They're not too happy are they.

I've got to pick up a copy next time I go to the shops but from what I've seen I am a bit surprised at some of the placings:

1. Lamborghini Gallardo
2. BMW M3 CSL
3. Audi RS6 Avant
4. Nissan 350Z Track
5. HSV Clubsport R8
6. BMW Z4 3.0i
7. Audi S4
8. Mazda RX-8
9. FPV Falcon GT
10. Subaru Libery GT
11. Holden Astra SRi Turbo
12. Jaguar XJR
13. Volvo S60 R
14. Porsche Cayenne Turbo
15. Bentley Continental GT
16. Holden Commodore SS
17. Alfa Romero 147 GTA
18. Chrysler Crossfire
19. CSV Mondo GT 370R

Now as this is the Performance COTY things like comfort and price shouldn't come in to it at all IMO. It should be based purely on performance. That said I'm a little surprised to see the Zed so high on the list. I'm also a bit surprised at the Astras placing.

I'll save further comments until I've read the article.

 

I wonder if there is some way to 100% disable the VDC on the Zed? I wonder if there is some 'hidded' sequence that will do that (or simply just hold the button down for X number of seconds). I wonder where one would find out something like that (that is if there is such thing).

On a different note, I'm surprised that the RX8 crowd is so upset. Afterall, it is a 'compromised' pefromance car (ie. by 4 door-sedan design). It did really well considering all the compromizes that the car makes ie. it is not an all out 'performance' car and is relatively soft, quiet and comfortable. I'm am actually impressed by it's placing (as well as all it's perfromance numbers).

 

If its got 4 doors then it wasn't designed with performance as its main priority, seating and access to seats was chosen in favour of performance for that particular design decision. And how many other decisions would be compromised without performance as the main priority?

Performance for me is all aspects of performance, power, handling, weight distribution, braking etc, not comfort, quietness, seating and lots of doors etc.

P.S. I love my Zed.

P.S.S.

Aps, Im also surprised the Zed went so well, because normally ride and comfort come into PCOTY, and I know some magazines dont like our firm ride etc. Maybe they have changed the weighting for some of the sections? Let us know if you get the mag.

 

Performance for me is all aspects of performance, power, handling, weight distribution, braking etc, not comfort, quietness, seating and lots of doors etc.

Likewise. That is how I look at it and everything else is 2nd-dary to me.

Im also surprised the Zed went so well, because normally ride and comfort come into PCOTY, and I know some magazines dont like our firm ride etc.

I actually think that the Zed is reasonably 'soft' (ie. not as firm as I would expect). So it's all relative and depends what you're comapriong it to ... I'm using the S2000 and Elise as reference for 'firmness' that is hard but still (to me) accptable on the road. Compared to those the Zed rides like a luxury car (not that it has much/any more roll/swat/dive). Also I notice that a lot of you guys think that the Zed rides badly over bumps. Maybe it does comapred to what you are using as a 'reference'. For me the Zed handles the bumps better than most cars I am used to (ie. S2000, Elise and Boxster).

So it's all relative and depends on what one find acceptable as well as what one is used to.

ps. They have a scored section called 'drivability' which is how the car is to drive on regual roads (ie. not track) in normal conditons (ie. not just 10/10th driving). That's where stuff like 'ride' comes into it, but they were pretty happy with the car in this section.

 

This is my thinking as well.

IMO sections like this shouldn't have been included at all. How does a liesurely drive along a road relate to testing a car's performance? As you've pointed out noise and ride are too subjective. What one person finds unacceptable may be fine according to another. A test such as PCOTY should stick to the measureable facts.

 

I wonder if there is some way to 100% disable the VDC on the Zed? I wonder if there is some 'hidded' sequence that will do that (or simply just hold the button down for X number of seconds). I wonder where one would find out something like that (that is if there is such thing).

Well, I was experimenting with this and I found one 'hidden' function for the TC/VDC. If you hold it for about 10 - 12secs then you dissable the button totally ie. TC/VDC on and no way to switch it off. The only way you can return back the functionality of the TC/VDC button is by swithing the engine off and back on.

I would love to find something like this on the Zed that would 100% dissable the VDC. Pain is that how would you know in the Zed that you've done it unless it has some special light/blink sequence?

IMO sections like this shouldn't have been included at all.

