Mid Ohio NASA track day summary
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Mid Ohio NASA track day summary
Well, several of us from My350Z.com went to the Mid Ohio Sports Car Course last weekend, April 4-6, for the NASA high-performance driver's education (HPDE) on-track event. Besides myself, commasense, SunsetZ, and Hedonist were there in 350Z's. Dwnshft was there with the Shuitemaker Motorsports team and their 350Z Grand Am Cup race car. And although he has the misfortune of not owning a Z 
, ellisnc was there with his formidable WRX.
I just want to start this thread, and hopefully you other guys who were there will post your comments, too.
I went on Friday 4/4 and Saturday 4/5. First of all, it rained on and off all day Friday, and temps didn't get out of the 50s. I was in the HPDE 1 group, and this was my first track event in any kind of car. SunsetZ and commasense were also there on Friday. SunsetZ was in HPDE 1 with me, and commasense was in group 2/3 (they combined groups 2 and 3 for this event).
After a slow familiarization lap around the track with our instructors, and some classroom basics on flags, safety, and passing rules, we headed out onto the track. Being beginners, we started out slowly -- although that's a relative term. My Z felt great: plenty of torque to get it moving, crisp turn-in, flat through the corners, and plenty eager to stretch its legs on the three straights. Within a few laps I was almost redlining 4th on the back straight. Although I easily could have, I didn't go up to 5th, in order to stay out of trouble when braking hard for the right-hander into the esses. Talk about exercising restraint! My goal for the day was to learn the line and keep it under control with all 4 on the tarmac. The first session lasted about 25 minutes, which must have been about 10-12 laps. Luckily the rain held off while we were on the track!
The rest of Friday is kind of a blur. We had 3 more sessions averaging about 25 minutes each. Each time out I learned even more, and I owe my instructor, Judy, big time for that. She really had me focusing on getting the line correct and being smooth. I was a little surprised about the passing rules in HPDE 1. Passing was OK only on the straights and only on driver's left with a point by. That was fine, though, 'cause my Z was frequently tight up on slower drivers coming out on the straights. Don't get me wrong, I was passed, too -- but we weren't competing so there wasn't any shame!
There was a slightly hairy moment in the afternoon when I was about 3 cars deep in a 5 car train. A Civic spun out coming out of turn 2 (the keyhole), and everyone checked up and watched him instead of getting on the gas (this turn opens into the back straight). I stayed back behind the cars in front and braked, and some guys behind me passed on my left and right. No contact, and everyone was fine, but it increased the heart rate from say, 110 (normal track bpm ) to 120. I found out later the Civic's frame cracked between the rear wheels! I think this happened before he spun -- he said his car was really loose before the spin and felt really odd.
It stayed cold and rained on and off the rest of the day on Friday -- just kind of miserable weather to be hanging around outside. The good thing is that the rain was never more than a sprinkle during my sessions. The track was wet but not soaked, and since it was in constant use by all the other groups during the day the line stayed dry for the most part.
I kept the VDC/TCS on throughout both days. I know my Z was pushing somewhat, and the tires squealed through the corners, but to be honest I don't remember the Slip light ever coming on. What does that mean? Maybe I wasn't pushing the car hard enough to use the VDC? I don't know. I did get loose once on Friday coming out of the carousel onto the front straight. I put the power down too soon. It was just a waggle of the rear end, and I eased off the gas slightly and corrected the steering while the rear hooked back up. It was a good lesson, and I kept it in mind during the rest of my sessions.
On Saturday Hedonist joined the fun in HPDE 1. It was cool having 3 350Z's on the track! I switched instructors on Saturday, and this guy was more aggressive than my instructor on Friday (who is his wife, BTW). I was really starting to learn the track. Mid Ohio is a super course, in my novice opinion: 13 turns (we ran the pro config, same as CART -- no chicane between t1 and 2), nice elevation changes, smooth tarmac, wide, and plenty challenging. I continued to concentrate on the line on Saturday, but tried to carry more speed through the corners. I gave my brakes (non-Brembo on my Touring 6MT) a pretty good workout, and they held strong. It was pretty cold both days, so that helped. I was using 5th on the back straight on Saturday; I max'ed out around 115 mph, not quite 120. By my second session on Saturday, my instructor was having me pull into the pit during the session because I was passing too many cars and getting held up by slower traffic. It was great to get some clear track and really focus.
