Anybody with autocross experience?
09-24-2003, 01:30 PM
#21
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Originally posted by Mrsideways
Sorry for the long post, I should be studying Calculus right now.
Sorry for the long post, I should be studying Calculus right now.
-D'oh!
PS. Here are my thoughts on my race tires: https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....024#post454024
It definitely helps you learn where you stand since most of the really high level drivers are running race tires.
-D!
Last edited by D'oh; 09-24-2003 at 01:36 PM.
09-24-2003, 05:18 PM
#22
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Hi Ian and all,
Congrats on the Nats, great showing. Good to see the CFR folks doing well. I hope to make it there some year.
I was wondering were you were this past weekend at FSF.
Sorry to hear about the mishap.
I also had a mishap in my Z, out for two months already. Hope to make the Gainsville event.
Thanks for your input here.
Since I added springs, wing and SS brake lines. I'm in BSP.
Would it better to go with 17" or stay with 18"?
I see the Victoracer don't come in 18". Is the V700 close enough to run as well as the VR?
Money aside, isn't 18" better because of less sidewall flex?
Thanks!
Jeff
Super Black Touring
Congrats on the Nats, great showing. Good to see the CFR folks doing well. I hope to make it there some year.
I was wondering were you were this past weekend at FSF.
Sorry to hear about the mishap.
I also had a mishap in my Z, out for two months already. Hope to make the Gainsville event.
Thanks for your input here.
Since I added springs, wing and SS brake lines. I'm in BSP.
Would it better to go with 17" or stay with 18"?
I see the Victoracer don't come in 18". Is the V700 close enough to run as well as the VR?
Money aside, isn't 18" better because of less sidewall flex?
Thanks!
Jeff
Super Black Touring
09-24-2003, 07:35 PM
#23
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Yeah, this weekend was a Bummer. I did a whole lota NOTHIN. It's been sooo long since i've been here on a weekend I actually had no idea what to do. I think I spent alot of time drinking.
Jesse tried to get me to go to Tampa and I looked at My credit cards after Nationals and decided aginst the $60 in gas plus entry fee. Might have gotten to drive neals STi again. That would have been cool. Shoulda gone.
My theory isn't so much sidewall flex as Gearing and width. Several guys have tried the Shorter Sidewall theory on the S2000 running the 215/40 hoosiers and decided aginst it. In Street Prepared you can go as Wide as you wish. So think of it like this. What is the widest tire you can purchase. Now think of how you can get it under the fenders. Going with 18's not only means more rotational mass but a taller wheel which would then equal less gap to the fender meaning your restricting yourself on width. Notice all the CSP guys go to 13 inch wheels so they can fit a 8 inch wide wheel under the fenders, as well as the gearing advantage. IMHO the only reason to go larger is for a bigger variety in tire sizes. Once you get to 17 inch you've got all the variety you could ever want. So IMHO no reason to go taller.
Next question is... How wide can you go. If you can get your hands on some 17x11's then for sure run a set of Kumho Victoracer 315/35 17's on there. Now I'm unfamliar with the Z's fenders So I can't say weither that would fit. But if I were in you shoes... I'd find a way. Of note the 315/35's are the same overall diameter as the 275/40's, The only question is the width.
Jesse tried to get me to go to Tampa and I looked at My credit cards after Nationals and decided aginst the $60 in gas plus entry fee. Might have gotten to drive neals STi again. That would have been cool. Shoulda gone.
My theory isn't so much sidewall flex as Gearing and width. Several guys have tried the Shorter Sidewall theory on the S2000 running the 215/40 hoosiers and decided aginst it. In Street Prepared you can go as Wide as you wish. So think of it like this. What is the widest tire you can purchase. Now think of how you can get it under the fenders. Going with 18's not only means more rotational mass but a taller wheel which would then equal less gap to the fender meaning your restricting yourself on width. Notice all the CSP guys go to 13 inch wheels so they can fit a 8 inch wide wheel under the fenders, as well as the gearing advantage. IMHO the only reason to go larger is for a bigger variety in tire sizes. Once you get to 17 inch you've got all the variety you could ever want. So IMHO no reason to go taller.
Next question is... How wide can you go. If you can get your hands on some 17x11's then for sure run a set of Kumho Victoracer 315/35 17's on there. Now I'm unfamliar with the Z's fenders So I can't say weither that would fit. But if I were in you shoes... I'd find a way. Of note the 315/35's are the same overall diameter as the 275/40's, The only question is the width.
09-24-2003, 08:54 PM
#24
Registered User
My 265/35-18's are 2% smaller diameter than the stock front tires and 5% smaller than the stock rears. There is plenty of room between the tire and wheelwell in front, and quite a bit in back too.
The only thing I'd double check with 17's and a wide wheel is the clearance between the front suspension and the inside of the rim.
I'd definitely run 17's if I wasn't trying to stay stock. There currently isn't much of a selection for 18" race tires.
-D'oh!
