Redline Time Attack - Calispeedway Feb10th/11th
Yes i think if we had the complete undertray system finished and fitted, you (Mike & Scott) would have really seen some grip in the slow turns. The center
section of the car (between the wheels) is a gold mine for down force , and i intend to exploit this fully.
section of the car (between the wheels) is a gold mine for down force , and i intend to exploit this fully.
Originally Posted by Eagle1
Steve:
I followed you a few laps during practice at BW last time. You definitely had a fine line and can drive fast, brother!
The aero at CS will make a difference in two spots, and that is the turn in from a braking interval at the end of the two longest straights. But don't discount the importance of that. By keeping the back end down, and still having plenty of downforce from the weight shift forward for the outside front tire to bite on turn in, you can get on throttle quicker and harder without oversteer, and launch out of the turn....and that is good for serious lap time improvement.
At BW, with the Riverside turn, the increasing radius turn at the end of the front straight, and Bus Stop, even the hairpin before the esses when running clockwise................aero delivers results big time.
I followed you a few laps during practice at BW last time. You definitely had a fine line and can drive fast, brother!
The aero at CS will make a difference in two spots, and that is the turn in from a braking interval at the end of the two longest straights. But don't discount the importance of that. By keeping the back end down, and still having plenty of downforce from the weight shift forward for the outside front tire to bite on turn in, you can get on throttle quicker and harder without oversteer, and launch out of the turn....and that is good for serious lap time improvement.
At BW, with the Riverside turn, the increasing radius turn at the end of the front straight, and Bus Stop, even the hairpin before the esses when running clockwise................aero delivers results big time.
Last edited by kognition; Feb 17, 2007 at 09:07 AM.
Originally Posted by Eagle1
Steve:
I followed you a few laps during practice at BW last time. You definitely had a fine line and can drive fast, brother!
The aero at CS will make a difference in two spots, and that is the turn in from a braking interval at the end of the two longest straights. But don't discount the importance of that. By keeping the back end down, and still having plenty of downforce from the weight shift forward for the outside front tire to bite on turn in, you can get on throttle quicker and harder without oversteer, and launch out of the turn....and that is good for serious lap time improvement.
At BW, with the Riverside turn, the increasing radius turn at the end of the front straight, and Bus Stop, even the hairpin before the esses when running clockwise................aero delivers results big time.
I followed you a few laps during practice at BW last time. You definitely had a fine line and can drive fast, brother!
The aero at CS will make a difference in two spots, and that is the turn in from a braking interval at the end of the two longest straights. But don't discount the importance of that. By keeping the back end down, and still having plenty of downforce from the weight shift forward for the outside front tire to bite on turn in, you can get on throttle quicker and harder without oversteer, and launch out of the turn....and that is good for serious lap time improvement.
At BW, with the Riverside turn, the increasing radius turn at the end of the front straight, and Bus Stop, even the hairpin before the esses when running clockwise................aero delivers results big time.
Thanks, Ed. Actually, I think I still need to work on my line in the CW direction. I think I can be faster through the Bus Stop, and maybe better in the Cotton Corner area. I also don't think I took the esses nearly as well going CW as I did CCW, so there is definitely some room for improvement there. For me, it was easier entering the esses in 5th gear and getting the car slowed down going CCW than it was trying to modulate throttle under acceleration heading through them going CW. I think I am quicker (at the moment, relatively speaking) going CCW. Plus I just had a blast coming out of the esses and heading into the Star Mazda corner - that is one of the most fun corner combinations of any track that I have ever driven! But I plan to be quicker at BW next time for a variety of reasons.
Maybe Scott will let me follow him for a few laps to pick up some pointers...
I agree that the aero parts help under braking at the end of the two straights at Cal Speedway. All cars will shift a lot of weight forward under braking - I think the wing on the rear may help to keep a bigger contact patch or at least more weight on the rear tires by adding some downforce to aid in braking. As you point out, I would think it may help in the turn at the end of the back straight, since there is still some substantial speed entering that turn. The difference between 1st and 3rd place in the Street RWD class there was only like 0.3 seconds - so every little bit helps!