If you haven't driven Mid Ohio, I should mention the turn called Madness. Someone correct me here -- I think technically it's the area between turns 5 and 6, right after the esses. You end the fast back straight, hit a quick right-hander then go left uphill. The crest of the hill is at the end of the turn. Over the crest it's blind going into turn 6, and the track drops off toward the right side. You come over the crest with a lot of speed, and you can go weightless if you're going fast enough (I wasn't
). But your momemtum is carrying the car to the right, to the outside. You have to open up the steering before you go down the hill and set up for the right-hander on the far left side of turn 6. It felt really wrong to me to open up the steering at that point, because opening it up usually takes you further to the outside. But in Madness, since the outside (the right side) of the track is downhill and sloped to the right, you need to give it some gas to plant the rear end and open the steering to avoid spinning when the front hooks up. The name says it all -- true madness! Ellisnc (Nate) might have some more to share with you here!
The variety of cars in our class was impressive: a couple Z06's, a BMW 525, at least one Camaro, Mustang, and Civic, and even a Caterham Super 7. On Saturday a Viper GTS joined, along with Hedonist's 350Z and ellisnc's WRX, some Beemers, an S2000, and others I don't remember.
Well, I could write a novel about last weekend, but I'll stop here. It was a total blast, and I will definitely be taking my Z to the track again. I learned an incredible amount, I have a better idea of what my Z is capable of (more than I am at this point!), and I met some great people from My350Z, NASA, and the other drivers.
I took a few pics, but they're not all that great: www.brackethead.com/midohio2003apr/ . We should have some more pics in a few days. Next up: BeaveRun (western PA) NASA event in May. See ya!
, ellisnc was there with his formidable WRX.I just want to start this thread, and hopefully you other guys who were there will post your comments, too.
I went on Friday 4/4 and Saturday 4/5. First of all, it rained on and off all day Friday, and temps didn't get out of the 50s. I was in the HPDE 1 group, and this was my first track event in any kind of car. SunsetZ and commasense were also there on Friday. SunsetZ was in HPDE 1 with me, and commasense was in group 2/3 (they combined groups 2 and 3 for this event).
After a slow familiarization lap around the track with our instructors, and some classroom basics on flags, safety, and passing rules, we headed out onto the track. Being beginners, we started out slowly -- although that's a relative term. My Z felt great: plenty of torque to get it moving, crisp turn-in, flat through the corners, and plenty eager to stretch its legs on the three straights. Within a few laps I was almost redlining 4th on the back straight. Although I easily could have, I didn't go up to 5th, in order to stay out of trouble when braking hard for the right-hander into the esses. Talk about exercising restraint! My goal for the day was to learn the line and keep it under control with all 4 on the tarmac. The first session lasted about 25 minutes, which must have been about 10-12 laps. Luckily the rain held off while we were on the track!
The rest of Friday is kind of a blur. We had 3 more sessions averaging about 25 minutes each. Each time out I learned even more, and I owe my instructor, Judy, big time for that. She really had me focusing on getting the line correct and being smooth. I was a little surprised about the passing rules in HPDE 1. Passing was OK only on the straights and only on driver's left with a point by. That was fine, though, 'cause my Z was frequently tight up on slower drivers coming out on the straights. Don't get me wrong, I was passed, too -- but we weren't competing so there wasn't any shame!
There was a slightly hairy moment in the afternoon when I was about 3 cars deep in a 5 car train. A Civic spun out coming out of turn 2 (the keyhole), and everyone checked up and watched him instead of getting on the gas (this turn opens into the back straight). I stayed back behind the cars in front and braked, and some guys behind me passed on my left and right. No contact, and everyone was fine, but it increased the heart rate from say, 110 (normal track bpm
) to 120. I found out later the Civic's frame cracked between the rear wheels! I think this happened before he spun -- he said his car was really loose before the spin and felt really odd.It stayed cold and rained on and off the rest of the day on Friday -- just kind of miserable weather to be hanging around outside. The good thing is that the rain was never more than a sprinkle during my sessions. The track was wet but not soaked, and since it was in constant use by all the other groups during the day the line stayed dry for the most part.
