Maybe I'm just bitter about this. Maybe I need help. You be the judge.

The last two Redline Time Attack sessions I participated in I was screwed over by an illegal car that prevents me from taking 1st place. The first was last year with Redline at their Time Attack session held at Beaverun, PA. I was in modified class and lost to a FOX Mustang Notchback with a clearly illegal rear suspension setup. He was running the Evo-Watts link rear end setup, leaps and bounds above the factory 4 link setup. So that was my first 2nd place finish. Bunk, but whatever.

Now imagine preparing for the second event at the end of the year and the staff doesn't catch another illegal car. This was one belonged to Suja 1 Motoring, their street class Honda S2000 had carbon fiber front fenders which, from what the owner Andrew told me, was to accommodate the larger 255/40/17 tires in the front. Rules clearly state that oe quarter panels must be retained and the only legal cf replacement parts were the hood, trunk/hatch. So again, I finish 2nd place, behind this S2000. Needless to say I was a bit frustrated.

So how would you react to this situation? It's true, I am bitter about this. He posted up on s2ki about his so called victory and of course the community embraced it. I post up about the rules and his modifications, what do they do? Defend him and lock the thread, lol. It's bunk that their own defend his illegal mods.

I know it's hard for their technical inspectors to catch things like this without knowledge of the car they are inspecting but what the hell... rules are rules for a reason.

/rant

 

that does suck...why couldn't you just say something at the event? In AutoX, if you think someone is in the wrong class, you need to speak up b/c many times no one else will notice, especially at smaller events.

Are these full competetions w/ awards? I'm competeting for contingency awards and for my sponsors, so the difference between 1st and 2nd is actually worth a lot to me...otherwise it wouldn't be as big of a deal (it'd be more competeing against myself and wanting to improve my skills)

 

+1 A protest mecanism should be in place and used in these situations. It's the other contestants responsability to point out something the organizers missed.

 

I would be pissed off if there is money involved. If not, just go faster and beat it. I will show up and run with these guys...

 

also remember that there's lots of rules, and even if you know the rules really well, you can read them a different way than someone else...so ppl might not be cheating on purpose; I would always welcome someone telling me that I had a modification that was illegal for my class...while I want to win, it's not worth beating someone else if I'm cheating.

*in the case of the S2000, it sounds like they know that their mod was illegal...sucks to compete against ppl like that. Do you think his mod made the difference between him being faster than you?

 

Ah yeah you need to protest the car while it is at impound. See you series director the next time you see such a car.

A even better to find out who is all in your class, check out their car and the protest before the first lap is even made. This way the person being protested has a chance to at least run in the correct class. Better than no results when found illegal after you have raced. Have to keep in mind you may need their help one day.

Sucks,
Mike

 

If you didn't file a protest at the event you really are in no position to complain about it now. Knowing the car was illegal and doing nothing about means that you got the finishing position you deserve. Its that simple.

Next time, man-up and formally protest the car you think is illegal. Whining about it on a message board does you no good and actually makes your position worse if you ever decide to file a protest.

I'm not trying to bust your *****, just letting you know how it is from a guy who has been protested and has filed protests.

 

Well, that I honestly can't say. If the car didn't have the illegal mods to squeeze in the wider track with wider tires then I would just be like "damn that s2k was fast and deserved the win".

I agree man, I didn't even think about it at the time when I found out. I was just like "ok cool". The main reason I'm upset is because it's the difference between 1st and 2nd, ya know. And it's happened to me twice, lol.

I'm good friends with Kevin, Redline's tech inspector. I will make sure he looks at every street rwd class car with a fine tooth comb come September's event.

 

Yeah, that sucks, 1st loser twice. j/k

 

Here's a general outline on how to do a protest:

1. Get your facts together before the event. Have the sanctioning body's current rule book in hand along with the appropriate protest forms (if available). Make sure you have money or room on a credit card to post a tear down bond if needed.

2. Read the rules regarding the protest procedures very carefully. There are always timelines and steps to follow. When you get to the event find the appropriate work chiefs and the tech guys and introduce yourself. Don't let them know your concerns just yet.

3. At the event, as early as possible (preferrably before anyone has set a wheel on the track), approach the owner and driver of the car your'e concerned about, introduce yourself, and explain what your concerns are in a polite and professional manner. Don't accuse anyone of anything and assume its all a misunderstanding or ignorance of the rules. 90% of the time that's true.

4. Ask the owner and driver to correct the problem. Thank them for their time.

5. Talk with the other competitors in the class and explain what you just did in a polite and professional manner. Again, assume its a misunderstanding or ignorance of the rules.

6. Watch the competitor you're concerned about. Don't worry too much if they run the first practice in illegal trim. If they run a timed or qualifying session illegally, then its time to get the protest ball rolling.

7. With rule book in hand, go meet with the first person in the protest chain of command and state your concerns. Be polite and professional. Explain your earlier meeting with the competitor and how you informaed the rest of the competitors in the run group. Ask the official what the formal process is regarding protests but also ask him if there is an informal process that gets used more frequently.

8. You decide which path to take (formal or informal) but fill out all the appropriate paper work for the formal process and file it with the proper officals at the correct times just in case the informal process breaks down.

9. Be polite and professional the whole time and accept the judgement of the techs and the protest committees. If you win, be humble and quiet. If you lose, be humble and quiet. Try to stay on speaking terms with the protestee and keep the discussion about the rules, not anything personal.

 

I think John hit all the high points on how to do a protest right. The only thing I'd add is to be prepared to LOSE your protest money (and teardown bond) if the official verdict goes against you! Study the rulebook CAREFULLY and be sure you're standing on solid ground before submitting any protest. Keep in mind that for most grassroots racing competitions, it's the competitors themselves who know their cars and have to police their own classes...

David Muramoto
Senior Editor
Nissan Sport Magazine

 

Luckily this is all Redline Time Attack that I'm dealing with, if theres a violation in street class it'll be something obvious like suspension or bodywork. Thanks for the advice everyone.

 

while i agree w/ u 100%, that if its not in the right class, u technically won. however do u really think that if the s2k's fenders were oe (10 lbs more, etc.) u wouldve beat it?

 

That is irrelevant. It could be illegal shaggy pink dices hanging from the mirror that a protest to get first place would be worth it.

Using the rules to your advantage is part of racing too ! If the S2k guys are so dumb as to put illegal bits that don't give them an advantage and get caught using it, it's their problem! hehe

 

i think he's more worried about the owner running wider tires due to the wider fenders.

 

exactly

 

One of the best things to keep in mind when racing under set of rules is: Pick your battles.

A protest generates bad feelings all around; the losers, the officials, and even the winners of the protest never walk away feeling "good." If the winner of the class wins by .005 of a second or by 3" at the finish, then a protest about illegal fenders and/or wider tires has some merit. On the other hand, if you lost by 15 seconds or were 1/2 a lap behind at the finish, then you were beat and protesting after the fact will just give you a bad reputation. You may be 100% in the right but you'll be known as a guy who can't win on the track, only in the tech shed. Its unfair, but that's how it works in the racing world.