more Camber for BSP 350Z...what to do??
09-24-2007, 03:32 PM
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more Camber for BSP 350Z...what to do??
I run BSP in SCCA, so I'm limited in what I can do to get more negative camber...from what I can tell, rear camber rods and front A-arms are illegal
- any ideas of how to dial in more camber legally?
thanks!
- any ideas of how to dial in more camber legally?thanks!
09-25-2007, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by betamotorsports
Go low as Hippie's example above shows. For a Street Prepared car, 2" of total bump travel (at static ride height measured at the wheel) is enough IF you increase spring rate by about 50% and have a set of good adjustable shocks.
I have never met these guys but I swear when it comes race prep time, my car is being sent there!!!
09-25-2007, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by hippie
Offset bushings in the upper a-arms are worth about 3/4 deg. At my current ride heights I have -2.5LF and -2.75RF camber. 1/4" lower gets me 2.75 and 3
mike
mike
09-25-2007, 09:11 AM
#6
If you can't find any aftermarket offset bushings, send me the OEM upper control arm you took off your car and I can make some offest bushings out of Delrin or Hydlar. I planned to do this for my own 350Z but I can't afford to tie up the lift while the front suspension on my car is apart.
09-25-2007, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by betamotorsports
If you can't find any aftermarket offset bushings, send me the OEM upper control arm you took off your car and I can make some offest bushings out of Delrin or Hydlar. I planned to do this for my own 350Z but I can't afford to tie up the lift while the front suspension on my car is apart.
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09-25-2007, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by daveh
Wow, you're the man! Our 2008 rules should be released in a couple of months. If I need to got that route, I will look you up! I've been fighting to get the control arm penalty removed from our rules because camber plates are allowed in other cars. If they can adjust camber for free, us wishbone suspension guys shouldn't be penalized for wanting free camber as well.
I'm in the same boat - next season, my friend will be competing w/ his STI...he's already got close to -3 degrees of camber! (I'm gonna need an extreme alignment to keep up with him
)
09-25-2007, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by daveh
I've been fighting to get the control arm penalty removed from our rules because camber plates are allowed in other cars. If they can adjust camber for free, us wishbone suspension guys shouldn't be penalized for wanting free camber as well.
I argue about that all the time but all I hear is better camber curves with wishbone suspension bla bla blahhhhhhh...
09-25-2007, 04:08 PM
#10
I never found any bushings, so I made my own. A stick of delrin and a few hours in front of a lathe and mill....
John, I have spare upper arms if you want to borrow one to make some sets of bushings.
As for your comment on ride ht....I have around 1.75in of bump travel before the balljoint hits the inner fender. One interesting thing is that even with 800lb front springs I still rely on the bumpstops to control big suspension movements.
mike
John, I have spare upper arms if you want to borrow one to make some sets of bushings.
As for your comment on ride ht....I have around 1.75in of bump travel before the balljoint hits the inner fender. One interesting thing is that even with 800lb front springs I still rely on the bumpstops to control big suspension movements.
mike
09-26-2007, 08:24 AM
#12
Mike,
Go ahead and ship the a-arms to me at the shop address. Send it ground shipping by whatever carrier is easiest for you. Let me know how much the shipping is and I'll PayPal you the money.
I was also thinking about using a smaller diameter mounting bolt to give a little more adjustment and caling it a "camber bolt." Did you use the stock bolts with your bushing?
Go ahead and ship the a-arms to me at the shop address. Send it ground shipping by whatever carrier is easiest for you. Let me know how much the shipping is and I'll PayPal you the money.
I was also thinking about using a smaller diameter mounting bolt to give a little more adjustment and caling it a "camber bolt." Did you use the stock bolts with your bushing?
09-26-2007, 08:41 AM
#13
Do you want 2 or just 1?
