So I've been using my factory base model brakes and HP+ pads at Shenendoah and VIR and it FEELS like this combo isn't quite up to the abuse of repeated heavy braking. After a few laps the pedal will get more than a little mushy and I've felt like I had almost no braking power a couple times. I slow down and take it easy for a bit and everything goes back to normal.

Question 1: When the pedal gets mushy, is that the pads being really hot, or is that the fluid boiling?

Question 2: Should I just push the pedal harder when it feels like the brakes are about to give up or should I just pinch penny's and upgrade my brakes?

One of my friends that I go to the track with says the mushy pedal is just the pads getting really hot. I'm saying that the brakes just aren't up to this abuse.

I'm also surprised that Hawk doesn't make Blues (rear only for some reason) or HT-10's for any factory Z brake system.

Any recommendations for better pads? If necessary at all.

Thanks for the input.

 

1.Overheating fluid-get ate super blue

2.see 1

 

best kit imo
http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=2240

 

Already have ATE Superblue in the system. Check.


I am planning on upgrading to SS lines, but I've been told that drilled/slotted rotors are a lot more prone to cracking than blank rotors so I've avoided that potential problem.

 

step one is the better RBF. ATE is good. So is Motul 600.
step two is braided stainless brake lines.

The car is heavy. It is unlikely that when you are driving it closer to its limits that it will sustain more than a few laps with stock brakes even with the above two very basic and cost effective mods, and you will need to switch to bigger rotors and calipers, which is serious money. If you go that route, probably 80% of the benefit of going BBK is attained through doing the front brakes only. Unless you are a real track junkie and going at it hard and fast and at least a half dozen track days a year, the front only BBK should be satisfactory.

 

Beau... the short answer to your question is: it's the fluid. At the same time, even good fluid can go mushy. This happens when the pads you have can't take the heat range (HP+ on a 350Z) and they get too hot, transfering that heat to the fluid. You may very well be over-using them anyway (not hard to do in a 350Z). Also, the non-brembo brakes aren't as good of a heat sink as the larger (more surface area) Brembos.

My guess is, when you feel the pedal getting mushy, you start not using them as hard, but for longer periods of time, which in fact, only makes it worse.

Does the soft pedal happen even after a fresh fluid change?

 

<--- uses HP Plus pads on all four corners, stock rotors, calipers and lines.

On a long fast track I don't notice them getting to mushy until the end of the session. A few weeks back I ran Rockingham and after about 5 laps noticed the pedal getting mushier by the second.

What temp fluid are you running?

Get a slotted rotor, they won't crack anything like the drilled rotors. Slotted will allow cooling much better then your stock blank rotors.

SS lines will likely help initial feel, but personally I don't feel they will help with a hot brake mushy feel.

ultimately... suck it up and buy a BBK. Wilwood offers a 4 pot front kit for around 900 bucks i think. Hard to beat that price for a decent kit. Of course there are better brakes out there if you chose.

 

not a huge fan of supeblue (or ATE Typ-200) vs RBF600 - the Motul might need replacement more often and cost more but seems to last longer ON the track - it might not be an idea "street" fluid" since it will be more hydroscopic but I don't drive my car on the street, and besides, fluid doesn't stay in my car for more than a week these days

 

Anyone having problems with Motul, or any other HP brake fluid absorbing moisture to cause any noticeable drop in performance on the street is either doing it wrong, or there is something wrong with their system.

I've been using Motul and/or AP550 in my DUAL purpose, daily-driven, non-garage-kept-in cars since 2000... all the while living here in NC which is quickly gaining ground on the rest of the southeast in terms of humidity (this year's drought notwithstanding) and I have never had a problem in any of my cars with poor braking performance, on the track or on the street. And that's usually with only one or two fluid changes a year.

Your results may vary, but they shouldn't.

 

When I've used all of the ATE fluid that I have I'll try the Motul 600.


Do you guys think the factory Brembo's would be a suitable upgrade or should I just go all out and get a BBK?

I'm afraid I'm becoming a track junkie, so the BBK may be my best choice. I've been to Shenendoah once this year, VIR once, and I'm going to Shenendoah again in 3 weeks. I will likely do more events next year. This is very addicting. It's all I think about for a week or so after an event.

Thanks.

 

The Brembos, in my opinon, would be a suitable upgrade, and probably fine for a couple years if you can get them cheap. I doubt you can get a new set cheap though. If you already feel it, and if you can't get the Brembos cheaply, then I'll go against my usual stance and say yes, go for the BBK... but not SO big that you're forced to run 18" or 19" rims. They will certainly be a huge improvement over the base model brakes. Since you're in Charlotte, any brake upgrade will be beneficial if you start running down at Carolina Motorsports Park.

 

Good idea, but not a great kit, IMO. I've used the Hawk HPS, and to say that I was disapointed with them is an understatement.
Also, I'll never again run drilled rotors.

OP: you should read the track pad database in the motorsports section.

 

Thanks. Looks like I'm going to start pinching pennies and saving for some sort of BBK whether it's factory Brembos or other.

I'm guessing 332mm is the largest that will fit under factory 17 inch base wheels?

 

IMHO, HP+ is not suitable for track usage, unless you are just starting out, and running in beginner/novice groups. Even then, its not that great of a pad. I cooked them on the street, back when I had stock brakes, and motul fluid.

I've had a couple of track customers run OEM brakes, with the Stop Tech Stage II upgrade, and better pads...seems to be a very good compromise.

At a minimum, get a track specific pad, stainless steel lines, and some good fluid.

 

I'm using the factory Brembos - and while at first I was waaaaay overcooking the pads / fluid, much of that was n00b over-braking. I've now got 11 DEs under my belt (I run with PCA's White run-group) and my only complaint is pad life and knockback (only after the Esses at the Glen thus far, but that's on street tires) - two things that can be attributed more to the Z's weight than brake design / specs. PS - I strongly agree with getting lines, better rotors (I like the 2pc stoptechs, good value when you consider you can replace the friction surfaces) and real pads - they are easy as heck to swap on the brembos (not sure on non, can't be THAT bad).

def. a big fan of the Motul:



I've taken to buying it by the case at this point

 

Just as an FYI, you may be able to find a cheaper Brembo option by looking in the salvage yards for a '03-04 G35 instead of a equipted 350Z.

I can also sya that the Stoptech system seems pretty good. I experienced them in driving EricH's car and they felt really good.

 

good luck, been looking for quite a while myself.

 

do not upgrade just the fronts and not rears. you will end up with a car that will have more brake bias in the front. the rears are so small that they heat soak very easily. if you are driving at a very fast pace, you might lock up the rears and send yourself flying. either do 4 or don't do it. plus it sucks to replace pads every 2.5 days.


I used a set of xp10. they are super aggressive, yet I still have to back off my brakes after two hot laps just so I don't kill it. getting the castro srf will help, but they are pricey. from my experiencr, wilwood 600 is the second best compare to srf.

I have my track pads for sale if you are interested in it. I sold my car last month. I did 2.17 on just the pads and 235 40 17 ra1 at vir full.

Do your rotor a favor, stay away from the HP+. They were absolute killer on my rotor. I got more miles on 3 different sets of Carbotech than one day on HP+