solidfish

iTrader: (7)

So last week I had my first autox run on my Z. It was fun, but very painful.

Embarrasingly, I had perhaps one of the worst times on the course. (I felt bad to the other Z drivers there...) There was a woman in a s2000 that beat me by 8+ seconds, and worse, an elderly lady driving a lotus that beat me by 10+ seconds... Average lap times were 80 seconds. My best was 90...

Wife was there but wasn't too encouraging, asking me if perhaps she could try driving our Z at the next event. The competing women were telling her how easy it was, while I'm off on the side struggling...

So my problems:
Knowing the track was my main problem. I had a DNF due to missing a turn on my first run. I had troubles finding the apex of the turns, controlled braking, and how much to accelerate on the straights. I am studying to improve all these areas.

Refusing to believe that my skills were the only problems - I'd also like to visit some of the mechanical issues.

- Brakes. The rotors seem fine but the pads are gone. I'd like to replace the pads with something more durable. But I dont yet have the funds/committment to upgrade into a big brake kit. Any recommendable OEM pads?

- Tires. I'm finding lots of answers for this. I have an extra set of OEM 17s that I'll probably wrap with Kumho MXs or similars.

- Suspension. Do you think upgrading the stock suspension is as important as brakes/tires?

- Gloves. I'm sure I could knock off another second or two if I had racing gloves like everyone else.

I'm curious to hear any suggestions/tips you might have. I'm doing a lot of reading here as well as other sites so its a lot of learning. It was a painful beginning, but it can only get better from here, right?

davidv

iTrader: (2)

No its you.

Sounds just like the beginning of every autocross season for me. Going around cones seems simple until you try it. My brain is ready to explode from so much input. There are times when I am off course on the same damn cone every run!

Like every sport skill comes with practice. It will become natural. There will be days when you are “off” and nothing works. Then there will be days when you are on top of the game and everything is working.

BTW my competition is me not the other drivers. If I am improving I am happy.

NGZ

iTrader: (1)

I'd imagine that it's hard to go fast if you don't know the course. That's probably your biggest factor right now.

DavesZ#3

iTrader: (26)

Seat time is the bottom line. You need practice and lots of it.

You need to walk the course several times and identify each feature and be able to visualize it in your head, not try to memorize the course and every cone on it.

As for the mechanical issues...

Get some good OEM replacement pad. You can get them from Oreilly, Autozone, etc.
A BBK will not do you any good.

Naturally, wide, grippy tires help but at your level of expertise, it's pointless. Learn to drive the stock car to the limit first then start expanding that limit with tires, suspension, etc.

Gloves help in the summer as sweaty hands can't grip the steering wheel very well. It's won't buy you much time but will keep you from making a mistake.

Probably one of the best things you can spend money on is autocross schools. A lot of clubs put on schools or you can visit an Evolution Performance Driving school for some professional instruction.

BPRacer

iTrader: (1)

Dave is absolutely right

AznSky

iTrader: (12)

+10000

Walk the course as much as you can. Memorize it so that when you're driving, you're actually looking ahead of you and not at the turn you're currently trying to make.

Brakes - If your pads are really gone, then just get OEM replacement pads cuz they actually bite really well for autox (I forgot what the price was though, it might be high)

Tires - Definitely get a good street tire, don't move to R-Comps for at least a full season of autox

Suspension - Stock Z suspension is fine for now.

Honestly I wouldn't upgrade anyting for a whole season, replacing, yea sure, but not upgrading.

Also if you get a chance, try to catch a ride with somebody else to see how to drive the course you've just finished. You'll learn a lot there too.

Lastly, I've found watching videos helps too. You can watch mine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFc7T34PWEA

Good luck!

betamotorsports

iTrader: (1)

Sorry bud, the problem is you. The car is fine.

When I first started autocrossing back in the days before rubber tires...

Anyway, I was up against Rita Wilsey who is (was) 60 years old at the time and a national champion in both ladies and open classes. She would regularly beat me by many seconds yet she was very nice and offered to help me by riding passenger on practice days. You learn to shut down your ego and just listen to things like:

"Oh that wasn't so good, I'm sure you can do better."
"Oops! I didn't know a car was supposed to do that!"
"You're getting better, its just going to take a little time."
"There you go. See its not so difficult after all."

It took a couple years but I was able to beat her, once.

I suggest you go find that elderly lady driving the Lotus and ask for her help and advice. The most important thing you will learn is to get rid of your ego and just listen.

DmanG281

iTrader: (3)

+1

#1 rule of autocrossing. Knowing you are the problem.

scotts300

iTrader: (46)

Weren't you at the Marina Airport Autox on Sunday? John?

If so, read below. If not - ignore all this!

Don't fret, man! Not that it matters, but there were FIVE cars that were slower than you out there on Sunday. It was your first time, and that was a TOUGH track to master in only 4 runs. I don't think anyone really had it all pinned down in such a short time. It was also a LONG course, at least relative to our standards. Most of our courses are ~30-40s long when we are in Sunnyvale, but the times for this course ranged from 74.3 to 93.9 (not counting the DNFs). There were only 7 cars (out of 42) that got lower than 80s, so most were in the mid 80s or so. That was actually a guy, and a good driver at that, in the S2k that beat you by 8s. And the woman in the Lotus was a veteran on Hoosiers in a street race car. She had the third fastest time out of everyone!

