Warranty smack-down as a result of Autocrossing
01-17-2008, 05:36 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Z1NONLY
Many here sound as though going fast is "abuse." I can see how r-comp's might cause more stress on suspension components, or how FI could put engine internals under more pressure etc...
But I don't think hard driving is abuse just because you are driving the car on a "track."
A "track" is just a place sane people go to drive their cars as fast as they can without endangering the general public. The Z is designed far beyond the limits of "street use".
Does 159 (indicated) MPH sound like "street use only"?
I'm sure stock brakes wouldn't last more than a few laps before overheating, warping the rotors etc. But brakes and rotors are wear items anyway, just like tires. Some people get 30K+ out of stock tires, some get less than 15K. Wear items wear quicker under hard use and as such aren't covered under warranty anyway.
The clutch is another example. If you go to the drag strip on a regular basis you can expect your clutch to need replacement a lot sooner than if you drove like "miss Daisy." But the clutch is a wear item and isn't covered by warranty anyway.
If the Z is sold in Germany, what's to stop an owner from getting on an unrestricted section of the autobahn and bouncing off the rev limiter at an indicated 159 all the way down the road? Nothing.
If the motor blows at 159 on the autobahn or a "track," it's still operating within its specs. (Otherwise the rev limiter would have been set lower)
Yes, driving hard will make things wear out quicker, but Nissan thinks the drive train will make it to 60K. Of course if you don't drive it hard, you might get 200K out of the drive train. But Nissan isn't going to warranty it that long because they know that some people will be harder on the car than others.
In my book, "abuse" is forcing the car beyond its limits. Removing the rev limiter and revving to 9K would be a good example. (Or downshifting into too-low a gear and forcing the motor to rev past the rev limiter.) And if someone breaks an end link while cornering at 1.5G's on 295 race rubber at all four corners, too bad for them. When my stock struts go, I will not expect Nissan to replace them, because I lowered my car and put slightly-higher-than-stock forces on the suspension with my large street tires.
Rowing through the gears, keeping the revs in the power band, braking hard and late, while matching revs and downshifting, hitting your apex, and repeating, is not (in and of itself) abuse in my book.
Doing it on a track means the driver is considerate of the general public, but it does not mean that he is "abusing" his car. At least, not in my humble opinion.
But I don't think hard driving is abuse just because you are driving the car on a "track."
A "track" is just a place sane people go to drive their cars as fast as they can without endangering the general public. The Z is designed far beyond the limits of "street use".
Does 159 (indicated) MPH sound like "street use only"?
I'm sure stock brakes wouldn't last more than a few laps before overheating, warping the rotors etc. But brakes and rotors are wear items anyway, just like tires. Some people get 30K+ out of stock tires, some get less than 15K. Wear items wear quicker under hard use and as such aren't covered under warranty anyway.
The clutch is another example. If you go to the drag strip on a regular basis you can expect your clutch to need replacement a lot sooner than if you drove like "miss Daisy." But the clutch is a wear item and isn't covered by warranty anyway.
If the Z is sold in Germany, what's to stop an owner from getting on an unrestricted section of the autobahn and bouncing off the rev limiter at an indicated 159 all the way down the road? Nothing.
If the motor blows at 159 on the autobahn or a "track," it's still operating within its specs. (Otherwise the rev limiter would have been set lower)
Yes, driving hard will make things wear out quicker, but Nissan thinks the drive train will make it to 60K. Of course if you don't drive it hard, you might get 200K out of the drive train. But Nissan isn't going to warranty it that long because they know that some people will be harder on the car than others.
In my book, "abuse" is forcing the car beyond its limits. Removing the rev limiter and revving to 9K would be a good example. (Or downshifting into too-low a gear and forcing the motor to rev past the rev limiter.) And if someone breaks an end link while cornering at 1.5G's on 295 race rubber at all four corners, too bad for them. When my stock struts go, I will not expect Nissan to replace them, because I lowered my car and put slightly-higher-than-stock forces on the suspension with my large street tires.
Rowing through the gears, keeping the revs in the power band, braking hard and late, while matching revs and downshifting, hitting your apex, and repeating, is not (in and of itself) abuse in my book.
Doing it on a track means the driver is considerate of the general public, but it does not mean that he is "abusing" his car. At least, not in my humble opinion.
01-18-2008, 04:52 AM
#44
In truth, Track use puts stress on the entire vehicle, not just the wear components. High load turns and stops puts continual stress on chassis connectors, engine mounts, and many other stress bearing parts. This isn't to say that these parts can not accept these types of loads, but it does accelerate wear of such items so they will fail or need replacing before the predicted time by the manufacturer. Most manufacturers build in fudge factors, but if your wheel bearings or transmission syncros die before they should and you have had several track events on them, then don't be surprised if your claim is denied.
Street use, even spirited use is not as continuous or as extreme as pure track use, and the use of top speed isn’t really as abusive on the vehicle as the hard braking, hard acceleration, high g turns, and sudden and constant transitions. The spirited driving will still increase the wear on the vehicle, but I would think that would still be with in the expected range of driving conditions from the engineers.
If you talk to many of the sponsored drivers hear, they consider more items as wear items than your standard driver. I personally "Nut and Bolt" my can once a year because the extreme use will cause such items as break line connectors, strut mounts, etc to back out and fail.
I do not believe though if the manufacturer is promoting such use for a vehicle that such claims should be denied. By saying such use is recommeneded, then that should factor in the manufacturers warranty clauses. I was really upset with Subaru when they offered free SCCA memberships, then canceled the warranties when people actually used it. I applaud Mazda for their grassroots motorsports support.
Street use, even spirited use is not as continuous or as extreme as pure track use, and the use of top speed isn’t really as abusive on the vehicle as the hard braking, hard acceleration, high g turns, and sudden and constant transitions. The spirited driving will still increase the wear on the vehicle, but I would think that would still be with in the expected range of driving conditions from the engineers.
If you talk to many of the sponsored drivers hear, they consider more items as wear items than your standard driver. I personally "Nut and Bolt" my can once a year because the extreme use will cause such items as break line connectors, strut mounts, etc to back out and fail.
I do not believe though if the manufacturer is promoting such use for a vehicle that such claims should be denied. By saying such use is recommeneded, then that should factor in the manufacturers warranty clauses. I was really upset with Subaru when they offered free SCCA memberships, then canceled the warranties when people actually used it. I applaud Mazda for their grassroots motorsports support.
Last edited by mhoward1; 01-18-2008 at 04:54 AM.
01-20-2008, 06:56 AM
#46
Originally Posted by AndreZ Cadena
thats bull ****, why would they sell a car designed for motorsports and not cover it if its being used for what it was designed to?
To the "bean counters," it's all about the bottom line numbers, and warranty repairs cut into that bottom line. Yet having happy customers is what drives additional sales -- both from the initial customer and from people that they talk to.
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