Whiteline springs fitted...
08-18-2004, 05:09 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 795
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whiteline springs fitted...
I'm taking this out from another thread, which ws not about the springs and starting a new thread so that the info is easier to find.
How do the new springs feel on the road David?
So I've had the Whiteline springs in since Friday, and had the car on OME tyres since Sunday ... not only that, but last 4 days have been nice and dry here. So here are my observation of the springs so far:
1) The car is noticably lower. You can't fit 2 fingers (straight) between the tyre and wheel arch at the front. Also when I was swapping the wheels to the OME ones then I could no longer fit my hydraulic jack under the car. It used to fit comfortably before the springs, but now the car is about 2mm (or so) too low for it to fit. So I had to drive on blocks of wood with the front wheels to get enough clearance. These springs seem to give a 'true' 2cm drop. I was not expecting that, as most other seem to leave the car more clearance.
2) The car feels stiffer. As far as the ride comfort goes, the road imperfections/bumps are a lot more noticable now. That does not bother me as on the positive side the car has even less roll and dive ... which was already pretty good with the OME springs.
3) I have now more camber at the front - which was the main purpose behind me getting the springs. It's visually noticable, but how much camber I really have I'm not 100% sure yet even though the car was alligned when the springs were fitted. I'm getting the car re-alligned at my usual (trusted) place over the next few weeks, and that will give me the exact figures.
4) Even though I had the springs at Sandown last weekend, I could not test them properly, nor give any reasonable feedback as the track was so wet and cold that my car felt like it was on ice. I would spin the rear wheels coming out of corners at 60kph in 3rd gear. Though, now with my OME tyres on, and dry weather, I took the car to my usual 'testing spot' and gave the car a bit of a workout. There was not much grip out there as the roads are really cold and I can spin the rear wheels from roll in 1st gear at 30kph. Still, despite that I threw it around a couple larger round-abouts where the car would normally understeer on the left-to-right change of direction. I went at speed where I would expect this to happen and there was no understeer. If anything the back stepped out a fraction under power as I came out of the round-about. Though, I'd put that down to the lack of grip out there at the moment, and not the springs. Still, the front-end gripped. Also I took it through a couple longish 60 - 80kph corners and here I felt a little bit of understeer when I entered the corner with a bit too much speed. It felt like there was less understeer than with the OME springs, but there was still some undertseer. I don't want it to overtseer on corner entry, so that's not necesarily a bad thing ... still, should be even better with 245 tyres all around.
I'm (hopefully) taking the car to Sandown again in about 6 weeks and I'll have my R-spec 245s all around. So hopefully the weather will work out and then I'll get true impression of the car at the limit.
How do the new springs feel on the road David?
So I've had the Whiteline springs in since Friday, and had the car on OME tyres since Sunday ... not only that, but last 4 days have been nice and dry here. So here are my observation of the springs so far:
1) The car is noticably lower. You can't fit 2 fingers (straight) between the tyre and wheel arch at the front. Also when I was swapping the wheels to the OME ones then I could no longer fit my hydraulic jack under the car. It used to fit comfortably before the springs, but now the car is about 2mm (or so) too low for it to fit. So I had to drive on blocks of wood with the front wheels to get enough clearance. These springs seem to give a 'true' 2cm drop. I was not expecting that, as most other seem to leave the car more clearance.
2) The car feels stiffer. As far as the ride comfort goes, the road imperfections/bumps are a lot more noticable now. That does not bother me as on the positive side the car has even less roll and dive ... which was already pretty good with the OME springs.
3) I have now more camber at the front - which was the main purpose behind me getting the springs. It's visually noticable, but how much camber I really have I'm not 100% sure yet even though the car was alligned when the springs were fitted. I'm getting the car re-alligned at my usual (trusted) place over the next few weeks, and that will give me the exact figures.