Originally Posted by knight_white99
Thanks, Ed. Actually, I think I still need to work on my line in the CW direction. I think I can be faster through the Bus Stop, and maybe better in the Cotton Corner area. I also don't think I took the esses nearly as well going CW as I did CCW, so there is definitely some room for improvement there. For me, it was easier entering the esses in 5th gear and getting the car slowed down going CCW than it was trying to modulate throttle under acceleration heading through them going CW. I think I am quicker (at the moment, relatively speaking) going CCW. Plus I just had a blast coming out of the esses and heading into the Star Mazda corner - that is one of the most fun corner combinations of any track that I have ever driven! But I plan to be quicker at BW next time for a variety of reasons.
Maybe Scott will let me follow him for a few laps to pick up some pointers...
I agree that the aero parts help under braking at the end of the two straights at Cal Speedway. All cars will shift a lot of weight forward under braking - I think the wing on the rear may help to keep a bigger contact patch or at least more weight on the rear tires by adding some downforce to aid in braking. As you point out, I would think it may help in the turn at the end of the back straight, since there is still some substantial speed entering that turn. The difference between 1st and 3rd place in the Street RWD class there was only like 0.3 seconds - so every little bit helps!
Maybe Scott will let me follow him for a few laps to pick up some pointers...
I agree that the aero parts help under braking at the end of the two straights at Cal Speedway. All cars will shift a lot of weight forward under braking - I think the wing on the rear may help to keep a bigger contact patch or at least more weight on the rear tires by adding some downforce to aid in braking. As you point out, I would think it may help in the turn at the end of the back straight, since there is still some substantial speed entering that turn. The difference between 1st and 3rd place in the Street RWD class there was only like 0.3 seconds - so every little bit helps!
All very good observations, Steve. Buttonwillow, with 23 turns per lap (depending on how you count some of the compound turns) is a technical track, and it sets up quite differently when going in the different directions. One way will get more comfortable quicker while the other will expose us to lesser skill or technique and thus force us to do a little more work on getting the car to move quickly. For example, I find that the CW direction coming into the esses is not so difficult as long as the apex on the hairpin that leads to entry is late enough (the radius at exit is sharply diminishing so you will go two wheels off otherwise)...then it is just WOT and upshift all the way, and done right you catch an up shift to fifth just in between the last two esses and are hard on it, holding steering lock and drifting just to the edge of the track on the right where you unwind and whoosh up to the Sunset turn. I think that is much easier than coming down the other way in fifth and setting up for the esses, braking and getting turn in just right. But that probably illustrates the point that each of us has a level of discomfort with some skill sets that the other guy finds more natural!
The Bus Stop is without doubt a major gut check corner, and HUGE gains are available with the additional speed you can carry up to the Riverside Sweeper if one can set up right for it. Smooth transition to the right side is the key as you load up the suspension, and then roll it back over to the left for the set up to Riverside. It has to flow rather than "rock".
Originally Posted by Eagle1
All very good observations, Steve. Buttonwillow, with 23 turns per lap (depending on how you count some of the compound turns) is a technical track, and it sets up quite differently when going in the different directions. One way will get more comfortable quicker while the other will expose us to lesser skill or technique and thus force us to do a little more work on getting the car to move quickly. For example, I find that the CW direction coming into the esses is not so difficult as long as the apex on the hairpin that leads to entry is late enough (the radius at exit is sharply diminishing so you will go two wheels off otherwise)...then it is just WOT and upshift all the way, and done right you catch an up shift to fifth just in between the last two esses and are hard on it, holding steering lock and drifting just to the edge of the track on the right where you unwind and whoosh up to the Sunset turn. I think that is much easier than coming down the other way in fifth and setting up for the esses, braking and getting turn in just right. But that probably illustrates the point that each of us has a level of discomfort with some skill sets that the other guy finds more natural!