I kept the VDC/TCS on throughout both days. I know my Z was pushing somewhat, and the tires squealed through the corners, but to be honest I don't remember the Slip light ever coming on. What does that mean? Maybe I wasn't pushing the car hard enough to use the VDC? I don't know. I did get loose once on Friday coming out of the carousel onto the front straight. I put the power down too soon. It was just a waggle of the rear end, and I eased off the gas slightly and corrected the steering while the rear hooked back up. It was a good lesson, and I kept it in mind during the rest of my sessions.
On Saturday Hedonist joined the fun in HPDE 1. It was cool having 3 350Z's on the track! I switched instructors on Saturday, and this guy was more aggressive than my instructor on Friday (who is his wife, BTW). I was really starting to learn the track. Mid Ohio is a super course, in my novice opinion: 13 turns (we ran the pro config, same as CART -- no chicane between t1 and 2), nice elevation changes, smooth tarmac, wide, and plenty challenging. I continued to concentrate on the line on Saturday, but tried to carry more speed through the corners. I gave my brakes (non-Brembo on my Touring 6MT) a pretty good workout, and they held strong. It was pretty cold both days, so that helped. I was using 5th on the back straight on Saturday; I max'ed out around 115 mph, not quite 120. By my second session on Saturday, my instructor was having me pull into the pit during the session because I was passing too many cars and getting held up by slower traffic. It was great to get some clear track and really focus.
If you haven't driven Mid Ohio, I should mention the turn called Madness. Someone correct me here -- I think technically it's the area between turns 5 and 6, right after the esses. You end the fast back straight, hit a quick right-hander then go left uphill. The crest of the hill is at the end of the turn. Over the crest it's blind going into turn 6, and the track drops off toward the right side. You come over the crest with a lot of speed, and you can go weightless if you're going fast enough (I wasn't
). But your momemtum is carrying the car to the right, to the outside. You have to open up the steering before you go down the hill and set up for the right-hander on the far left side of turn 6. It felt really wrong to me to open up the steering at that point, because opening it up usually takes you further to the outside. But in Madness, since the outside (the right side) of the track is downhill and sloped to the right, you need to give it some gas to plant the rear end and open the steering to avoid spinning when the front hooks up. The name says it all -- true madness! Ellisnc (Nate) might have some more to share with you here!The variety of cars in our class was impressive: a couple Z06's, a BMW 525, at least one Camaro, Mustang, and Civic, and even a Caterham Super 7. On Saturday a Viper GTS joined, along with Hedonist's 350Z and ellisnc's WRX, some Beemers, an S2000, and others I don't remember.
Well, I could write a novel about last weekend, but I'll stop here. It was a total blast, and I will definitely be taking my Z to the track again. I learned an incredible amount, I have a better idea of what my Z is capable of (more than I am at this point!), and I met some great people from My350Z, NASA, and the other drivers.
I took a few pics, but they're not all that great: www.brackethead.com/midohio2003apr/ . We should have some more pics in a few days. Next up: BeaveRun (western PA) NASA event in May. See ya!
Last edited by brackethead; Apr 11, 2003 at 08:42 AM.
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I have a few minutes here at Kinko's (waiting for a proof of my newsletter) to finally add some comments to Brackethead's report. Sorry for the delay, but since I had almost totally neglected work in the week and a half leading up to Mid-Ohio, once I got back I thought I better set aside track stuff for a while and put my nose to the grindstone.
Brackethead's report is very good, except that he left out what is probably the most memorable single detail of the weekend: the cold!
Late on Friday, after the on-and-off rain he mentioned, a huge black cloud passed over. I was on the track at the time, and since two of the previous three sessions that day had been wet, I decided that I didn't need to be out there when the track turned into a swimming pool. So I pulled off. I was sure the sky was going to open up any second, but to everyone's surprise, the rain didn't come.
However, the temperature dropped from the mid 40s to the mid 30s in about five minutes. And it stayed between 25 and 35 for most of the rest of the weekend!!! It was literally freezing! It was actually snowing during a couple of the sessions, although it didn't stick, and I never saw any ice on the track.
Since it was April, no one was expecting this, so most of us were shivering in light sweaters or sweatshirts for the next two days, except, of course, when we were out on the track. And there were no heated buildings to retreat to, either. (I will remain discreetly silent about the certain people--who shall remain nameless--who slipped into one of the VIP rooms in the Tower for lunch until we -- I mean, they -- were chased out by a track official. Never saw them, don't know them. No, sir!)