4) Even though I had the springs at Sandown last weekend, I could not test them properly, nor give any reasonable feedback as the track was so wet and cold that my car felt like it was on ice. I would spin the rear wheels coming out of corners at 60kph in 3rd gear. Though, now with my OME tyres on, and dry weather, I took the car to my usual 'testing spot' and gave the car a bit of a workout. There was not much grip out there as the roads are really cold and I can spin the rear wheels from roll in 1st gear at 30kph. Still, despite that I threw it around a couple larger round-abouts where the car would normally understeer on the left-to-right change of direction. I went at speed where I would expect this to happen and there was no understeer. If anything the back stepped out a fraction under power as I came out of the round-about. Though, I'd put that down to the lack of grip out there at the moment, and not the springs. Still, the front-end gripped. Also I took it through a couple longish 60 - 80kph corners and here I felt a little bit of understeer when I entered the corner with a bit too much speed. It felt like there was less understeer than with the OME springs, but there was still some undertseer. I don't want it to overtseer on corner entry, so that's not necesarily a bad thing ... still, should be even better with 245 tyres all around.
I'm (hopefully) taking the car to Sandown again in about 6 weeks and I'll have my R-spec 245s all around. So hopefully the weather will work out and then I'll get true impression of the car at the limit.
08-18-2004, 06:51 AM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
im doing a bit of research atm, getting familiar with the current engine/suspension mods available
David ne reason y u didnt just go for the Eibach springs. I have Eibachs on my car, and would have thought such a large well known company would have been the default choice, they seem pretty cheap too, especially compared to the Jap brands
Ne plans on changing the shocks now? I know my original shocks on the Alfa lasted around 30,000kays before the extra stress killed them, so i fitted Koni adjustables
Can u fit Konis or Bilsteins on a Z? Would b alot cheaper than the HKS and Tein kits id imagine
David ne reason y u didnt just go for the Eibach springs. I have Eibachs on my car, and would have thought such a large well known company would have been the default choice, they seem pretty cheap too, especially compared to the Jap brands
Ne plans on changing the shocks now? I know my original shocks on the Alfa lasted around 30,000kays before the extra stress killed them, so i fitted Koni adjustables
Can u fit Konis or Bilsteins on a Z? Would b alot cheaper than the HKS and Tein kits id imagine
08-18-2004, 04:59 PM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 795
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
David ne reason y u didnt just go for the Eibach springs. I have Eibachs on my car, and would have thought such a large well known company would have been the default choice, they seem pretty cheap too, especially compared to the Jap brands
Answer is pretty simple - I only changed the springs to get more camber at the front, no other reason as I was pretty happy with the OME springs. I wanted more camber as I want more grip from the front, which seemed to be the limiting factor on the track even with 245s all around.
Another reason is that the Whileline springs cost $320 + fitting. You can't beat that for price.
Lats of all, Whiteline are local, so one would pressume that they 'design' their parts for local conditions/roads/tracks. Will see if I'm happy with the car (and front end-grip) when I go to the track again in 6 weeks.
Ne plans on changing the shocks now?
Nope, I have no reason to do so. I'm one of thos people who changes only the things only that he has to. The 'has to' is hard to define as I 'had to' replace the exhaust to get a better top-end power (I could not live with the OME power delivery). I 'had to' replace the springs because I need more front end grip in order to be happy with the car balance.
If I still don't have enough front-end grip with the 245s all around and more camber, then my next point of call will be a rear-swaybar. Though, as I said before - I will only fit it if what I have right now is still not to my satisfaction.
I know my original shocks on the Alfa lasted around 30,000kays before the extra stress killed them, so i fitted Koni adjustables
That's not long at all ... they should usually last around 100,000km. My S2000 had close to 40,000km when I swapped it for the Zed and the OME shocks were still as good as new ... and that car saw good 12 - 15 track days.
How did you 'kill' your shocks?
Can u fit Konis or Bilsteins on a Z?
Yes, you can.
