I am not privey to the discssions of SCCA officials, but it does sound like they have unfairly picked on the 350Z. If that is the case, than it's really no surprise that they are neutering the 370Z even more, since the 370Z is a faster track car.

 

IMHO, based on rumors and innuendo....

The comp board got burned real bad by GM two years ago when they classed the Solstice. They are being conservative in classing the 370Z to keep from repeating their mistake.

 

I wonder how they make these decisions. They should hire a consistent shoe to wheel the cars around one designated track in bone stock trim. Put a Randy Pobst in there or something.

 

Wouldn't work. A sandbagging OEM would supply a de-tuned car for Randy to drive around the track. Then there's the whole weather thing. The comp board does a pretty good job given the inherent limitations of budgets, time, and information access. Its really up to the OEMs to get their cars classed properly.

In years past (the Ron Johnson and earlier eras) Nissan Motorsports made a big effort to get their cars classed as advantageously as possible. That effort resulted in a lot of national championships. As Nissan's corporate focus changed more towards professional racing the effort expended with SCCA dropped. We're seeing the results of that.

 

I fixed that for you.

I think it is very important to start conservative. I say forget encouraging someone to build a new car, stay focused on keeping your current customers happy. Particularly in this economy. It is way less expensive for everyone if the current cars are made competitive - I say cars because we cant do anything to make T2 drivers that run SSB lap times faster.

And for everyone that thinks the T3 350 classification sucks... It will still be faster than an RX-8 at RA.

The system is not perfect, and without a spec series it never will be. Play the game, or don't. We spent a year petitioning to get our SSC Nissan competitive, and it fell on deaf ears. So we have moved on to a different car.

 

The only problem with this is it stops the forward progression of things. This is why series and classes die, (eg. CART and IRL, however that's a whole other monster). When the new markee is hampered so badly the manufacters and private race teams tend to back away from the "Money Pit" required to get a competitive effort going. This leads to 2-3 competitive makes and a de-facto spec class. I'm all for making the your the old makes competitive just don't cut the latest and greatest offerings off at the knees to make it work.

Being this type of SCCA racing has less manufacter involvment it not as prevalent but I think the arguement stands.

 

Let's call a spade a spade- there are politics that take place. That being said, if the Runoffs were at Lime Rock, Z drivers wouldn't be complaining too much. I hasten to think the Z would be fine there. Problem is (I assume, having driven RA but not a 350 there) that the track doesn't play to its strengths.

Does anyone with knowledge of these HR motors have an educated guess (not just a guess) about what two 40mm inlet restrictors would do to hp/tq?

 

Having raced with the SCCA for 25+ years, I don't subscribe to the Nissan conspiracy theory with regards to the CRB. At one point in the history of the SCCA, manufacturers were allowed to lobby SCCA staffers for their interests and Nissan (in the Frank Honsowetz/Ron Johnson era) played this game well. But the shift in internal Nissan values, together with the restructuring of the CRB has led to the present system. Certainly there are politics involved (what form of motorsports doesn't?), but I favor the view that this group of volunteer members try to do their best to equalize competition within their internal guidelines.

Having said that, the CRB has made mistakes and is far from perfect. The classifying of the 370Z with the currently published set of rules is a good example IMHO. While it's clear that the CRB won't want a situation like the Solstice GXP again, there's ample evidence that the weight and brake package the 370Z is assigned won't provide any incentive for Nissan competitors to build any new cars. I know one potential entrant who has already nixed the idea of converting his Z34 after seeing the rules. Meanwhile, many 350Z entrants are already avoiding the Runoffs and will soon drop racing nationals, so the 'keep your current customers happy' argument doesn't hold much water either.

 

Unless anyone has actually dyno'd an HR with the 40 mm restrictors, it's always going to be a guess. The problem with the T3 classification isn't as much the restrictors, it's the 3400 pound minimum weight limit and lack of any suspension package. There's reports that at least one serious 350Z National campaigner will give it a go, so maybe you can ask after the season starts.

 

Like Pauly G said "call a spade a spade", they've handicapped an already handicapped car. Its obvious they don't care if the car is competetive or not. I guess the other makes keep the class running strong and they see the status quo as fine.

