Last week I had my second track experience at Laguna Seca. I'm running stock tires and brakes (non-brembos) and I'm concerned about the threshold of these brakes.

In the afternoon, after a 20 minute session the rotors were very hot, with a bright orange glow. Later at home, I noticed that the rotors actually changed colors to a pale orange.



The pads seem fine, but they dug into the rotor a bit. There is a small groove indented into the rotor from the pads. But the rotors dont have cracks and I cant see any other problems. I'm hoping these are still safe to drive on? I'm still kind of new to the track but should I be concerned about safety when running the stock brakes? I dont think I push the car to the limits, but I'm wondering if I should upgrade the brakes before heading out to the track again.

 

What brake fluid are you using? I'd be more worried about your brake fluid boiling. Stock brakes and rotors will hold up a couple track days. If your are a regular at the track then it would be wise to upgrade pads and rotors anyways. Pads I recommend Carbotech. Blank rotors are best for track due to more surface area. Check www.r1concepts.com for some decent pricing plus quality.

 

Brakes look good to me. Yes. If you heat cool heat cool rotors they will change color. No big deal.

 

Well, stock 03 to 05 brakes suck. They are fine for street use, but are downright scary for track use. Some people have prolonged their use of the stock brakes by adding cooling ducts, braided lines and high quality brake fluid, but if your going to track the car, you need a BBK or some kind.

Yes your rotors are fine to drive on, but look at your pads, they are probably trash and you need to bleed your brakes after they saw that high of heat.

 

John,
How do the pads look? If they were a street pad that got super hot, they are likely down to nothing and may have worn unevenly. You can make the stock non-Brembo rear set-up work, but you'd need to get a much more aggressive pad. A good middle ground is getting a set of Brembos all-around.

 

The brakes were oem street pads but were fairly new so they still have meat on them. I inspected all four corners and the pads seemed ok. The only concerns were the rotors and how the pads slightly dug into them. I've read that rotors could wear unevenly during hard braking. I'm running my fingers across the rotors to feel for any bumps or uneven surface, but cant really tell for sure..

Thanks for reminding me about the fluid. I didn't look at that very closely and will need to check that tonight.

I definitely would like to look into other braking options before the next track day. Do you think its necessary to replace all 4 calipers? I was considering finding a replacement for just the fronts and running stock on the rears (with some better pads perhaps).

 

for BBK

 

You can certainly make the non-Brembo rears work with a good front upgrade (that's what I'm currently running), but if you were going to do an occasional track day (and autox) here and there, I'd personally opt for the Brembo set (while saving yourself a few bucks over a front BBK). Changing pads is an absolute breeze on the Brembos, which is a plus in my book given how often I change pads (I just bought Brembo rears for the track car).

 

Ya I dont see myself tracking as often as some track nuts that I know. :P

Thats really all I hope to do, a few of track days a year with the monthly autox. I'll start looking around for used brembo set. Thanks for all the advice!

 

You can usually find a brembo set-up for 900-1100, and occasionally find a front stoptech set-up for 1000-1200. I opted for the latter, but have yet to get out with them.

 

That was sort of my thinking, though I figured the used Stoptech 332mm front kits would still catch $1300-1500. So comparing that to a full set of used Brembos for ~$1000, I figured there was enough savings to justify the 4-wheel Brembo kit given his particular usage.

Now, get out there with them already!

 

It's starting to warm up and snow is melting away finally.....we hit 45 today . Hopefully soon. Mother nature can be a cruel ***** though......

 

There was full brembo kit on craigslist a few months ago for $1200 I think. I wasn't interested at the time but wish I jumped on them earlier.

It was a mild 65 degrees at track last week. i'm originally from colorado so I know how winters are supposed to be. Its unnatural here...

 

If you run your finger across the rotor, and can't tell if they are scratched up... they're fine... you would easily tell if they had deep grooves cut into them.

Keep your eye on the forums, my Stoptech 14" BBK on all 4 corners cost me $2000... although I had to replace 2 front rotors which was another $500. They definitely proved worth the money at Laguna Seca where I could consistently brake deep in just before the turns gaining a lot of ground.

For autoX though, they didn't help me much. My 350z is way to heavy for autoX at 3500lbs when I'm in the car. I didn't like how the autoX course had a bunch of abrupt 90* turns and sharp angles... it felt like I was racing around the streets of a small narrow

I think BBK's are justifiable for use on the track & touge or any other sort of driving where there is constant repeated heavy braking. AutoX doesn't have much braking though so I think even a stock setup with street pads would work fine without fading badly.

