Code-dodging Excercise #2:
- quickest MX5 = 28.45
- my 350Z = 28.75
- 180SX = 34.6
- RX8 = 35.57
Code-dodging Excercise #3:
- quickest MX5 = 49.15
- my 350Z = 49.52
- S2000 = 54.54
- RX8 = 54.91
- 180SX = 57.50
Code-dodging Excercise #4:
- quickest MX5 = 23.91
- my 350Z = 26.97
- S2000 = 27.40
- RX8 = 27.44
- 180SX = 34.89
Code-dodging Excercise #5:
- my 350Z = 25.00
- quickest MX5 = 25.21
- 180SX = 25.43
- S2000 = 27.00
- RX8 = 27.70
Code-dodging Excercise #6:
- quickest MX5 = 27.98
- my 350Z = 32.22
- RX8 = 36.37
- S2000 = 36.56
- 180SX = 37.96
The tighter the code-dodging track was, the harder time I had keeping up with the MX5 guys (the quick ones that is). The more open the track, the better the car felt and performed. For instance the excercise #6 was five consecutive 270deg turns ... I could not get anywhere close the fast MX5 guys ... in particular without using the handbrake to start turning me around (which the MX5 guys were using, but I'm not that proficient with). On the other hand the excercises 3 and 5 were more 'open' and had other corners also, so I (and the Zed) could do better there.
The Excercise #7 was a big figure 8 (with an extra 'loop' ie. like 000) and that was was very rought on the tyres and was not very smooth. Doing the big slalom through there averaged around 60 - 70kph. Here the Zed was really good, noone (and no car) could come close to it:
- my 350Z = 30.26
- RX8 = 31.52
- S2000 = 31.70
- quickest MX5 = 31.80
- 180SX = 33.31
The Zed did incredibly well here ... it was just so solid and well planted, it felt like nothing could upset it. And when the back did step out, it was a breeze to correct and control without loosing any time. On the other hand, it was still possible to push the nose-wide with trying to carry too much speed. Solution was to back of lightly, wait for the front to come back on line, and give it more power again. That (depending on area/surface) resulted in the nose tucking in and keeping it on the limit, or the back slightly stepping out (which was welcome as it helpend me get the car around the bend).
The last excercise (Excercise #8), was on the 'handling loop' at the back. They had one 'discipline' where you had to make a lap as close to 60kph as possible (ie. slow) ... I could not do that ... I was good 20secs off even when sticking to the 'speed limits'. Though in the afternoon, they let us out there again when it was not being timed, and with a supervision of instructors. I managed to do good 10 laps there and they were all pretty fast laps (ie. as fast as I felt comfortable). The car felt very good here. Again, incredibly solid and well planted. The dips and andulations had a hard time upsetting it. It took a very good set through the corners and made it feel pretty eazy. Front was pushing a little bit too early for my liking, but nothing major here. Hard to say what speeds I was reaching on the straight as I was not threshold braking for the 1st corner (due to the posted speedlimits). Though, I did see high 150s on the speedo ;-)
Overall I can't recommend this even enough, and also the Zed stood up well to the task and perfromed well ... actually suprisingly well on the skidpan. I still wish for a bit more front-end grip as that would make the car more balanced for me, but generally speaking people were amazed as the speeds that it could carry around some of the curves. I was not dissapointed and had a lot of fun ... once I get a bit more grip at the front, there'll be very few things able to keep up with it (even at cone-dodging). And the back was just so controllable.
Though, I did get to find out how the VDC is still active even when switched off. Despite it being switched off, it would try (and often succeed) in straightening the car as it got sideways under heavy braking. I was actually trying to brake as hard as possible (around a bend/cone), and I did want the back to come around so that I can get on power and spin in around the cone. Though, I could only do it if I did not get the car sideways under braking .... the moment I did, the VDC would straighten the car for me and point me away from the cone (hardly what I wanted). Still, I don't think this will ever happen on the track as you don't swing the back out with brakes there ... it's main limitation is while cone-dodging. Also because the VDC promotes the car going straight, instead of swerve (even though sideways), I can see it this prossibly causing a crash when a car/bike/dog/etc pulls out right in front of you, and you hit the brakes hard and want to avoid it. The VDC will make you go straight for what you're trying to avoid if you get the car sideways under brakes.
ps. I got a fair few rides in the RX8, S2000s and even the 180SX. This was the 1st time for me in an RX8, and it does handle very well, even though it might be too soft/comfortable for my liking. It did have excellent balance though (and was very quiet).