I agree that some 'subjective' ratings have no place i PCOTY (ie. how well it absorbs the bumps and how quiet it is). Though, I think that there is some room for subjectivity ie:
- how good is the gearbox?
- how well are the pedals placed?
- how good is the steering feel/feedback?
- how good is the driving position and how well does the seat hold you?
- how well does the car 'fit' the driver (ie. you 'wear' sportscars and you 'get in' regular cars)?
- how 'sporty' is the engine (ie. how does it feel in the upper rev range)?
- how good does the car sound?
- how well does the car talk to the driver via the chasis?
- how good does it feel on (and beyond) the limit?
- how well does it communicate that you are approaching the limit?
- how much feel do the brakes have?
- etc.

All of the above are subjective categories and I see them all a very important aspect of a 'performance' car. Afterall, without those, cars like an MX5 would be beaten by regular Falcons and Commodores ... and I don't think that would be fair as the MX5 is a top notch 'performance' car. It excels in all the 'subjective' categories that I listed above but does not do that well in the objective, number crunching ones (which is the opposite of a regular Commodore).

A test such as PCOTY should stick to the measureable facts.

You asked, and you have have. All that the following is based on are the performance numbers from the '04 PCOTY. The final 'preformance' value is a combination of laptime, acceleration numbers and top-speed. I used a formula where:

performance = lap time + measure data (each of equal weight)

where:
- measured data = acceleration + top speed (each of equal weight)

where:
- acceleration = 100kph + 400m + 1000m (each of equal weight)
- top speed = the speed at the end of 1000m as some of the cars are speed-limited.

The results of that are as follows:
1 = Lamborghini Gallardo 59.60
2 = BMW M3 CSL 58.05
3 = Audi RS6 Avant 45.21
4 = CVS Mondo GT370R 42.05
5 = HSV Clubsport R8 '04 36.28
6 = Bentley Continental GT 34.79
7 = Nissan 350Z Track 32.51
8 = Audi S4 '04 31.86
9 = Jaguar XJR 29.50
10 = FPV Falcon GT 27.66
11 = Mazda RX8 27.13
12 = Holden Commodore SS '04 25.46
13 = Porsche Cayenne Turbo 24.89
14 = BMW Z4 3.0 23.32
15 = Chrisler Crossfire 23.12
16 = Volvo S60 R 21.92
17 = Alfa Romeo 147GTA 21.05
18 = Subaru Liberty GT 16.49
19 = Holden Astra Sri Turbo 13.48

Oddly enough, it does not look that different at the pointy end comapred to what Motor came up with. The CSV Mondo would rate really high if all 'subjectivity' is removed. The Z4 on the other hand would have done poorly and would be beaten by the Cayenne S. Also the Astra would come last, and I'm sure there are worse 'performance' cars in that list.

 

4 doors? Are you forgetting the RS6? IT's A Bloody WAGON and it Placed 2nd

I think the only way to disable the VDC 100% is by adding a switch that can Switch on or off the VDC 100%

 

4 doors? Are you forgetting the RS6? IT's A Bloody WAGON and it Placed 2nd

I'm not sure what you are refereing to? But I (think) agree with you, '4 door wagon' does not make a good 'performance' car no matter how quick it is. MX5 will always have some elements of 'performance' that that the RS6 cannot come close to matching.

 

I think the only way to disable the VDC 100% is by adding a switch that can Switch on or off the VDC 100%

I forgot to ask, but do you know what is involved and how to do this (or anyone who does)?

 

well i just refering to mcchapman quote saying the 4 doors wasn't design for performance

But what about the Audi RS6? It's a 4 doors and wagon too. It just the Engine bay is packed with the Muscle (v8 Twin Turbo) and also it's 4wd too. From this the car place in 3rd, sorry not 2nd place
I think they wanted the balance for the car. For RX8 they think it's not balance enough. It has a good handling and ride, but not enough power on the engine or punch on the mid-range.

 

The RS6 is a 330kw twin turbo V8 sedan, its the sports version of the A6, which only has the NA V8 pumping out 220kw.

http://www.audi.com.au/content/Rollover.aspx?s=572

But you can also get a station wagon version, the RS6 Avant. I dont know which one they tested in the PCOTY. Anyone checked this in the magazine?

 

But you can also get a station wagon version, the RS6 Avant. I dont know which one they tested in the PCOTY. Anyone checked this in the magazine?

It's the RS6 Avant.