 

SCCA's ultimate measure of class success is car counts at the Runoffs. Two basic (and IMHO correct) assumptions of SCCA classing are:

1. As many cars as possible will be classed and given a place to race. That does not mean they have a chance to win, but that they have a place to race with some level of competitiveness.

2. Racers are intelligent people and will evaluate classes and cars and pick the combination that gives them (the racer) the best chance of winning. Marque loyalty is not a consideration.

 

I agree with you here, but it doesn't make it right... if a car is classed in a division it should have a chance at being competetive. Bottom line... we are biased and see the slight disadvantage as a major one. Unfortunately, in racing and slight disadvantages add up. SCCA obviously don't see this as we do and there seems to be no indication that they are going to change.

 

February Fastrack is out and no changes listed for the 370Z in T2.

 

I know that I'm new here but I am as are most of you it seems a member and fan of the SCCA and it's racing. I do not wish to cause any arguments however I was hoping that I could provide some insight in the current discussion.

The SCCA tries to class cars as equally as possible and they do not use the current runoffs track to class cars. What they do is class a car and "give or "take away" certain things to try to make the car as competitive as they can. They obviously don't want a new guy with the newest classed car coming in and stomping everyone on the way to a National Championship. That being said, it seems as though you are all aware of the fiasco that is the Solstice. They were given every mod they desired before the car hit the track and thus they were the clear cut fastest car for two years and have won 3 straight championships. I personally think that the board has done a good job at bringing the Solstice back down a peg or two, Don Knowles (great driver) had a fight with the EVO and the Z4 which is what the SCCA loves. 5 different cars in the top 7 is not a bad result. The year before that 5 Solstices would have finished 1-5 if it werent for Don crashing and Zeigler getting DQ'ed.

When the EVO came into the SCCA it was a T1 car, when it was finally classed in T2 is had to remain almost completely stock. The same thing happened with the Elise, could you imagine having 180-190hp going up against 350-400hp Corvettes, not to mention extremely skinny tires??? That would be scary at RA. The guys with Z28's and the guys with CTS-V's are extremely heavy and are not very competitive unless they are on a power track. So making the Z work for it's gains in aftermarket performance isn't out of the ordinary for the SCCA. Half way through the year they will have the June Sprints and every make and model with have some sort of black box that will measure the car on the track and see where it is. Last year they took 150lbs off the Solstice after the Sprints, and took away the 275's from the EVO when an Evo didn't even finish a lap and the Solstice wasn't driven by Don Knowles. That being said, put the Z at Roebling Road or Lime Rock and I think it wins the National Championship.

I keep hearing people talk about the growth of T2, but at the same time should every turbo charged car be knocked down 60hp, the CTS-V weigh 3950, all of this to stay competitive with a car that is running slower times than S2000's at the same track? I love the Z but I think it's in the wrong class. I would love to see a Z and an S2000 battle it out at Roebling or at Lime Rock. The classes are getting faster because street cars are getting faster, I don't think the problem in the SCCA as much as it is the fact that Nissan isn't helping in making a faster product from the factory. In time the Z will get more things and soon enough it will, as a few of them did last year, win regions on the way to developing a car that will be more competitive at a National Championship not named Road America. I mostly follow the North East region and it was won by a 350Z and he beat out the EVO that was winning most of the National Championship. I think last year, head to head, that Z beat that EVO 2 times, where that EVO only beat him once.

That's my 2 cents, have fun and see you all at the track in 2010.

 

I get you ITBH22, but when you look at the fastest teams and drivers (loyalist excluded) the Z has been seen as an inferior car for years now. It just seems to most (an outsider looking in) that your efforts are best placed building another car. Personally, I will reserve complete judgement until I do my own homework and study up on the rulebook, but the proof is in the results, and in my mind the Runoffs are the most telling measuring stick. Either all the Z teams and drivers are second tier or they are not getting a fair shake. Although either is possible I would like to believe the latter. It is also very possible the car is stalemated in-between classes, too slow for one too fast for the other, but in such a case shouldn't the rules help level the playing fields?