02-21-2004, 02:48 AM
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well done David 
I thought the S2000 should dominate all of it and never thought MX5 could do better than S2000 just because it has less power
But you did a great job
I thought the S2000 should dominate all of it and never thought MX5 could do better than S2000 just because it has less power
But you did a great job
02-21-2004, 04:34 PM
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I thought the S2000 should dominate all of it and never thought MX5 could do better than S2000 just because it has less power
hehe, that's only because I was not driving one ;-) I'd say that if I was in the S2000 then I'd probably be quicker than in the 350Z in most (if not all) cone-dodging exercises. I'd say in the S2000 I should be able to beat even the MX5s (ie. R-spec tyred and track prepped) that managed to be ahead of me while in the Zed. Still, the fact that I was this close to them (and sometimes quicker) in a car that weights 1400kg+ and is at least 1m longer (and who knows hw much wider), that speaks volumes to me. Afterall, this is somewhere where lightness, smallness and nimbleness excell.
On the other hand about the Figure 8s (Excercise #7) I don't think that I would have beat it the Zed in the S2000. So much security and speed in the Zed when the road is a bit rough.
But you did a great job
Thanks. Next time I go to something like that I should have the car sorted to my likeing and them MX5s better watch out ;-)
hehe, that's only because I was not driving one ;-) I'd say that if I was in the S2000 then I'd probably be quicker than in the 350Z in most (if not all) cone-dodging exercises. I'd say in the S2000 I should be able to beat even the MX5s (ie. R-spec tyred and track prepped) that managed to be ahead of me while in the Zed. Still, the fact that I was this close to them (and sometimes quicker) in a car that weights 1400kg+ and is at least 1m longer (and who knows hw much wider), that speaks volumes to me. Afterall, this is somewhere where lightness, smallness and nimbleness excell.
On the other hand about the Figure 8s (Excercise #7) I don't think that I would have beat it the Zed in the S2000. So much security and speed in the Zed when the road is a bit rough.
But you did a great job
Thanks. Next time I go to something like that I should have the car sorted to my likeing and them MX5s better watch out ;-)
02-21-2004, 06:53 PM
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Bummer that I had to work!!! Hangin' to get out again. (without risking license). Well done. Hope to make it to the next one and maybe learn a bit more about this sort of driving.
02-22-2004, 04:12 AM
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Bummer that I had to work!!!
Yeah, was a shame not to have you there as I'd like to see how you would have stacked up against the S2000s (and the RX8) there. I had an unfair advantage of DECA as well as track experience and hence the relatively large time difference in my favour.
Hope to make it to the next one and maybe learn a bit more about this sort of driving.
Sounds good and this is a great place to 'learn' and experience the car at the limit with zero risk involved. I think they might be having another one towards the end of the year so I'll keep an eye out.
Yeah, was a shame not to have you there as I'd like to see how you would have stacked up against the S2000s (and the RX8) there. I had an unfair advantage of DECA as well as track experience and hence the relatively large time difference in my favour.
Hope to make it to the next one and maybe learn a bit more about this sort of driving.
Sounds good and this is a great place to 'learn' and experience the car at the limit with zero risk involved. I think they might be having another one towards the end of the year so I'll keep an eye out.
02-23-2004, 12:24 PM
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David, thought you might like to download a copy of the reults to keep for future reference.
http://www.mx5vic.org.au/pages/_mspo...sults_21.2.pdf
http://www.mx5vic.org.au/pages/_mspo...sults_21.2.pdf
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02-23-2004, 09:01 PM
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Because of the "terrible" visibility in the Z, I'm buggered if I can do a pattern without clipping markers. Also, I can't get my lines right for the same reason - I'ts definitely not a tight course machine (for me anyway). Biggest problem is the side mirrors - and for road driving they are farkin' dangerous - they fall right in the "car on the right" visibility zone.
Maybe I'm just a shortarse or sumpin?
DAVIDM must be 2m tall! to do as well as he has against all the minicars.
Bloody good show, anyway.
FROZTY
Maybe I'm just a shortarse or sumpin?
DAVIDM must be 2m tall! to do as well as he has against all the minicars.
Bloody good show, anyway.
FROZTY
02-23-2004, 10:24 PM
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DAVIDM must be 2m tall! to do as well as he has against all the minicars.
