What's the difference? Has anyone attended both? Do PDX's have levels for beginners and more experienced drivers?

 

heres some crap they tell the people about to do PDX events at Nashville.

"Instructors: For this event, all new participants and those not signed off by their previous instructors will be required to have an instructor
ride along with them. Drivers that have been previously signed off can request that an instructor ride along if they wish. All the instructors
HAVE been around the track one or more times. Pay attention to what your instructor has to say as if your future sign-off is riding on it
(because it is).
6. Rules of the Road:
• This is NOT a competition event or a racing school.
• Racing and overly aggressive driving will NOT be tolerated.
• Timing of student cars is not permitted. This is not a race experience. Insurance companies routinely decline claims for “timed events.”
• Passing is only allowed in designated areas and shall only occur after a clear signal is given. The passing zones will be discussed further in
the Driver’s meeting, but they are on the back straight from the exit of Turn 2 to the end of the straight at Turn 3. Also, the front straight,
before Turn Alfa.
• When slowing to enter pit road, the driver shall signal by raising her/his arm out the window with clenched fist and pull over to the left
side of the track. Following cars not exiting the track may pass an exiting car very carefully on the right.
• Two tires off the track surface, spins and/or overly aggressive driving will result in a black flag. A second offense by the same driver will
result in the entire session being black flagged and we’ll tell your fellow participants why their session was shortened. Contrary to what
you may observe during racing, the rippled concrete strips are NOT considered part of the track surface for this PDX."

the above rules, as well as the limited number of Time Trial events are the reasons I'm moving on to NASA for my open track stuff. To have any real high speed fun in SCCA you have to be doing club racing, which costs a little bit too much for me (cage & the like).

 

All of those rules are for your safety and the others around you. You will find most of those in all HPDE events, including NASA.

Having an instructor for is great, even for experienced drivers. For someone who is begining they will help with techniques, and keep the concentration of the driver on what's important, mostly how to get smoother and faster while still staying safe. For more experienced driver they act more as a coach, and may just poit out little things you may have missed because of everything else going on. Pit Signals, passing signals, etc are good practice to use, even in W2W racing.

HPDE's are about learning car control, situations, and track lines and techniques.

Also as an FYI there are many other orginizations and clubs that offer HPDE and TT events for qualified drivers.

 

i've done both....

i had more fun at the SCCA only because it was more of a "family" atmostphere. But both groups, as well as many others (thscc, PCA, scmc, bmw, audi...etc etc) typically will start you with an instructor until you can SAFELY and effectively make your way around the track. Some people get signed off to drive solo in a couple sessions with an instructor, some may take a few events. Most clubs will also put you in a run group that is most fitting for your driving experiance. Rookies in green group, intermediate in yellow... and so on.

But Marty is right, check out your local track schedules and see what clubs are holding events. There are a TONS of clubs!!!

 

Thanks for the responses. I've already done two HPDE's and do not require an instructor anymore. I am looking to move up to time trials as well. I haven't done a PDX yet but I was on a crew in SCCA club racing for a few years. I think I like NASA and how it is set up a bit better, but I will try a PDX later this summer as well.

 

its likely if you run with another group, you WILL be required an instructor with that group until they sign you off. If your signed off with SCCA at a PDX, but want to run with the THSCC, you will be assigned an instructor. Its not that they don't believe what your telling them about being signed off, they just want proof that your not an idiot on track basically.

 

Wow, that's pretty rough to do to someone. You'd think your in the military with that kind of reaction. I'll agree NASA is 10x better than SCCA.



mpowers
x-scca solo chair
nasa racer

 

its not uncommon if you spin or go 4 off to be blacked flagged. i know some run groups will give ya the boot if you spin a certain number of times over the weekend. But i have never seen the entire group black flagged for someone else's screw up.

 

Frankly, I would only do NASA HPDE if you want to eventually move to TT and W2W...

Why, you don''t get as much of track time in NASA HPDE, as compared to PCA/Chin/other HPDE ONLY events.....

In NASA, the racing comes 1st....as it should, and HPDE is secondary. Plz don't think I am bashing NASA, I am NOT! But a beginner will get more track time in a HPDE Only event..