The only thing I'd double check with 17's and a wide wheel is the clearance between the front suspension and the inside of the rim.
I'd definitely run 17's if I wasn't trying to stay stock. There currently isn't much of a selection for 18" race tires.
-D'oh!
09-26-2003, 03:15 PM
#25
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Good stuff, I'm just soaking in all this info, thanks guys.
Finding 17" wide enough (light and cheap) is the hard part. I may just go with 17x9 and 17x10. Just need to watch the offsets. Wish Enkei made 17x10's. Any others to look at? I read that Carter is using Kodiak. Gram Lights look great but $$.
Another question, why aren't more people using (or recommending) the newer Ecsta v700 tires? I thought those were latest greatest from Khumo.
Thanks again
- Jeff
Tampa, FL
Finding 17" wide enough (light and cheap) is the hard part. I may just go with 17x9 and 17x10. Just need to watch the offsets. Wish Enkei made 17x10's. Any others to look at? I read that Carter is using Kodiak. Gram Lights look great but $$.
Another question, why aren't more people using (or recommending) the newer Ecsta v700 tires? I thought those were latest greatest from Khumo.
Thanks again
- Jeff
Tampa, FL
09-26-2003, 03:25 PM
#26
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The lastest and greatest tire from kumho is the new Escta V710. It is supposedly out now/soon. The Escta V700's just haven't proven themselves to be any better then the victo racers. And some people say the Escta's aren't as good. It's up for debate. I swear by the Victo's. I love driving on them and they let ya slide around alot more then the escta's. The victo's for my driving style react simlar to new hoosiers. However alot of people would disagree with me on that. I just found when I run on escta's they demand me to be smooth, with the victo's and the hoosiers (atleast when new) I can throw the car around alot more.
09-26-2003, 08:27 PM
#27
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The bad part about the 17's is that sizes jump from 275/40's to 315/35's. I'd like to go with 285/30's in the front so I'm forced to go with 18's. The rears should be able to handle 305/30/18 with no problem, the diameter with the shorter sidewall will be very close to the 17's so nothing is lost in the 18's IMO. All the BSP guys at Nat's were running 18's it seemed like. I think the reason the CSP guys are running 13's is because their cars don't require as wide of tires because they weigh 700lbs less Besides, our Z's don't have caliper clearance for anything much less than 17's, even if they did, there is no option for a tire wide enough to suit our needs. I don't know, maybe I'm way off here, thats just how I see it.
10-01-2003, 04:10 PM
#28
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Originally posted by zoasis
I agree with Ian. I think the only reason people advise against racing on R-compound as a rookie is because of the expense incurred. It won't hurt anything to start on Victoracer's.
I agree with Ian. I think the only reason people advise against racing on R-compound as a rookie is because of the expense incurred. It won't hurt anything to start on Victoracer's.
R-Compounds ARE a bad idea for rookies and it's not just the cost. Race tires are very finicky; they go from gripping to sliding without much warning, that is, if you're lucky enough to have any warning! Also, race tires MUST be PROPERLY heat cycled or else they won't stick worth a damn. I have yet to meet a rookie that can heat cycle a tire correctly on his first attempt. Now, in autocross you can probably slide around a bunch on greasy R-tires and not hurt anybody since you're in a parking lot...but I strongly recommend avoiding these tires if you're going on a race track. Car damage is emminent!
Also Track_350Z, you're logic is reversed on the tire pressures. Lower tire pressure will give you more traction, higher tire pressure will give you less traction as a general rule. I would also NEVER run 40PSI cold in any tire on a track.
At Waterford Hills, I start at 30PSI front and rear, then make changes after the first run depending on the weather. Even at 30PSI cold, I see 38-39PSI after a 25 minute session. This is still too high for my liking, but I'm not too sure about how much heat these RE040s will take.
If you wanted to "cure" understeer, you would air down in the fronts and keep the rears a few PSI higher. Speaking of which, I wouldn't be too much in a hurry to take the understeer out of this car as a rookie. I've had experienced race-veterans tell me that my car understeers less than even an M3...so the Z is actually very close to neutral. As you get some laps under your belt, start adjusting tire pressure and then maybe move to a larger sway bar in the rear. This car seems to transition from understeer to oversteer in quite a hurry (it's almost down-right frightening with a limited slip out back!), so the more warning you give yourself, the more consistent you will be. Again, race tires on a Z are really a BAD idea for a noob!
Finally, unless somebody is cutting you a check to win this race, fast lap times are NOT the answer alone. It is the time differences BETWEEN each lap that will tell you how good you are. Even in professional racing, it's more often the racer who is the most consistent that takes home the big money.
10-01-2003, 07:30 PM
#29
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Originally posted by archman350z
OK, I know I'm waaay late on this post, but I've got to correct a few things in this thread before people get the wrong idea.
