Z car AutoX and Roadcourse Modification Guide
10-26-2010, 11:03 AM
#61
Don't have the read out with me but I think it was something like this.
-Front Toe ~0
-Rear Toe .05 (total)
-Front Camber ~ 2.25
-Rear Camber ~ 2.60 - 2.70
-Caster - Don't know but should be very close to spec if not identical
-Front tires temps showed (150 - 158 - 165) Roughly the same right and left. Looks a little over-inflated ut I choose to leave them alone for the day.
-Rear temps (~130 - 152 - 172) Because the settings were so out of the ball park I couldn't make a good decision on what to do with the pressures.
-Cold pressures (I evened them out from my normal daily driving pressures but ideally I probably would have dropped the fronts to 32. In the rear, they looked to have and even spread but I didn't trust the temps I got to make a change thinking I might be getting an artifically high innner figure because of the camber)
-Front 35 psi
-Rear 38 psi
Tires were Falken 452's at 245 & 275's (300 treadwear tires) at the end of their useful life.
-Overall feel was understeering to neutral depending on throttle input which is odd because of the staggered setup. I'm thinking the rear pressures were helping to keep the rear free.
-Front Toe ~0
-Rear Toe .05 (total)
-Front Camber ~ 2.25
-Rear Camber ~ 2.60 - 2.70
-Caster - Don't know but should be very close to spec if not identical
-Front tires temps showed (150 - 158 - 165) Roughly the same right and left. Looks a little over-inflated ut I choose to leave them alone for the day.
-Rear temps (~130 - 152 - 172) Because the settings were so out of the ball park I couldn't make a good decision on what to do with the pressures.
-Cold pressures (I evened them out from my normal daily driving pressures but ideally I probably would have dropped the fronts to 32. In the rear, they looked to have and even spread but I didn't trust the temps I got to make a change thinking I might be getting an artifically high innner figure because of the camber)
-Front 35 psi
-Rear 38 psi
Tires were Falken 452's at 245 & 275's (300 treadwear tires) at the end of their useful life.
-Overall feel was understeering to neutral depending on throttle input which is odd because of the staggered setup. I'm thinking the rear pressures were helping to keep the rear free.
Last edited by Zazz93; 10-26-2010 at 01:07 PM.
10-26-2010, 11:12 AM
#62
At the Big Track you should run an asymetric alignment with the rears being the most important. I've never run more then -2.5 on the back of any car at WSIR and the wider the tire the less camber you'll need. You'll also want to eliminate as much scrub as possible so toe in front should be close to zero (slightly out) and rear toe about 1/16" in.
A very general set of 350Z alignment numbers for the big track (assuming 285/30-18s all around):
OVERALL
Ride height - Left side - 1/4" lower in front compared to rear. Right side - 1/2" lower in front compared to the rear
Track - 1" wider in front then rear.
FRONT
Toe - 1/32 to 1/16" out.
Caster - +9 even on both sides.
Camber - 2.5 negative LF / 1.5 negative RF
REAR
Toe - 1/16" in.
Camber - 1.5" negative LR / 1" negative RR
A very general set of 350Z alignment numbers for the big track (assuming 285/30-18s all around):
OVERALL
Ride height - Left side - 1/4" lower in front compared to rear. Right side - 1/2" lower in front compared to the rear
Track - 1" wider in front then rear.
FRONT
Toe - 1/32 to 1/16" out.
Caster - +9 even on both sides.
Camber - 2.5 negative LF / 1.5 negative RF
REAR
Toe - 1/16" in.
Camber - 1.5" negative LR / 1" negative RR
Beta,
Those are pretty specialized settings. However I would imagine the settings being sometimes different by as much as 1 degree may be a little inconsistant in feel. Did you feel you had to compensate for the settings or were they pretty much transparent? At a 120+ in turn 8 the slightest odd feeling would just kill your confidence.
10-26-2010, 12:55 PM
#63
Don't have the read out with me but I think it was something like this.
-Front Toe ~0
-Rear Toe .05 (total)
-Front Camber ~ 2.25
-Rear Camber ~ 2.60 - 2.70
-Caster - Don't know but should be very close to spec if not identical
-Front tires temps showed (150 - 158 - 165) Roughly the same right and left. Looks a little over-inflated ut I choose to leave them alone for the day.