I think they wanted the balance for the car. For RX8 they think it's not balance enough. It has a good handling and ride, but not enough power on the engine or punch on the mid-range.

Yep, that's how Motor look at it. Me prsonally would rather see the RX8 highher and the the RS6 lower. As I mentione before, power and grip alone do not make a good 'performance car (IMHO). They help a lot, but I'd say that there are other priorities that are just as important (in not more) important in making a good 'performance' car.

 

I have puched all the data/numbers from the '04 PCOTY into a spreadsheet and applied the same formula to all the cars. I can go into details about what that formula is if someone asks, but for the moment I'll keep it simple:

PCOTY = PERFORMANCE + VOTES + VALUE

Each one of these 3 categories carries equal weighting in the final PCOTY score, and the VOTES are only taken for the 'handling' and 'drivebility' categories. VALUE is calculated directly from the actual price.

Anyway, I came up with this formula because it gives me the same winners as Motor picked for the last 3 PCOTYs. VALUE needs to play sunch big part in order to have the 200SX beat 911TT in '01. So sticking to the same formula and punching in the '04 data gives us this order/results:

1 = HSV Clubsport R8 '04 116.19
2 = BMW M3 CSL 114.43
3 = Nissan 350Z Track 110.32
4 = Audi RS6 Avant 105.85
5 = BMW Z4 3.0 104.93
6 = Mazda RX8 100.75
7 = FPV Falcon GT 96.21
8 = Audi S4 '04 95.98
9 = Subaru Liberty GT 86.68
10 = Holden Commodore SS '04 78.50
11 = Holden Astra Sri Turbo 78.19
12 = Chrysler Crossfire 76.41
13 = Lamborghini Gallardo 75.90
14 = Alfa Romeo 147GTA 73.16
15 = Volvo S60 R 72.59
16 = CVS Mondo GT370R 52.96
17 = Jaguar XJR 45.88
18 = Porsche Cayenne Turbo 43.55
19 = Bentley Continental GT 12.84

Interesting? Not much like the Motor's final order. This really just shows that the Motor is inconsistent from year to year and that their 'subjective formula' is not good for consistancy. It's the mainly the Gallardo that will not 'fit' using same formula. Gallardo barely delivered superior numbers to the M3 CSL, but costs 2x as much, and the judges liked the CSL only slighlty less than the Gallardo (according to their subjective votes/scores). So how can it win in the same context that the 200SX beat the 911TT? Besides that the order is not far off, except I have here the HSV R8 as the winner (by the smallest margin due to it's cost).

Though, if I half the VALUE component of my equation, then I get this order:
1 = BMW M3 CSL 134.52
2 = Audi RS6 Avant 127.75
3 = HSV Clubsport R8 '04 119.52
4 = Lamborghini Gallardo 118.53
5 = Nissan 350Z Track 113.27
6 = BMW Z4 3.0 110.98
7 = Audi S4 '04 106.49
8 = Mazda RX8 103.30
9 = FPV Falcon GT 98.44
10 = Subaru Liberty GT 88.09
11 = Chrysler Crossfire 79.84
12 = Holden Commodore SS '04 79.55
13 = Volvo S60 R 79.47
14 = Holden Astra Sri Turbo 77.69
15 = Alfa Romeo 147GTA 75.39
16 = Jaguar XJR 67.04
17 = Porsche Cayenne Turbo 62.86
18 = CVS Mondo GT370R 61.15
19 = Bentley Continental GT 53.17

That is very close to what Motor came up with in '04, but the Gallardo still can't make it to the top. So it looks like Motor decided (conciously or by accident) that the VALUE component of '04 PCOTY plays less than 1/2 it's weighting from over the last 3 years.

Not only that but the Gallardo should have not won when looking at the clocked numbers as well as justdes scores unless the value component playes close to zero part in PCOTY. Though, then the rest of the cars would be in a very different order so it's the Gallardo that is out of step in '04 PCOTY.

ps.
Using 1/2 VALUE in the equation gives us an interesting mix when you throw in the cars from the last 4 PCOTYs:

1 = BMW M3 CSL 134.52
2 = Audi RS6 Avant 127.75
3 = BMW M3 '02 126.34
4 = HSV Clubsport R8 '04 119.52
5 = Lamborghini Gallardo 118.53
6 = Porsche BoxsterS'03 117.53
7 = Nissan 350Z Track 113.27
8 = Porsche 911 Turbo 112.06
9 = BMW Z4 3.0 110.98
10 = Audi S4 '04 106.49
11 = Mazda RX8 103.30
12 = FPV Falcon GT 98.44
13 = Mitsubishi Lancer EVO VI 97.71
14 = Porsche 911Carrera '02 92.84
15 = Mercedes SL55 AMG 91.46
16 = BMW 330Ci 90.87
17 = Mercedes E55 AMG 90.37
18 = Subaru Impreza WRX Sti '02 89.86
19 = Merceses CLK55 AMG 89.31
20 = Nissan 200SX 89.11
21 = Mazda MX5 SP 88.51
22 = Subaru Liberty GT 88.09
23 = Audi RS4 86.89
24 = Chrisler Viper RT/10 85.70
25 = Lotus Elise 111S 85.00
26 = Subaru Impreza WRX Sti'03 84.30
27 = HSV GTS'03 84.23
28 = Chrysler Crossfire 79.84
29 = Holden Commodore SS '04 79.55
30 = Volvo S60 R 79.47
31 = Ford Falcon XR6 Turbo 79.05
32 = Holden Astra Sri Turbo 77.69
33 = Porsche 911 GT2 77.23
34 = Alfa Romeo 147GTA 75.39
35 = HSV GTS 75.12
36 = CSV Veloce 330 '02 74.64
37 = Audi S3 74.51
38 = Lotus Elise '02 73.45
39 = Renault Clio Sport 72.26
40 = Holden Monaro CV8'03 72.16
41 = Mazda6 Luxuy Sports 71.42
42 = Ford Falcon TE50 '02 70.96
43 = HSV GTS Coupe 70.64
44 = CSV Veloce 330 69.83
45 = Ford Falcon XR8 '02 67.32
46 = Subaru Impreza WRX 67.18
47 = Jaguar XJR 67.04
48 = Mercedes C32 AMG 65.11
49 = Porsche Cayenne Turbo 62.86
50 = Holden Commodore SV8 61.85
51 = HSV Mallo R8 61.22
52 = CVS Mondo GT370R 61.15
53 = Honda S2000 59.52
54 = Ford Falcon TE50 58.10
55 = HSV Clubsport R8'02 56.93
56 = BMW Z3 3.0 Auto 56.86
57 = Jaguar S-Type R 56.50
58 = Jaguar X-Type Sport 3.0 56.28
59 = Alfa Romeo 156 GTA 56.12
60 = Mazda MX5 55.14
61 = Merceses SLK230 55.03
62 = Mini Cooper S 54.89
63 = Mitsubishi Raliant Magna 54.82
64 = Holden Commodore SS'01 54.20
65 = Bentley Continental GT 53.17
66 = Honda Integra Type-R '02 50.06
67 = Mitsubishi Magna VR-X 49.59
68 = Audi S6 49.01
69 = Holden Monaro CV8 48.70
70 = Toyota MR2 Spyder 48.25
71 = Toyota Camry Sportivo 45.85
72 = Volvo S60 44.62
73 = Ford Fairmont Ghia (v8) 38.74
74 = Holden Commodore SS '02 37.84
75 = Holden Barina Sri 32.74
76 = BMW X5 4.6is 18.36
77 = Jaguar XKR 18.22
78 = Ford Falcon XR8 16.78
79 = Alfa Romeo 147 15.07
80 = BMW X5 8.39
81 = MGF Trophy 160 -5.97

Probably a reasonably accurate order ... but the 200SX is not as high as Motor had it in '01.

 

Wow David - you went to a lot of statistical effort to explain to us that Motor staffers chose the PCOTY based on which car leave the biggest smile on the dial - Gallardo on 04.
As you suggested, I don't think that Motor are very scientific when sellecting the PCOTY, because as you proved, the formula changes each year.
Still, it sells mags!

 

you went to a lot of statistical effort to explain to us that Motor staffers chose the PCOTY based on which car leave the biggest smile on the dial

I've had the spreadsheet since about '02 and I just refine it and punch the latest data in there ... so not as much effort as one would thing (that is just to keep it up to date). But you're right, I just proved that they chose the car that 'puts the biggest smile on their face'.

Still, it sells mags!

Yep, and it's my favourite read of the year (next to the BFYB).

 

BFYB ?

FRIZZLEZ

 

Bang For Your Buck

 

learn something every day! nice number crunching mate!

 

DavidM - You are are a stat FREAK!!!