Saturday was the worst, with temps in the low 30s and winds of 20-30 mph. Sunday the air temp was even lower, but so was the wind, so it didn't feel as cold. And in the afternoon the sun almost came out through the clouds, which made it a little better still.
But you wanted to hear about the cars and the track, not the weather. As Brackethead says, the car is great on the track. Among the Z drivers I was senior in age to everyone, and in experience to everyone except BJ (Dwnshft) and his team owner. As regulars know, I've been doing HPDEs for more than three years and have had the Z on the track at Summit Point twice already. It's just great.
I had acquired some Ferodo DS2500 brake pads (combo street-track) and had been planning to change them during the weekend so I could observe the difference between them and stock. However, after helping Hedonist to change his pads in the cold and rain on Friday evening (I told him it would be better to wait, but would he listen to me? Noooooo. Kids!), I decided to wait until it was warmer to conduct my little experiment.
But even on the stock pads, the car handled beautifully. I had run Mid-Ohio two summers ago in the Skip Barber Racing School, so I was familiar with the line (even the rain line, which came in useful on Friday), and it didn't take long in the Z to feel at home on the circuit. It was cool to run the pro course (no chicane entering the keyhole).
I drove all but one or two of the sessions with the VDC off, and was pleased to be able to trail brake quite easily and predictably in the keyhole, madness, and the carousel. Acceleration is great (but you already knew that) and I was able to pass many cars (with a wave by and a lift, of course) and at least keep up with practically everyone on the track, including the Z06s and a TC Kline M3!
Despite having a genius-level IQ and looks rivalling Harrison Ford's (ahem), I try to remain modest. I don't think I'm the greatest driver in the world. So it was very gratifying to hear from my instructor (and I am not making this up) that I am an "excellent" driver. Ladies and gentlemen, Dave Manzella is the greatest instructor in the world! He gave me many useful suggestions and made the whole weekend much more interesting and enjoyable. He also took me out for a session in his 911, which was an education in itself.
I took SunsetZ out for a session in my car on Saturday and Hedonist on Sunday. Each was kind enough to time some of my laps with my stopwatch (a Robic, not the car's). Instructors tell the novices that any time under 2:00 is pretty good, and by my last session on Sunday I had a couple of laps at 1:52. I'm sure with better tires and pads (and maybe some slightly bigger cohones), I could get into the mid 1:40s.
The biggest problem I noticed was the ABS. When the car gets a little light or hits a rough surface, the ABS can kick in even under light braking. I noticed this on the entry into the carousel. The first time it happened, I thought something was wrong, because I only expected it to kick in under heavy braking at the end of a straight. But after a lap or two I realized that the bumps and the little drop off there was enough to do it. It was more of an annoyance than a major problem, but I wish there was a way to disable it. Anyone have any ideas about that?
The final thing I want to say was how nice it was to meet at least four fellow my350z.com'ers in person. Most of the time I go to track events on my own, and although I've gotten to know some of the regulars at SP, it was enjoyable to have some guys to hang around with at Mid-Ohio. I hope I'll see you again sometime. I'm jealous of the guys who are going to BeaveRun next month. I'd like to get to an event there and/or at VIR this year. We'll see.
Compliments also to Lawrence Mansier and the other NASA organizers and workers. It was clearly a lot of work, but everything went very well (except for the weather), and they all did a good job.
I'll post some more pics soon, and I'll get the CDs off to my fellow participants this week.
I'm going to FATT at SP this Friday. I hope the weather will be nicer than it was two weeks ago in Ohio. Anyone else going?
Brackethead's report is very good, except that he left out what is probably the most memorable single detail of the weekend: the cold!
Late on Friday, after the on-and-off rain he mentioned, a huge black cloud passed over. I was on the track at the time, and since two of the previous three sessions that day had been wet, I decided that I didn't need to be out there when the track turned into a swimming pool. So I pulled off. I was sure the sky was going to open up any second, but to everyone's surprise, the rain didn't come.
However, the temperature dropped from the mid 40s to the mid 30s in about five minutes. And it stayed between 25 and 35 for most of the rest of the weekend!!! It was literally freezing! It was actually snowing during a couple of the sessions, although it didn't stick, and I never saw any ice on the track.