R-Compounds ARE a bad idea for rookies and it's not just the cost. Race tires are very finicky; they go from gripping to sliding without much warning, that is, if you're lucky enough to have any warning! Also, race tires MUST be PROPERLY heat cycled or else they won't stick worth a damn. I have yet to meet a rookie that can heat cycle a tire correctly on his first attempt. Now, in autocross you can probably slide around a bunch on greasy R-tires and not hurt anybody since you're in a parking lot...but I strongly recommend avoiding these tires if you're going on a race track. Car damage is emminent!
Also Track_350Z, you're logic is reversed on the tire pressures. Lower tire pressure will give you more traction, higher tire pressure will give you less traction as a general rule. I would also NEVER run 40PSI cold in any tire on a track.
At Waterford Hills, I start at 30PSI front and rear, then make changes after the first run depending on the weather. Even at 30PSI cold, I see 38-39PSI after a 25 minute session. This is still too high for my liking, but I'm not too sure about how much heat these RE040s will take.
If you wanted to "cure" understeer, you would air down in the fronts and keep the rears a few PSI higher. Speaking of which, I wouldn't be too much in a hurry to take the understeer out of this car as a rookie. I've had experienced race-veterans tell me that my car understeers less than even an M3...so the Z is actually very close to neutral. As you get some laps under your belt, start adjusting tire pressure and then maybe move to a larger sway bar in the rear. This car seems to transition from understeer to oversteer in quite a hurry (it's almost down-right frightening with a limited slip out back!), so the more warning you give yourself, the more consistent you will be. Again, race tires on a Z are really a BAD idea for a noob!
Finally, unless somebody is cutting you a check to win this race, fast lap times are NOT the answer alone. It is the time differences BETWEEN each lap that will tell you how good you are. Even in professional racing, it's more often the racer who is the most consistent that takes home the big money.
OK, I know I'm waaay late on this post, but I've got to correct a few things in this thread before people get the wrong idea.
R-Compounds ARE a bad idea for rookies and it's not just the cost. Race tires are very finicky; they go from gripping to sliding without much warning, that is, if you're lucky enough to have any warning! Also, race tires MUST be PROPERLY heat cycled or else they won't stick worth a damn. I have yet to meet a rookie that can heat cycle a tire correctly on his first attempt. Now, in autocross you can probably slide around a bunch on greasy R-tires and not hurt anybody since you're in a parking lot...but I strongly recommend avoiding these tires if you're going on a race track. Car damage is emminent!
Also Track_350Z, you're logic is reversed on the tire pressures. Lower tire pressure will give you more traction, higher tire pressure will give you less traction as a general rule. I would also NEVER run 40PSI cold in any tire on a track.
At Waterford Hills, I start at 30PSI front and rear, then make changes after the first run depending on the weather. Even at 30PSI cold, I see 38-39PSI after a 25 minute session. This is still too high for my liking, but I'm not too sure about how much heat these RE040s will take.
If you wanted to "cure" understeer, you would air down in the fronts and keep the rears a few PSI higher. Speaking of which, I wouldn't be too much in a hurry to take the understeer out of this car as a rookie. I've had experienced race-veterans tell me that my car understeers less than even an M3...so the Z is actually very close to neutral. As you get some laps under your belt, start adjusting tire pressure and then maybe move to a larger sway bar in the rear. This car seems to transition from understeer to oversteer in quite a hurry (it's almost down-right frightening with a limited slip out back!), so the more warning you give yourself, the more consistent you will be. Again, race tires on a Z are really a BAD idea for a noob!
Finally, unless somebody is cutting you a check to win this race, fast lap times are NOT the answer alone. It is the time differences BETWEEN each lap that will tell you how good you are. Even in professional racing, it's more often the racer who is the most consistent that takes home the big money.
10-02-2003, 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by Mrsideways
Hold on here. When I drove Pat Salareno's car at the D.C. tour (track 350z) on 275 Hoosiers he was running well over 50 psi in the front , and something similar in the rear. Granted it's autocross but you also can't call pat a newbie. 6 national Championships including one this year in SuperStock. I think he's got a clue as to what he's doing.
Hold on here. When I drove Pat Salareno's car at the D.C. tour (track 350z) on 275 Hoosiers he was running well over 50 psi in the front , and something similar in the rear. Granted it's autocross but you also can't call pat a newbie. 6 national Championships including one this year in SuperStock. I think he's got a clue as to what he's doing.
Anyway, here is an excellent link on TireRack's website about the Hoosiers. They also now offer a Heat Cycling service for only $15 per tire!!! Considering Hoosiers for a Z are $200+, I think you'd be stupid not to pay the extra money and have them cycled. It sure beats cutting short a race day and waiting a week to use the tires again...
Hoosier Tire Info - Tire Rack
10-02-2003, 03:50 PM
#31
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I know this is a bit off topic but, What is the Offset and bolt pattern on the front wheels for a Z, say the 17 inch. I'm half *** looking into a cheap set of wheels for a track day or 2 that I could squeeze some massive tires under the fenders on. Unfrontaly nothing Cheap and S2000 ever go together. To get 17's in the proper offset I'm going to spend $1000+ just for fronts.
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