Helmet testing article
Helmet testing article
Came across a great article in Motorcyclist about helmets from their June issue. It's a must-read.
http://motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/hatz/
It'll be interesting to see what kind of implications this may have on future standards for us carguys since we have embodied the Snell as the standard. From what I remember in the past, the principle differences between Snell and M-rated designs is the Nomex lining and the resilience to impact on an object (namely rollbar).
http://motorcyclistonline.com/gearbox/hatz/
It'll be interesting to see what kind of implications this may have on future standards for us carguys since we have embodied the Snell as the standard. From what I remember in the past, the principle differences between Snell and M-rated designs is the Nomex lining and the resilience to impact on an object (namely rollbar).
John, thanks for sharing a GREAT article! I've ridden bikes on & off since I was 16....so you know that was a LONG time ago, and I always thought SNELL knew it's sh*t. ALL the HPDE's I run require Snell SA2000 helmets, and I believe all American race organizations do also. Sad to read that they have their "old news" ego stuck up their posterior! Let's all hope this article wakes them (Snell) and all race organizers to re-evaluate their requirements. But reading Snell's responses, I doubt they will modify their cash crow(not sure that is the word I mean).
Interesting that the test was done by a magazine on sport bikes, who's readership probably has 80% use of big dollar Snell helmets. And I'm sure a lot of their advertising $ comes from the big $ helmet manufacturers.
I'm hoping for the day when NO ONE gets hurt from a head injury.
Now, what's the latest news on SCCA requiring open face helmets?
Interesting that the test was done by a magazine on sport bikes, who's readership probably has 80% use of big dollar Snell helmets. And I'm sure a lot of their advertising $ comes from the big $ helmet manufacturers.
I'm hoping for the day when NO ONE gets hurt from a head injury.
Now, what's the latest news on SCCA requiring open face helmets?
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
From: New Bern, NC
John, that is a very intersting article...
I'll have to read it again when I have time to read it very carefully (something I can't do here at work). I've also forwarded it to our track events team for them to read.
We have to keep in mind that this is all coming from a motorcycle perspective, which you have to admit, is quite different than an automotive perspective. My gut reaction was to interpret the article as an attack on Snell for allegedly arbitrary standards, and I think most would agree that was an underlying rip-current... but it certainly raises some very good points about helmets we as organizers dis-allow because they don't conform to the Snell standards.
A key point in this that was mentioned almost in passing in the article was the fact that DOT standards are not held to standardized compliance. It would seem to indicate that Snell at least physically tests each new model that is presented in order to certify it... whereas the other standards must simply show data (again, a careful re-reading may show me differently).
The article also mentions the orange-size ball test... well... if you look at a roll bar, its usually round, as is a steering wheel... I'm not taking sides, I'm just sayin'... Also, there's a difference in being strapped in with your head bobbing around (whip-like) with roll bars and a-pillars to hit, and most likely multiple times, especially in the case of a high-speed roll-over. I'd like to see the same tests done comparing M rated helmets vs SA rated helmets.
The article certainly made me think - I'm going to suggest to our organizers that we do some research ourselves on the issue.
-Stacy King
HPDE Coordinator
Triangle Z Club / Tarheel sport
I'll have to read it again when I have time to read it very carefully (something I can't do here at work). I've also forwarded it to our track events team for them to read.
We have to keep in mind that this is all coming from a motorcycle perspective, which you have to admit, is quite different than an automotive perspective. My gut reaction was to interpret the article as an attack on Snell for allegedly arbitrary standards, and I think most would agree that was an underlying rip-current... but it certainly raises some very good points about helmets we as organizers dis-allow because they don't conform to the Snell standards.
A key point in this that was mentioned almost in passing in the article was the fact that DOT standards are not held to standardized compliance. It would seem to indicate that Snell at least physically tests each new model that is presented in order to certify it... whereas the other standards must simply show data (again, a careful re-reading may show me differently).
The article also mentions the orange-size ball test... well... if you look at a roll bar, its usually round, as is a steering wheel... I'm not taking sides, I'm just sayin'... Also, there's a difference in being strapped in with your head bobbing around (whip-like) with roll bars and a-pillars to hit, and most likely multiple times, especially in the case of a high-speed roll-over. I'd like to see the same tests done comparing M rated helmets vs SA rated helmets.
The article certainly made me think - I'm going to suggest to our organizers that we do some research ourselves on the issue.