-Rear temps (~130 - 152 - 172) Because the settings were so out of the ball park I couldn't make a good decision on what to do with the pressures.
-Cold pressures (I evened them out from my normal daily driving pressures but ideally I probably would have dropped the fronts to 32. In the rear, they rears looked to have and even spread but I didn't trust the temps I got to make a change thinking I might be getting an artifically high inside figure because of the camber)
-Front 35 psi
-Rear 38 psi
Tires were Falken 452's at 245 & 275's (300 treadwear tires) at the end of their useful life.
-Overall feel was understeering to neutral depending on throttle input which is odd because of the staggered setup. I'm thinking the rear pressures were helping to keep the rear free.
-Front Toe ~0
-Rear Toe .05 (total)
-Front Camber ~ 2.25
-Rear Camber ~ 2.60 - 2.70
-Caster - Don't know but should be very close to spec if not identical
-Front tires temps showed (150 - 158 - 165) Roughly the same right and left. Looks a little over-inflated ut I choose to leave them alone for the day.
-Rear temps (~130 - 152 - 172) Because the settings were so out of the ball park I couldn't make a good decision on what to do with the pressures.
-Cold pressures (I evened them out from my normal daily driving pressures but ideally I probably would have dropped the fronts to 32. In the rear, they rears looked to have and even spread but I didn't trust the temps I got to make a change thinking I might be getting an artifically high inside figure because of the camber)
-Front 35 psi
-Rear 38 psi
Tires were Falken 452's at 245 & 275's (300 treadwear tires) at the end of their useful life.
-Overall feel was understeering to neutral depending on throttle input which is odd because of the staggered setup. I'm thinking the rear pressures were helping to keep the rear free.
It's hard to analyze this data too much though given the lousy and worn street tires.
10-26-2010, 03:28 PM
#64
Beta,
Those are pretty specialized settings. However I would imagine the settings being sometimes different by as much as 1 degree may be a little inconsistant in feel. Did you feel you had to compensate for the settings or were they pretty much transparent? At a 120+ in turn 8 the slightest odd feeling would just kill your confidence.
Those are pretty specialized settings. However I would imagine the settings being sometimes different by as much as 1 degree may be a little inconsistant in feel. Did you feel you had to compensate for the settings or were they pretty much transparent? At a 120+ in turn 8 the slightest odd feeling would just kill your confidence.
EDIT: Regarding consistency with the above suggested alignment numbers - what I want to see is consistency in the each corner, lap after lap. Yes, those numbers make 1, 3, and 5 a little trickier but those corners don't matter as much as all the others. You spend more time per lap in 2, 4, 8, and 9.
BTW... If you're not on the limit and thinking you're about to crash in turns 8 and 9, you're leaving time on the track. That's where all the time is at WSIR. Well, there maybe some time in Turn 2... :-)
Last edited by betamotorsports; 10-26-2010 at 03:32 PM.
10-26-2010, 03:44 PM
#65
EDIT: Regarding consistency with the above suggested alignment numbers - what I want to see is consistency in the each corner, lap after lap. Yes, those numbers make 1, 3, and 5 a little trickier but those corners don't matter as much as all the others. You spend more time per lap in 2, 4, 8, and 9.
Nothing but the truth! These two turns are where I noticed the biggest time drop offs. I may grab a Traqmate to really track changes sector by sector.
10-26-2010, 04:05 PM
#66
For the sake of comparison....
Here is my alignment on 285/30/18 R888:
Front:
Camber: -2.9 L&R
Toe: .04 out on each side
Caster: 9.3
Rear:
Camber: -1.9 L&R
Toe: .04 in on each side
I was running a bit more rear camber, but since I am still on the stock vlsd it was causing some initial traction issues.
Here is my alignment on 285/30/18 R888:
Front:
Camber: -2.9 L&R
Toe: .04 out on each side
Caster: 9.3
Rear:
Camber: -1.9 L&R
Toe: .04 in on each side
I was running a bit more rear camber, but since I am still on the stock vlsd it was causing some initial traction issues.
10-26-2010, 04:11 PM
#67
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Don't have the read out with me but I think it was something like this.