I used a the stock bolts with a .675OD/ .400 ID steel sleeve in the delrin bushing. The sleeve is the actual pivot, it's .010 longer than the bushing. A smaller bolt could work as the pivot if you replaced the factory nuts and used a shoulder bolt or locking nut.
mike
I used a the stock bolts with a .675OD/ .400 ID steel sleeve in the delrin bushing. The sleeve is the actual pivot, it's .010 longer than the bushing. A smaller bolt could work as the pivot if you replaced the factory nuts and used a shoulder bolt or locking nut.
mike
09-26-2007, 09:19 AM
#15
I'll ship them within the next couple days.
CURIOUS.....I'm sure a smooth shoulder bolt won't hurt the bushing, but what's to keep from putting too much drag/end load on the bushings when the bolts are tightened? I sleeved the bushings so that when the bolt was tightened there wasn't too much drag/end load on the bushings (they pivot freely).... w/o the sleeve how do you keep from doing that? Are the Hydlar bushings like a poly or rubber bushing?
mike
CURIOUS.....I'm sure a smooth shoulder bolt won't hurt the bushing, but what's to keep from putting too much drag/end load on the bushings when the bolts are tightened? I sleeved the bushings so that when the bolt was tightened there wasn't too much drag/end load on the bushings (they pivot freely).... w/o the sleeve how do you keep from doing that? Are the Hydlar bushings like a poly or rubber bushing?
mike
09-26-2007, 09:31 AM
#16
Hydlar ZM is a Nylon/Kevlar/Molybdenum Disulphide composite. Its sometimes mistakenly called Nylon 6/6. Tensile strength is 17.3ksi, compressive strength is 19.3ksi, and surface hardness is Rockwell M85.
What I've done in the past is make a washer out of this material so the bushing ends (or sides) rubs against the same material. With the Moly in the composite its self lubricating. And this stuff is expensive, about $30 per foot for a 1" OD bar.
What I've done in the past is make a washer out of this material so the bushing ends (or sides) rubs against the same material. With the Moly in the composite its self lubricating. And this stuff is expensive, about $30 per foot for a 1" OD bar.
09-26-2007, 09:45 AM
#17
Copy....now it makes sense. I'll send those arms and post a couple pics of my bushings in the next few days.
Not to hi-jack, but what do you think on front springs? Are you still using the stock front bumpstops? I need to rate the stock ones for comparison sake. Right now I'm on 800 F 450R
mike
Not to hi-jack, but what do you think on front springs? Are you still using the stock front bumpstops? I need to rate the stock ones for comparison sake. Right now I'm on 800 F 450R
mike
09-26-2007, 09:59 AM
#18
I'm still running the stock springs, unfortunately, and using the Nissan Comp adjustable ARBs to tune balance. Right now I'm running the Nismo R-Tune LSD at 100% lock so I will run a more balanced spring setup when I buy a set(Nissan Comp springs are 690 F&R). If I ever buy a Quaife I'll run a more front biased setup like yours.
Doing the math (assuming its a 3,200 lb car) it looks like 925F and 575R would be a nice setup for a Quaife equipped car (61% front bias on total rate) especially with the size tires you're running.
Doing the math (assuming its a 3,200 lb car) it looks like 925F and 575R would be a nice setup for a Quaife equipped car (61% front bias on total rate) especially with the size tires you're running.
09-26-2007, 10:22 AM
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Curious why you would change spring rates based off of LSD type. I certainly noticed balance changes when I rebuilt my nismo LSD to different lockup specs. I'm on my 3rd set of springs right now and I think I've landed on my final rates. I may remove my rear evo bar for the stock bar to bring back some rear end grip though. Interestingly enough, the bar change would bring me closer to your 61% rate you mentioned.
09-26-2007, 11:06 AM
#20
Curious why you would change spring rates based off of LSD type.
A Quaife is very different animal. The car rotates a lot easier with a Quaife and its really important to keep the inside rear wheel from lifting. Softer rear springs help put power down with thi diff.