I doubt I will be able to make the August event, as it conflicts with The Monterey Historics races at Laguna Seca, but definitely come out again, walk the course, get some ride-alongs. I'd be happy to show you around in my 350 the next time we are both there together. Sign up for our google group, as most of the updates are sent through there, and check the website for updates: http://www.lmsportscarclub.org/

You don't need much in the way of special pads for autox. I actually run a mild street pad, the Axxis Ultimate, for street/autox. I do change them for the big track events of course. A dedicated set of autox wheels/tires is quite rewarding, but keep to a street tires (the MX is a great tire for this or the Dunlop Direzza). Zs are very capable - we usually take 2 of the top 5 spots each month (we took 1st and 4th this month with some stiff competition from fully-prepped autox cars).

Z ya out there again! (and hope to see you at a big track event one day soon)
-Scott (Silver 350Z with the funky snorts in the hood)

solidfish

iTrader: (7)

Hey Scott!

Thats right, this John. Which Z were you again? The one riding with Matt (name?) from Z car Garage?

I was being mostly sarcastic in my original post and just venting from my poor performance. Both the ladies were doing awesome, and I just pointed them out because they look so friendly and calm in person and then out on the track they rip it up. Of course I know its due to my lack of experience, even though I was born perfect.

I plan to be at August's event. I might need to get tires though. It was only 4 laps but I think I ate up a good chunk of thread and like I mentioned above, my brakes are squeaking like crazy this week. I just hope to complete the next event without driving off the course again...

All in all, the event was a lot of fun and I wish I couldve stayed longer for more runs. I'm interested in running official tracks (talking to you on the other thread) eventually.

Thanks for the tips on tires and brakes. Looks like I have to get those replaced soon anyways so I'll shop for the suggested brands.

thanks all

scotts300

iTrader: (46)

Hey John!

The next event will be MUCH easier. They are a lot shorter and less confusing - this was a hard autox - especially for your first time out.

Well, there were two other silver Zs. One is Silverstone like yours, that wasn't me. He and I were in the 3rd run group together. Mine is chrome silver with the Z Car Garage license plate frame and window stickers (see pic). Fred is the guy from ZCG - he was there with his Mini Cooper in the first run group. He is an awesome guy (and he just clipped your time by ~0.7s).

Those ladies really did rip it up! I had been warned that the woman with that orange Camaro would threaten for TTOD, and she sure was close (78.0s). Funny thing is that the woman with the Elise beat her in the fun runs with a 76.4s run. TTOD was a 74.3 (thank you, thank you very much) followed by a 76.0 by that prepped C5 Corvette in the first run group with those steamroller 305/335 V710 tires (attached pic).

If I don't see you in August, we'll certainly see you in September! You are still listed as a guest, but once they update everything, you'll get points for the Marina event and you'll be in class "E".

DavesZ#3

iTrader: (26)

WOW!!! That Z is LOWWWWwwwwww.

scotts300

iTrader: (46)

and to think that I actually raised it ~1/4" after the TC Kline coilover install! You realize, of course, that this picture was taken under load.

solidfish

iTrader: (7)

Ah, I remember your car now. I think we were all in the same run group. I remember going a few cars behind you. I can't believe you hit a 74 run, thats nuts. Those 78s runs looked crazy fast, can't imagine what yours would've looked like. congrats!

That corvette was nuts too. Thing was fast and louder than the planes next to us. I'm looking forward to meeting you in September. I'll have plenty of autox and Z related questions for ya.

DavesZ#3

iTrader: (26)

Yes. The front lip looks like it's scraping the ground.

scotts300

iTrader: (46)

It gets close, but it hasn't scraped.

PDX_Racer

iTrader: (2)

I can understand that. It's real frustrating to see people a lot faster than you in cars that should be slower.

The best advice I ever got was from a friend who told me that I wasn't even running fast enough to be in H Stock (when I was in D Stock). That was a wake-up call, since he was exactly right.

Peak350

iTrader: (6)

Scott, what are you running in terms of alignment and tires?

I'm happy with the alignment I have in the rear, my rear shock settings, my spring rates, but I'm still dialing my front alignment and shocks settings. I'm switching tires and wheels (hopefully for the AutoX sunday) but have no idea where I should set my alignment (take this to PM if you prefer).


FWIW - I'm going to be running STU2, which if I understand correctly allows street tires up to 285 width, I'm going to be running 275 square with XS's or Z1's if I'm reading the right set of rules.

scotts300

iTrader: (46)

Honestly, I've only gone by tire temps so far. I purchased adj. front and rear control arms (SPL) but have not had a need to install them yet after logging tire temps. Actually, my tire temps for autox had been higher on the inside than on the outside until this most recent autox where the front outers finally were about 15F hotter than the inners. The rears are still good, so I won't fuss back there, and camber is 1.5^. I figure I'll put the fronts at 2.5^ to start, as I've seen some run 2.2 and some up to 3.x.

Our autox group is a bit different than your traditional rules, but without going into all of it, I am running 275 V710s all around on 17x9.5" SSR Comps.

Here was our ~3/4 mile track last Sunday. Also attached are Gs and speed vs distance for me (Scott) compared to our club President (Stuart) in his C6 with 275/335 R888 tires.

Peak350

iTrader: (6)

I'd kind of ended up ~2.7 front 2.0 rear on my car. I didn't have my temp gun to check the tire temps last event, this sunday I'll make sure I've got it and see where they are landing, but given that I'm on the stock front sway and running street tires (and these courses are always REALLY tight lower speed courses) I doubt I'll drop to 2.2 (next adjustment down on the SPL's as installed).

I saw huge improvement going from the stock camber settings to 2.7 on the front. My turn in actually happened and I was able to carry a lot more speed in tighter situations.