-Front Toe ~0
-Rear Toe .05 (total)
-Front Camber ~ 2.25
-Rear Camber ~ 2.60 - 2.70
-Caster - Don't know but should be very close to spec if not identical
-Front tires temps showed (150 - 158 - 165) Roughly the same right and left. Looks a little over-inflated ut I choose to leave them alone for the day.
-Rear temps (~130 - 152 - 172) Because the settings were so out of the ball park I couldn't make a good decision on what to do with the pressures.
-Cold pressures (I evened them out from my normal daily driving pressures but ideally I probably would have dropped the fronts to 32. In the rear, they looked to have and even spread but I didn't trust the temps I got to make a change thinking I might be getting an artifically high innner figure because of the camber)
-Front 35 psi
-Rear 38 psi
Tires were Falken 452's at 245 & 275's (300 treadwear tires) at the end of their useful life.
-Overall feel was understeering to neutral depending on throttle input which is odd because of the staggered setup. I'm thinking the rear pressures were helping to keep the rear free.
-Front Toe ~0
-Rear Toe .05 (total)
-Front Camber ~ 2.25
-Rear Camber ~ 2.60 - 2.70
-Caster - Don't know but should be very close to spec if not identical
-Front tires temps showed (150 - 158 - 165) Roughly the same right and left. Looks a little over-inflated ut I choose to leave them alone for the day.
-Rear temps (~130 - 152 - 172) Because the settings were so out of the ball park I couldn't make a good decision on what to do with the pressures.
-Cold pressures (I evened them out from my normal daily driving pressures but ideally I probably would have dropped the fronts to 32. In the rear, they looked to have and even spread but I didn't trust the temps I got to make a change thinking I might be getting an artifically high innner figure because of the camber)
-Front 35 psi
-Rear 38 psi
Tires were Falken 452's at 245 & 275's (300 treadwear tires) at the end of their useful life.
-Overall feel was understeering to neutral depending on throttle input which is odd because of the staggered setup. I'm thinking the rear pressures were helping to keep the rear free.
Steve Mitchell is recomending me to run -3.4 front and -1 to -1.5 rear. I may try his suggestion when i get the Motons installed next month.
11-16-2010, 08:11 AM
#69
Got down to the bottom of what caused such a drastic change in handling, the previous alignment wasn't exactly what showed on the spec sheet.
-Front Toe .22 total (Too much for me)
-Front Camber -1.7 (I like this number)
-Rear Toe (Rt) -.05 (Lt) +.12 (Never really driven on a setting like this but it more than likely accounts for the rear instability on the brakes)
-Rear Camber -3.10 and -3.20 (Again a little too much, and more than likely attributing to the loose rear on the brakes)
-Front Toe .22 total (Too much for me)
-Front Camber -1.7 (I like this number)
-Rear Toe (Rt) -.05 (Lt) +.12 (Never really driven on a setting like this but it more than likely accounts for the rear instability on the brakes)
-Rear Camber -3.10 and -3.20 (Again a little too much, and more than likely attributing to the loose rear on the brakes)
11-22-2010, 11:49 AM
#70
Hey guys, after a recent outing at CA speedway I noticed a few things. The alignment update was noticably helpful but the rear brakes ran a pretty high temp, they were roughly 120 degrees higher than the fronts after a slow cool down and a long easy drive back to the parking area (389F after the long cool down). I noticed the rear pressures were up substanitally as well (probably due to the high heat). Because I have had complaints with the rear end on the brakes I'm wondering how the rear bias is determined on the stock system. Now even more so after seing the temps run that much higher than the fronts.
11-22-2010, 12:03 PM
#71
You can't use the brakes temps after cool down lap as any kind of measure. Front brakes will see significantly more cooling then the rears. You must come into the pits on a hot lap and take an immediate temp reading. Same is true for the tires. There is really no temp or pressure reading that's of any suspension tuning value after taking a cool down lap.
11-22-2010, 01:09 PM
#72
You can't use the brakes temps after cool down lap as any kind of measure. Front brakes will see significantly more cooling then the rears. You must come into the pits on a hot lap and take an immediate temp reading. Same is true for the tires. There is really no temp or pressure reading that's of any suspension tuning value after taking a cool down lap.
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