There here are only so many hours in a day for cars to run. If you have 300 total cars at a NASA event, with many classes running,,you are time limited. If you are running a HPDE -only event with 3-5 classes and 100 cars, you normally get more track time. Plus, the racers often crash/blow up cause delays and that hurts everybody.

 

You migth want to consider CHIN. We run at Mid-Ohio. I love CHIN.

CHIN

 

on my to do list this year- run mid-ohio!!!

 

Just as an FYI, I have been doing this stuff for quite a while now (about 15 years), and I still like to have someone in the car every once in a while. If I am new to a track, or I just feel I am not getting the most out of a session it's good to have another set of eyes, ears, etc to see what is going on. Having an instructor or coach doesn't mean you aren't a good driver, it's just another tool to use to get better. Heck, even when the pros come out and play (Archer Brothers, Bush Brothers, Gaelstrom, Donahue, etc) they bring there driving coaches with them. It's just like any other amature and professional sport.

 

In my short time with the SCCA, I have come to realize that all of the rules for racing have a past reason for their existence. Someone or something has caused a problem and the rule was put in place to protect either people or the club. SCCA has more rules because it's been around longer than NASA.

BTW, the Tenn. Valley and Chattanooga Regions are co-sponsoring a Double SARRC club race weekend at Nashville Super Speedway, June 14/15. This entails road racing on Saturday, an 3 hr. Enduro Saturday evening under the lights and road racing on Sunday. Sunday morning is a PDX and workers for the event get discounted up to full price based on the number of events worked that weekend. Contact me if you are interested in working or driving the PDX. All help is appreciated and you will have fun also.

 

I've never seen the "punish the whole group" rule at any SCCA, NASA, TCRA, Speedventures, or Speedtrials event. I don't think this is part of the SCCA PDX rule package which means it might have been added by a local Napoleon masquerading as a SCCA official. And to count the FIA curbing as off track? Bizzarre...

 

2 whole events and you "don't require an instructor" eh?

 

I was actually going to sign up for this before I realized I'm going to be in Vegas that week/weekend :[ I'm missing quite a few potential events because of my little trip out west....kinda bummed out. Thanks tho!

thats what I was sayin beta...use a bumpstrip and ya get black flagged? maybe they'll allow cops on the infield to enforce a new 55 mph speed limit next

 

Each group has their good points to them.

Groups like Tarheel Sports Car Club, Seat Time and Chin offer a great amount of track time. Atmostphere is usually a bit more laid back, great instructors and a good place to test the water. Also these groups are great for folks who have no desire to w2w or tt. btw all of these groups NASA will honor with a check ride and confirmation from the groups, <They did this for me> if you change your mind later.

NASA is for the folks wanting to go to the next level. Their hpde programs are stair cased upon ability, comfort level or how much risk one is willing to take. One really nice feature about the hpde's is you can run some of the world class for less money than the smaller groups. Great instruction as well.

Their TT programs are some of the best with contengency monies and track time.

The w2w is fantastic with plenty of class selctions for cars of all types. Also the w2w is a hell of a lot more friendly than SCCA and the folks particiapting imho are a lot more grassroots than SCCA.

SCCA, I let some one else fill this in as I am prejudice. btw SCCA now accepts NASA racing license.



mpowers
Doesn't matter who you chose, just jump in and join the fun! Figure the rest out after you have done one or two.

 

Prior to April I had never been on a road course or done any racing whatsoever... take it easy!

 

What he is saying is that you probably could still use the help from an instructor, contrary to what you might think.

 

I know that event managers will add rules and must enforce them if the track management is on their case about problem areas of their track. Like I said, there is always a reason for a rule whether you feel it's valid or not.

That said, I would like to see more Level 1 and 2 Time Trial events for SCCA. Level 1 is the PDX. I'm really interested in Level 2 which is a competitive event with PDX preparation but the only track I know they are held at by the SCCA, SE Division is in Gainesville, FL once a year.

I might be at the autocross this weekend in Nashville. Say hi if you go.