The Bus Stop is without doubt a major gut check corner, and HUGE gains are available with the additional speed you can carry up to the Riverside Sweeper if one can set up right for it. Smooth transition to the right side is the key as you load up the suspension, and then roll it back over to the left for the set up to Riverside. It has to flow rather than "rock".
The Bus Stop is without doubt a major gut check corner, and HUGE gains are available with the additional speed you can carry up to the Riverside Sweeper if one can set up right for it. Smooth transition to the right side is the key as you load up the suspension, and then roll it back over to the left for the set up to Riverside. It has to flow rather than "rock".
Certainly, different people have different strengths and weaknesses, Ed.
You're certainly right about late apexing the last turn prior to entering the esses. Still, I found that on street tires, coming up through the esses, I was not able to go to WOT through the esses until close to the exit - I just didn't have the grip. And it got hairy modulating throttle through there since to get sideways through the esses and at the same time having to make direction changes through the esses is not so easy. I don't doubt that WOT can work with race rubber, but I have never tried it on race rubber. Whereas slowing the car down through the esses was a matter of scrubbing speed (or rather, scrubbing speed as little as possible) in the right place at the right time, a skill that I found easier to master. It was rewarding to go through there fast going CCW, and rocketing out of the last turn into the Star Mazda turn. Not so rewarding for me going the other way.
Sunset corner is another one of those tricky corners. You have to enter at the right speed and be patient, and not get on the throttle too early on the exit, or you will quickly run out of race track and end up in the dirt!
Originally Posted by knight_white99
Sunset corner is another one of those tricky corners. You have to enter at the right speed and be patient, and not get on the throttle too early on the exit, or you will quickly run out of race track and end up in the dirt!
Times are posted. http://www.redlinetimeattack.com/index-results.htm
Street Class RWD:
1st Place: 1:18.464 Scott Bush/Mike Bonanni Nissan 350Z
2nd Place: 1:18.571 (tie) Jeff Tyler Berk MR2 / Aaron Bitterman VRT 350Z
3rd Place: 1:19.295 Aaron Chung Honda S2000
Modified Class RWD:
1st Place: 1:12.000 Billy Johnson Factor X NSX
2nd Place: 1:12.277 Ryan Schimsk SPL Parts Nissan 300ZX
3rd Place: 1:12.656 Michael Alvarez VRT 350Z
Unlimited Class RWD:
1st Place 1:08.656 James Sofronis GMG Porche GT3
2nd Place: 1:08.928 Tyler McQuarrie JIC MAGIC USA/Hankook Tires S15 Silvia
3rd Place: 1:12.279 Steve Mitchell M-Works 350Z
Street Class RWD:
1st Place: 1:18.464 Scott Bush/Mike Bonanni Nissan 350Z
2nd Place: 1:18.571 (tie) Jeff Tyler Berk MR2 / Aaron Bitterman VRT 350Z
3rd Place: 1:19.295 Aaron Chung Honda S2000
Modified Class RWD:
1st Place: 1:12.000 Billy Johnson Factor X NSX
2nd Place: 1:12.277 Ryan Schimsk SPL Parts Nissan 300ZX
3rd Place: 1:12.656 Michael Alvarez VRT 350Z
Unlimited Class RWD:
1st Place 1:08.656 James Sofronis GMG Porche GT3
2nd Place: 1:08.928 Tyler McQuarrie JIC MAGIC USA/Hankook Tires S15 Silvia
3rd Place: 1:12.279 Steve Mitchell M-Works 350Z
The SPL Parts Nissan 300ZX (TT) that took 2nd place in mod Class RWD (and third place by time overall) is badass. Some footage here: http://www.splparts.com/events/redline0207/redline2.mpg
Another good vid: http://www.splparts.com/events/redline0207/redline1.mpg
Turned up, it also runs 10s 1/4 miles. ;-)
Another good vid: http://www.splparts.com/events/redline0207/redline1.mpg
Turned up, it also runs 10s 1/4 miles. ;-)
Last edited by scotts300; Feb 27, 2007 at 08:53 AM.
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