-Stacy King
HPDE Coordinator
Triangle Z Club / Tarheel sport
Trending Topics
Please, please, PLEASE, remember that the testing that they did was only relevant to a majority of motorcycle crash types. Please do not take this to mean that the data also corresponds to cars. I've been discussing this article for a while with some scientist friends, and the concensus is that it is a good idea to start shifting helmet research to more individualized arenas, and that this data should lead to further investigation by rating organizations such as Snell Foundation. It should also stir up the interest needed to get the public behind the need for research.
BUT, these tests were designed for very specific impact situations, which do/may not have any correlation to how we need to be protected in a car.
I also have not found the reply that they say Snell issued with regard to their article, so it is foolish for me to jump to a conclusion about what Snell's stance is. I also would like to look much further in depth at the methodology the Snell Foundation employs and know the reasons why. In the mean time, I will continue to wear my Snell certified SA2000 helmet, feeling secure with my padded (the hard stuff) roll cage, and my HANS device and head restraint seat....
BUT, these tests were designed for very specific impact situations, which do/may not have any correlation to how we need to be protected in a car.
I also have not found the reply that they say Snell issued with regard to their article, so it is foolish for me to jump to a conclusion about what Snell's stance is. I also would like to look much further in depth at the methodology the Snell Foundation employs and know the reasons why. In the mean time, I will continue to wear my Snell certified SA2000 helmet, feeling secure with my padded (the hard stuff) roll cage, and my HANS device and head restraint seat....
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,604
Likes: 0
From: New Bern, NC
Guys... even though I still haven't carefully read the whole thing, I've read enough I think to at the very least encourage everyone NOT to go jumping off the deep end here.
If you're a motorcycle rider, this article should help you rest easier knowing that even a low-priced helmet will provide you with a very reasonable amount of protection for street and track driving.
Those of us using helmets for automotive applications however, are presented with vastly different parameters in cases of accidents. Our heads are generally attached to our bodies which are usually strapped into 3000 lbs of steel and aluminum. The die-hards have steel poles welded or bolted inside the car just inches away from our heads.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, before jumping to the conclusions this article leads to, PLEASE take the time to visit www.smf.org and read about the testing they go through to vertify these helmets. Here is the final version of the SA2005 standard:
http://www.smf.org/standards/2005/sa...005_final.html
FWIW
Stacy King
HPDE Coordinator
Triangle Z Club / Tarheel Sports Car Club
If you're a motorcycle rider, this article should help you rest easier knowing that even a low-priced helmet will provide you with a very reasonable amount of protection for street and track driving.
Those of us using helmets for automotive applications however, are presented with vastly different parameters in cases of accidents. Our heads are generally attached to our bodies which are usually strapped into 3000 lbs of steel and aluminum. The die-hards have steel poles welded or bolted inside the car just inches away from our heads.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, before jumping to the conclusions this article leads to, PLEASE take the time to visit www.smf.org and read about the testing they go through to vertify these helmets. Here is the final version of the SA2005 standard:
http://www.smf.org/standards/2005/sa...005_final.html
FWIW
Stacy King
HPDE Coordinator
Triangle Z Club / Tarheel Sports Car Club
being a fairly die-hard motorcyclist (ie, i commute every day, all year, in and out of downtown washington, just got back from a 2 week 5500 mile trip, etc), this issue is near and dear to my heart (as in, i'd like it to continue to beat for a while longer). much of the testing is based on work done by Harry Hurt ~20 years ago in what is some of the only real accident data analysis ever done. i happen to generally agree with the conclusions motorcyclist came to, but yet I ride with an Arai (Snell certed). Why? Because none of the inexpensive helmets I've tried are 1/10 as comfortable. The liner materials are better, and so is the fit (a key component of whether a helmet works or not in an impact). whenever i go into a shop, i try on the cheaper non-snell helmets hoping i find one i can live with.
be that as it may, the data discussed in the article has zero direct applicability. as was discussed above, the needs of a motorcyclist's helmet and a racer's (someone in an 4-wheeler) with a cage wrapped around them are decidedly different. i'm not in any way saying the concepts discussed in the article don't apply, but keep in mind that the data being discussed may not have any relavance to SA helmets. and since there is no DOT equivalent to SA, there really aren't any options (at least as far as I can tell).
ahm
be that as it may, the data discussed in the article has zero direct applicability. as was discussed above, the needs of a motorcyclist's helmet and a racer's (someone in an 4-wheeler) with a cage wrapped around them are decidedly different. i'm not in any way saying the concepts discussed in the article don't apply, but keep in mind that the data being discussed may not have any relavance to SA helmets. and since there is no DOT equivalent to SA, there really aren't any options (at least as far as I can tell).
ahm
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Gruppe-S
Body Interior
13
May 16, 2016 10:42 PM