 

Agreed, hence why I think the Brembos are the best bet for a car that is autox'd 10x/year and tracked a few. Easy pad changes rule! I run street pads for autox. They're cheap and they have great initial bite

 

I ran my first event at Laguna Seca last month and had a similar problem (but I have 06 w/ Brembo). During my 4th 20 minute session I noticed significant fade, so I took the remaining laps easy. When I got into the paddock my brake pedal went right to the floor...it was easier to push than the clutch...nothing. Fortunately I was acting like a good neighbor and was crawling at a snails pace. My instructor had me drive around for 15 minutes and I let the brakes cool for an hour and was able to complete my 5th session, albeit very cautiously, with no issues.

I imagine my rookie driving skills are partly to blame (was I dragging my foot on the brake?), but I would like to add a little security for my next event (march). Is this just a fluid issue?

Sorry OP if this is rude to interject, I figured if you go for the Brembos, this question may be of value to you as well.

Thanks,
Justin

 

i would make sure you have fresh Dot4 for your next event. Believe it or not, any off the shelf Dot 4 should be fine. I run prestone in mine, its the highest boiling point of the normal Dot 4 brake fluids. Motul 600 or ATE Blue would be the next step up, both very good.

Brake pads, standard street pads are actually going to run hotter. The hotter your brakes run , they better the change of boiling the fluid. If your getting into tracking your car upgrade to a better pad. Something that is part street and part track will work for you till later in your tracking days, also dedicated track pads will give you more days at the track before they wear out than a typical street pad. Get pads!!!

 

I would also get a set of more aggressive pads and have them with you at the next track event and keep an eye on the pads, especially the rears. you'll need the pads eventually anyway.

 

+1 on the Prestone if there's nothing available. I know autozone and pep boys stock it and its really quite good. A buddy of mine had a mustang that boiled off its brakes at Etown last year. The only stuff we could get was Prestone just to get him home. Well, he never remembered to flush and put ATE in and has run several events on Prestone without boiling over.

 

As you have been told, what you are going to do with the Z is critical to your choice. Here is my .02 as to what to do in the order of cost. I am assuming cost is an issue or you would have already just thrown on a BBK, etc.

1st, It sounds like you are new to the track and you do this for fun. Before you change a thing on the car, change your driving. As an instructor, I see guys spend thousands on their cars and not one dime on the most critical part of being on the track...the driver. So try change your braking method first; it costs you nothing. Do don't fly into corners and jam on the brakes. Brake sooner and smoother. If you don't try to over drive your equipment, you can enjoy your day at the track and the only real money you will spend is doing your brakes early rather than later. Besides, there is no need to threshold brake on a track day...there are no trophies or prize money last time I checked. This change is free and you may even notice that there is an ocean view from the top of the corkscrew.

2nd, try adding air cooling ducts to the Z. They are easy to do and fairly inexpensive. Besides, cooling ducts can do nothing to hurt your car.

3rd, the next change I would make regardless of how much you do is steel braided brake lines with high performance brake fluid. I like the Motul brand, but there are plenty of good ones out there. This is critical for any track car and is retained is you upgrade the brake system.

4th, change I would make to a stock set up is a more aggressive pad made for track and street use. Carbotech, Hawk, etc. all make pads for this application. Personally, I would also put a more stout set of rotors on, too. Doing the front's only is fine. Stoptech has a Stage 2 upgrade that accomplishes this all.

5th, look for a used BBK on the forum as others have advised. I think they have covered the topic well so I won't beat a dead horse. I like stoptech's, some like Brembo, others AP, etc....you get the picture. Stoptech's work for me because they are the easiest to work with (in my humble opinion).

Now if you are under the belief that you have to have huge brakes so you can hammer it into a corner because that is the fastest way around a track, you need to change your thought process. Getting on the throttle faster will drop your times much more than trying to carry too much speed into a corner. That is where the saying slow in so you can be fast out. The more collected you are in a turn, the faster you can get back on the throttle. And the faster you are to the throttle, the bigger advantage you have on your opponent. You can even make up time on cars with more horsepower but having an earlier throttle pick up point on turn out.

Consider how much you are on your brakes on a racetrack. Take Willow Springs for example, you are only on the brakes for about 5-6% of the track...Laguna Seca 7-8%. So based on that info, how important is brake set up for your times? The only reason road racers have big brakes is because of 1) their speeds 2) the amount of time they use them and 3) so they come complete competitive passes. So if money is no issue, buy the BBK and git-r-done. But if you want to learn to do it right and build up to the point you may need a BBK, consider the list above.

I hope this helps and didn't just prolong the thread for no reason. It's just my opinion that you should start with the driver and work little by little to see what will yield the most cost effective results.