DavidM is a frikin' Giant!!! He's like 10 feet tall 200 kgs!! That's why he goes so fast. He actually puts the car on his shoulder and runs around the course. Then dares anyone to beat his time.
Very scary dude....
DavidM is a frikin' Giant!!! He's like 10 feet tall 200 kgs!! That's why he goes so fast. He actually puts the car on his shoulder and runs around the course. Then dares anyone to beat his time.
Very scary dude....
02-24-2004, 12:07 PM
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Hey SHIZZLE, you know we have power mirrors? You can adjust them. XXX
You're not a dwarf, sorry I mean little person, so you shouldnt have any hassles with the mirrors.
Perhaps you're just used to driving those those things that sound like lawn mowers?
Anyway, David it sounds like you had a ball (or two) and kicked some butt. I fondly remember going to race tracks on my bikes and I cant wait to do it in the car, just can't seem to find the time.
As always
H
You're not a dwarf, sorry I mean little person, so you shouldnt have any hassles with the mirrors.
Perhaps you're just used to driving those those things that sound like lawn mowers?
Anyway, David it sounds like you had a ball (or two) and kicked some butt. I fondly remember going to race tracks on my bikes and I cant wait to do it in the car, just can't seem to find the time.
As always
H
03-01-2004, 05:24 AM
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David, thought you might like to download a copy of the reults to keep for future reference.
Thanks for that ... I just got back from Whitsundays so I'll follow it up ASAP. I wonder if they listed all the times from the day or just the 1st runs (which were to count towards their championship)?
edit: It's as I suspected - just the 1st 'official' runs that are published ... I'm glad I was writing the timed down that they called out. Though, I have to laugh about the last 'official timed' exercise .... I got the quickest time by far (even though it was no the goal) .... going 'slow' is not in my blood ;-)
DavidM is a frikin' Giant!!! He's like 10 feet tall 200 kgs!!
lol, I like this internet thing ... I can fuel rumours like this ;-)
Still, I have no problems with knowing the extremities of the car .... you usually go by feel, and not by mirrors. One of the cone-dodging 'exercises' involved reversing thought a whitsheshats gate and thatwas tough in the Zed as you could not see them. Though again, I managed a decent time there by not looking in the mirrors, but by going by feel.
Thanks for that ... I just got back from Whitsundays so I'll follow it up ASAP. I wonder if they listed all the times from the day or just the 1st runs (which were to count towards their championship)?
edit: It's as I suspected - just the 1st 'official' runs that are published ... I'm glad I was writing the timed down that they called out. Though, I have to laugh about the last 'official timed' exercise .... I got the quickest time by far (even though it was no the goal) .... going 'slow' is not in my blood ;-)
DavidM is a frikin' Giant!!! He's like 10 feet tall 200 kgs!!
lol, I like this internet thing ... I can fuel rumours like this ;-)
Still, I have no problems with knowing the extremities of the car .... you usually go by feel, and not by mirrors. One of the cone-dodging 'exercises' involved reversing thought a whitsheshats gate and thatwas tough in the Zed as you could not see them. Though again, I managed a decent time there by not looking in the mirrors, but by going by feel.
03-08-2004, 08:22 PM
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I have footage (ie. video) of me doing the 'excercise#2' at DECA. It's pretty cool to see how the Zed handled it (from the outside), as well what cone-dodging is all about.
If anyone is interested in seeing it, then PM with an e-mail address and I'll send it to you. It's only 800kb big, but this site allows only 200kb attachements (or smaller).
If anyone is interested in seeing it, then PM with an e-mail address and I'll send it to you. It's only 800kb big, but this site allows only 200kb attachements (or smaller).
03-10-2004, 04:07 AM
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Viewed it on media player.
Great driving DavidM - looked like loads of fun.
The file has some background noise, but it sounds like you did it all in 1st gear and possibly clutched in on a few sections before rev matching again. Is this correct or did the revs drop so much on the slow parts, that it sounds like you were depressing the clutch?
Great driving - I watched it at least 10 times and especially liked the purposeful oversteer slide around the last cone, very well controlled with little loss of momentum.
Great driving DavidM - looked like loads of fun.
The file has some background noise, but it sounds like you did it all in 1st gear and possibly clutched in on a few sections before rev matching again. Is this correct or did the revs drop so much on the slow parts, that it sounds like you were depressing the clutch?
Great driving - I watched it at least 10 times and especially liked the purposeful oversteer slide around the last cone, very well controlled with little loss of momentum.