Answer is pretty simple - I only changed the springs to get more camber at the front, no other reason as I was pretty happy with the OME springs. I wanted more camber as I want more grip from the front, which seemed to be the limiting factor on the track even with 245s all around.
Another reason is that the Whileline springs cost $320 + fitting. You can't beat that for price.
Lats of all, Whiteline are local, so one would pressume that they 'design' their parts for local conditions/roads/tracks. Will see if I'm happy with the car (and front end-grip) when I go to the track again in 6 weeks.
Ne plans on changing the shocks now?
Nope, I have no reason to do so. I'm one of thos people who changes only the things only that he has to. The 'has to' is hard to define as I 'had to' replace the exhaust to get a better top-end power (I could not live with the OME power delivery). I 'had to' replace the springs because I need more front end grip in order to be happy with the car balance.
If I still don't have enough front-end grip with the 245s all around and more camber, then my next point of call will be a rear-swaybar. Though, as I said before - I will only fit it if what I have right now is still not to my satisfaction.
I know my original shocks on the Alfa lasted around 30,000kays before the extra stress killed them, so i fitted Koni adjustables
That's not long at all ... they should usually last around 100,000km. My S2000 had close to 40,000km when I swapped it for the Zed and the OME shocks were still as good as new ... and that car saw good 12 - 15 track days.
How did you 'kill' your shocks?
Can u fit Konis or Bilsteins on a Z?
Yes, you can.
08-18-2004, 05:15 PM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually, Nissan has a Bilstein suspension option for the Z (I picked up the Options catalogue a few weeks ago).
Aside from the struts and springs, it comes with a sway bar (not sure if its front or rear).
Aside from the struts and springs, it comes with a sway bar (not sure if its front or rear).
08-18-2004, 07:03 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yeah ur right scathing, i just saw it in the brochure, but u could do it alot cheaper buying the parts o/s and having ur friendly mechanic fit them here
David the Eibachs lowered my car almost 60mm, and with larger rims, that put huge amounts of stress on the stock shocks that werent designed for that ride height. Also front wheelers tend to put more stress on front shocks then rwds. I also replaced all the rubber bushes up front too just in case. Had the Konis for 60,000kays now and they're still working as good as new, pretty impressive given the ride height and firmness theyre set at. Ride improved so much tho, better stability through corners and best of all front turn in was adjustable through the firmness level, too hard and the front would skip over bumps mid corner and ud lose grip, too soft and it was all soft and sloppy on turn in. Id assume adjustable shocks would b the way to go for extra mechanical grip
David the Eibachs lowered my car almost 60mm, and with larger rims, that put huge amounts of stress on the stock shocks that werent designed for that ride height. Also front wheelers tend to put more stress on front shocks then rwds. I also replaced all the rubber bushes up front too just in case. Had the Konis for 60,000kays now and they're still working as good as new, pretty impressive given the ride height and firmness theyre set at. Ride improved so much tho, better stability through corners and best of all front turn in was adjustable through the firmness level, too hard and the front would skip over bumps mid corner and ud lose grip, too soft and it was all soft and sloppy on turn in. Id assume adjustable shocks would b the way to go for extra mechanical grip
Last edited by ZEXC-33; 08-18-2004 at 07:08 PM.
08-19-2004, 04:06 PM
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 795
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
David the Eibachs lowered my car almost 60mm
hehe, 6cm ... that's a huge drop ... could have removed the suspension altogether and saved some weight ;-) How low was the car with that kind of drop?
Also front wheelers tend to put more stress on front shocks then rwds.
Yep, and Alfas are probably one of the worst offenders as the engine is partially in front of the front wheels. That gives it very heavy nose so I'm not surprprised you needed to swap the shocks, in particluar if/when you removed a lot of the 'support' that the springs would give it.