Since it was April, no one was expecting this, so most of us were shivering in light sweaters or sweatshirts for the next two days, except, of course, when we were out on the track. And there were no heated buildings to retreat to, either. (I will remain discreetly silent about the certain people--who shall remain nameless--who slipped into one of the VIP rooms in the Tower for lunch until we -- I mean, they -- were chased out by a track official. Never saw them, don't know them. No, sir!)
Saturday was the worst, with temps in the low 30s and winds of 20-30 mph. Sunday the air temp was even lower, but so was the wind, so it didn't feel as cold. And in the afternoon the sun almost came out through the clouds, which made it a little better still.
But you wanted to hear about the cars and the track, not the weather. As Brackethead says, the car is great on the track. Among the Z drivers I was senior in age to everyone, and in experience to everyone except BJ (Dwnshft) and his team owner. As regulars know, I've been doing HPDEs for more than three years and have had the Z on the track at Summit Point twice already. It's just great.
I had acquired some Ferodo DS2500 brake pads (combo street-track) and had been planning to change them during the weekend so I could observe the difference between them and stock. However, after helping Hedonist to change his pads in the cold and rain on Friday evening (I told him it would be better to wait, but would he listen to me? Noooooo. Kids!), I decided to wait until it was warmer to conduct my little experiment.
But even on the stock pads, the car handled beautifully. I had run Mid-Ohio two summers ago in the Skip Barber Racing School, so I was familiar with the line (even the rain line, which came in useful on Friday), and it didn't take long in the Z to feel at home on the circuit. It was cool to run the pro course (no chicane entering the keyhole).
I drove all but one or two of the sessions with the VDC off, and was pleased to be able to trail brake quite easily and predictably in the keyhole, madness, and the carousel. Acceleration is great (but you already knew that) and I was able to pass many cars (with a wave by and a lift, of course) and at least keep up with practically everyone on the track, including the Z06s and a TC Kline M3!
Despite having a genius-level IQ and looks rivalling Harrison Ford's (ahem), I try to remain modest. I don't think I'm the greatest driver in the world. So it was very gratifying to hear from my instructor (and I am not making this up) that I am an "excellent" driver. Ladies and gentlemen, Dave Manzella is the greatest instructor in the world! He gave me many useful suggestions and made the whole weekend much more interesting and enjoyable. He also took me out for a session in his 911, which was an education in itself.
I took SunsetZ out for a session in my car on Saturday and Hedonist on Sunday. Each was kind enough to time some of my laps with my stopwatch (a Robic, not the car's). Instructors tell the novices that any time under 2:00 is pretty good, and by my last session on Sunday I had a couple of laps at 1:52. I'm sure with better tires and pads (and maybe some slightly bigger cohones), I could get into the mid 1:40s.
The biggest problem I noticed was the ABS. When the car gets a little light or hits a rough surface, the ABS can kick in even under light braking. I noticed this on the entry into the carousel. The first time it happened, I thought something was wrong, because I only expected it to kick in under heavy braking at the end of a straight. But after a lap or two I realized that the bumps and the little drop off there was enough to do it. It was more of an annoyance than a major problem, but I wish there was a way to disable it. Anyone have any ideas about that?
The final thing I want to say was how nice it was to meet at least four fellow my350z.com'ers in person. Most of the time I go to track events on my own, and although I've gotten to know some of the regulars at SP, it was enjoyable to have some guys to hang around with at Mid-Ohio. I hope I'll see you again sometime. I'm jealous of the guys who are going to BeaveRun next month. I'd like to get to an event there and/or at VIR this year. We'll see.
Compliments also to Lawrence Mansier and the other NASA organizers and workers. It was clearly a lot of work, but everything went very well (except for the weather), and they all did a good job.
I'll post some more pics soon, and I'll get the CDs off to my fellow participants this week.
I'm going to FATT at SP this Friday. I hope the weather will be nicer than it was two weeks ago in Ohio. Anyone else going?
Last edited by commasense; Apr 14, 2003 at 04:36 PM.
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Yeah, I love the action photos! I never got around to exploring the infield with my camera.
Do y'all like my color-keyed headlights? Who knew that Silverstone matches perfectly with duct tape?
Do y'all like my color-keyed headlights? Who knew that Silverstone matches perfectly with duct tape?
Great story! Great pics! Looks like FUN! Wish I could have been there.
A couple questions......
If headlight taping is required, would my 3M film suffice? I'm thinking that if I put tape over the film, the film might come off when removing the tape. And, why did you have to tape a plastic headlight?