Id assume adjustable shocks would b the way to go for extra mechanical grip
Ultimately, replacing the whole lot for competiton type of suspension will make for a quicker car on the track. All the guys who professionaly race cars replace every single suspension component as their 1st priority before competing on the track. On the track you want (almost) as much stiffness as you can get, and also -5deg (plus) of camber as they run slicks most of the time. Though, unless you don't have slicks on the car, then you need to be a bit more conservative. If you're running road tyres, then even more conservative.
ps. DavidC (aka ZZZ-35) is running the Nismo suspension package on his Zed and that is a beautiful set-up for the road (and I'm sure it will help on the track too).
hehe, 6cm ... that's a huge drop ... could have removed the suspension altogether and saved some weight ;-) How low was the car with that kind of drop?
Also front wheelers tend to put more stress on front shocks then rwds.
Yep, and Alfas are probably one of the worst offenders as the engine is partially in front of the front wheels. That gives it very heavy nose so I'm not surprprised you needed to swap the shocks, in particluar if/when you removed a lot of the 'support' that the springs would give it.
Id assume adjustable shocks would b the way to go for extra mechanical grip
Ultimately, replacing the whole lot for competiton type of suspension will make for a quicker car on the track. All the guys who professionaly race cars replace every single suspension component as their 1st priority before competing on the track. On the track you want (almost) as much stiffness as you can get, and also -5deg (plus) of camber as they run slicks most of the time. Though, unless you don't have slicks on the car, then you need to be a bit more conservative. If you're running road tyres, then even more conservative.
ps. DavidC (aka ZZZ-35) is running the Nismo suspension package on his Zed and that is a beautiful set-up for the road (and I'm sure it will help on the track too).
Trending Topics
08-20-2004, 10:03 AM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by DavidM
David the Eibachs lowered my car almost 60mm
hehe, 6cm ... that's a huge drop ... could have removed the suspension altogether and saved some weight ;-) How low was the car with that kind of drop?
David the Eibachs lowered my car almost 60mm
hehe, 6cm ... that's a huge drop ... could have removed the suspension altogether and saved some weight ;-) How low was the car with that kind of drop?
the lowest point is behind the front wheel arch, theres only about 80mm of clearance
The front lip is angled upwards making driveways just manageable
08-20-2004, 04:59 PM
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 795
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
this is how my Alfa looks with around a 60mm drop.....they say 50-55mm but theyve dropped a bit more over time
That does not look too bad ... it still looks liee the tyres are not hidden in the wheel-arch, which (IMHO) is not the best look. Must have had a huge gap between the tyre and the fender when you got it.
ps. I like the Alfa approach to 4-door coupe - the rear door has the door handle hidden ... not unlike RX8, but more practical.
That does not look too bad ... it still looks liee the tyres are not hidden in the wheel-arch, which (IMHO) is not the best look. Must have had a huge gap between the tyre and the fender when you got it.
ps. I like the Alfa approach to 4-door coupe - the rear door has the door handle hidden ... not unlike RX8, but more practical.
08-20-2004, 07:37 PM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yeah David i dont like the tucked under the guards look either, they should imo just sit on the edge of the guards.
it was pretty high from factory on the stock 16s. Now Alfa dealers r fitting the not so low Prokit eibachs on all 156s
imo the rear doors on the RX8 r pure ****. The marketing department probably came up with the idea so that they could advertise some sort of selling point. US crewcabs have had rear swinging doors for decades now
it was pretty high from factory on the stock 16s. Now Alfa dealers r fitting the not so low Prokit eibachs on all 156s
imo the rear doors on the RX8 r pure ****. The marketing department probably came up with the idea so that they could advertise some sort of selling point. US crewcabs have had rear swinging doors for decades now
09-01-2004, 04:36 AM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 795
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had my car re-aligned today now that I have the Whiteline springs. I took the car to the same place where I've been getting alignment for the last 2+ years and now the settings are more or less what I was after as I have extra -1deg of camber at the front. The settings are:
Front camber = -1.4deg
Front toe-in = +2.0mm (total)
Front caster = +8.2deg
Rear camber = 2.1deg
Rear toe-in = +3.8mm (total)
We'll see how much it helps in couple weeks when I'm at Sandown.