#2....Did anyone note their on track fuel mileage? My guess is around 7 or 8 mpg. I'm thinking ahead for Blackhawk.
Thanks guys!
A couple questions......
If headlight taping is required, would my 3M film suffice? I'm thinking that if I put tape over the film, the film might come off when removing the tape. And, why did you have to tape a plastic headlight?
#2....Did anyone note their on track fuel mileage? My guess is around 7 or 8 mpg. I'm thinking ahead for Blackhawk.
Thanks guys!
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From: Las Vegas, NV
what psi were you guys running? I'm running tomorrow in hopefully 75 degree weather.
If headlight taping is required, would my 3M film suffice? I'm thinking that if I put tape over the film, the film might come off when removing the tape. And, why did you have to tape a plastic headlight?
Actually, that's about as good a reason as any. We were discussing this at the track, and we decided that the original reason was probably two-fold: to prevent damage to the car and to keep broken glass off the track. With our plastic headlghts the second of these reasons is moot (although keep in mind that the replacement cost of the headlight assembly is $600!!!), and if you have the protective film, the first is, too. (The installer of my clear bra put a much thicker plastic shield over the headlights. Not the same as the stuff on the paint. Is that what you have, too? I didn't even think about the tape pulling my shields off.)
Before going out there, I told the organizer of the event about this, and he agreed that I didn't need the tape. But I did it anyway...because it looks cool, like a race car.
Did anyone note their on track fuel mileage? My guess is around 7 or 8 mpg.
James, thanks for the reply! Now that you've gone rice, any more secret tweeks to go faster?
BTW, it does look cool! My wv2 with matching duck tape headlights HAS to be worth 3 seconds a lap!
I got the thick 3M film on my headlights.
Sorry it was soooooooo frigging cold. That's the ***** about planning the future.....weather!
Back to reality, what do you think about a replacement side skirt with a NACA duct for cooling the rear brakes? I'm begining to formulate a design. Not sure about moulding fiberglass to whatever the OEM plastic piece is though......
BTW, it does look cool! My wv2 with matching duck tape headlights HAS to be worth 3 seconds a lap! I got the thick 3M film on my headlights.
Sorry it was soooooooo frigging cold. That's the ***** about planning the future.....weather!
Back to reality, what do you think about a replacement side skirt with a NACA duct for cooling the rear brakes? I'm begining to formulate a design. Not sure about moulding fiberglass to whatever the OEM plastic piece is though......
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Just found more pics from www.racenasa.com. These are our 350Zs:
http://www.racenasa.com/galleries/20...003%20016.html
http://www.racenasa.com/galleries/20...0Photo-59.html
http://www.racenasa.com/galleries/20...0Photo-91.html
http://www.racenasa.com/galleries/20.../DSCF0011.html
http://www.racenasa.com/galleries/20.../DSCF0016.html
http://www.racenasa.com/galleries/20.../DSCF0044.html
And all the event pics are here: http://www.racenasa.com/galleries/20...ril/index.html
http://www.racenasa.com/galleries/20...003%20016.html
http://www.racenasa.com/galleries/20...0Photo-59.html
http://www.racenasa.com/galleries/20...0Photo-91.html
http://www.racenasa.com/galleries/20.../DSCF0011.html
http://www.racenasa.com/galleries/20.../DSCF0016.html
http://www.racenasa.com/galleries/20.../DSCF0044.html
And all the event pics are here: http://www.racenasa.com/galleries/20...ril/index.html
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Originally posted by EnthuZ
James, thanks for the reply! Now that you've gone rice, any more secret tweeks to go faster? BTW, it does look cool! My wv2 with matching duck tape headlights HAS to be worth 3 seconds a lap!
James, thanks for the reply! Now that you've gone rice, any more secret tweeks to go faster?
BTW, it does look cool! My wv2 with matching duck tape headlights HAS to be worth 3 seconds a lap! BJ says they're developing a brake cooling system and a diff cooler, too. He says the diff cooler may be the most important improvement to longevity with the car.
BTW, I just installed and bedded in the Ferodos. I'll be "track testing" them at SP on Friday, and will report back here. The first thing I notice is no obvious increase in noise, except that the tires will now squeal in straight-line, moderately heavy braking. I don't remember the stock pads doing that.