Front camber = -1.4deg
Front toe-in = +2.0mm (total)
Front caster = +8.2deg
Rear camber = 2.1deg
Rear toe-in = +3.8mm (total)
We'll see how much it helps in couple weeks when I'm at Sandown.
09-01-2004, 09:19 PM
#13
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 795
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why do you have so much toe in on the rear ?
Mainly for 'cosistancy' at the moment. I have had these settings before the Whiteline springs, but with only -0.4deg of camber at the front. So to trully test out the effect of the extra front camber, I did not want to change anything else at the moment.
I'm still trying to find out the 'optimum' alignemnt for me and my car, so I would not say that I've settled on the rear-toe yet. Though, my car felt good (except for not enough front end-grip) last time I had it at Winton. What are you guys running (in terms of toe on the 350Z? What would you recommend?
On my S2000 I was running 6 - 8mm (total) of toe-In at the rear to keep the back a bit more tied down. With the 350Z I don't have any problems with needing to keep the back-tied down (yet), so I'm guessing that I could drop it down to 2mm of toe-in at the rear and it may imporve the turn in.
Mainly for 'cosistancy' at the moment. I have had these settings before the Whiteline springs, but with only -0.4deg of camber at the front. So to trully test out the effect of the extra front camber, I did not want to change anything else at the moment.
I'm still trying to find out the 'optimum' alignemnt for me and my car, so I would not say that I've settled on the rear-toe yet. Though, my car felt good (except for not enough front end-grip) last time I had it at Winton. What are you guys running (in terms of toe on the 350Z? What would you recommend?
On my S2000 I was running 6 - 8mm (total) of toe-In at the rear to keep the back a bit more tied down. With the 350Z I don't have any problems with needing to keep the back-tied down (yet), so I'm guessing that I could drop it down to 2mm of toe-in at the rear and it may imporve the turn in.
09-02-2004, 02:47 PM
#14
Any amount of toe in or out is scrubing the tyres. the more you have the more scrub you get.
The ideal is no scrub, but as you have identified with your S2000
rear toe has tightened up the rear of that particular car.
A bigger than normal amount of toe out on the front does wonders for initial turn in for some cars.
Our Zed has never had a rear end problem (maybe Nathans not going fast enough) so we run the rear with no toe.
That 4mm of toe would cost a few Kph at the end of a straight so why have it if it,s not needed
The ideal is no scrub, but as you have identified with your S2000
rear toe has tightened up the rear of that particular car.
A bigger than normal amount of toe out on the front does wonders for initial turn in for some cars.
Our Zed has never had a rear end problem (maybe Nathans not going fast enough) so we run the rear with no toe.
That 4mm of toe would cost a few Kph at the end of a straight so why have it if it,s not needed
09-02-2004, 04:21 PM
#15
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Oz
Posts: 795
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Our Zed has never had a rear end problem (maybe Nathans not going fast enough) so we run the rear with no toe. That 4mm of toe would cost a few Kph at the end of a straight so why have it if it,s not needed
Thanks Peter. I have not had any issues with the rear grip in the Zed either (so I guess I'm not going fast enough either ;-). I'll see how it feels once I'm at Sandown in 2 weeks. Unless I feel the car needed it at Sandown, I'll probably 1/2 the rear toe-in. My plan is to get it down to 2mm just for extra security/stablity.
Thanks Peter. I have not had any issues with the rear grip in the Zed either (so I guess I'm not going fast enough either ;-). I'll see how it feels once I'm at Sandown in 2 weeks. Unless I feel the car needed it at Sandown, I'll probably 1/2 the rear toe-in. My plan is to get it down to 2mm just for extra security/stablity.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Lt_Ballzacki
Brakes & Suspension
39
08-06-2021 06:19 AM
