Shamu

Need to look at this closer

christoc

iTrader: (2)

I didn't buy SPC arms because I didn't think they would be legal.

I'm going with John's custom offset bushings for now, hoping they are here tomorrow and I can get them installed this weekend and run the SCCA event on Sunday. Though my alignment tools won't be here until next week.

Z1NONLY

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

My second biggest complaint about the SCCA (after the jacked up rules/classes) is that it seems to have a lot of protest-happy people. (at the national-level events)

My second autocross ever was a national tour event that used our club's venue. (This is before I was a member) ....And someone protested the course.

guitarist

iTrader: (1)

I just ran the stock adjustment in the rear--could get up to 2.5 degrees negative with a pretty mild drop, ended up at -2.2, which was too much, imo, though it might be about right for a wider BSP tire. I think -1.8-2.0 is more ideal for autocross in terms of getting power down while still keeping the rear in control.

DmanG281

iTrader: (3)

Ha, I think I was at this event. Fort Meyers a few year back and the slalom was more like a vague straightaway?

That being said I would also disagree with going with a part that has some gray area around it and just counting on winning a protest.

betamotorsports

iTrader: (1)

You can always protest yourself. Been done a few times to get a rule clarification.

Z1NONLY

iTrader: (2)

That's the one.

If I lost to another driver, there's no way I could claim it was because their A-arms had metal in the busings. Or their "wing", or their after-market radio that weighs 2lbs less than the stock radio, or the fact that they didn't add cruise control when they upgraded their base's open differential to an enthusiast LSD.

On and on and on....

I would feel like a whiny little...well....

christoc

iTrader: (2)

No disagreements with you there, but legal is legal, and people like to try to push the rules. this rule is pretty clear cut.

That being said, it looks like I'll be putting the SPL arms on. At least for a couple of days. I don't have any way to push the OEM bushings out to get the new ones from John in, so I'm gonna run the SPL on the street for a day or two and hopefully find a shop that can press the OEM bushings out of the OEM arms so I can get them back on one evening this week.

Shamu

See this is crazy stuff that I dont think rules were intended to drive. Cant you appeal to SEB for a ruling that allows commonly available camber arms? Why custom machine something? Thats nuts in my opinion for street prepared car. This thing about more metal? What do they mean by that? More total surface area of the bushing contact area? More metal around bushing? Bushing cannot consist of more metal than stock? What was original intent of the rule? Anyone know?

Ruff Z

iTrader: (8)

It's plain as day dude... the rule is exactly as it seems... a replacement bushing cannot contain more metal (total area) then stock. The intent is that a bushing with more metal then stock will flex less, result in a more compliant suspension.

That said, it can be a pain in the *** to get legal suspension bits for some cars, but that's just part of the game. If as many 350z's were raced as miata's, we wouldn't have as tough a time finding quality parts that are SP, etc legal. It's part of the game, if you guys don't like it (not you Chris ) then

03threefiftyz

iTrader: (25)

As I was saying with Chris in a little PM back and forth.....the only ones that look close to complying are the Kinetix:




Stock (sorry crappy pics from my P&S):


Thoughts?

christoc

iTrader: (2)

I got some photos today of the OEM arms/bushings that I think shed some light on the deal. It looks like the bushing may also have some metal on the outside of the rubber, which I think could be argued as part of the bushing. Though I'm waiting to see what actually comes out when they are pressed out.

I'll have the photos up later tonight

betamotorsports

iTrader: (1)

1. Burn out the rubber part of the stock bushings and push the center out.
2. Take the blade of your hacksaw and thread it through the bushing opening.
3. Reassemble the hacksaw and cut one or two slits in the steel outer bushing shell.
4. Using a chisel, carefully curl the cut corners of the steel outer shell into the center.
5. At some point you should be able to push the shell out.

betamotorsports

iTrader: (1)

The intent was to keep people from running all metal bushings. Even in the stock classes, where cars have to run the OEM bushing, competitors were using nail guns to fill the rubber around the bushing with metal.

The amount of metal is determined by comparison with a stock bushing. Diameter, thickness, position, and weight.

And custom machining parts has been a common practice in Street Prepared for at least 20 years. I've built intake manifolds, headers, TBs, brackets, bushings, etc. from scratch for myself and a number of customers for SP cars. This is racing, its not "street tuner" bolt-on bling.

christoc

iTrader: (2)

Thanks John, going that route! Got step 1 done, but need to try to get 2-5 done tomorrow night after work

Shamu

I'm looking into some solutions that might be legal.

Shamu

I wish there was another solution I could buy off the shelf

Z1NONLY

iTrader: (2)

I understand they intended to keep people from running metal bushings. What I don't understand is why they care. (Assuming the bushings aren't a safety issue, of course.)

I don't know why they care if a driver makes a full-conversion when using parts between the different trim levels of the same car. "Sure you can use the VLSD from an enthusiast, but we want you to also install cruise control and HID's too."

I have visions of Rain Man sitting on the SEB..."Gotta add HIDs. Gotta add HID's. Gotta add HID's."

But what do HID's have to do with anything?

"Gotta add HIDs. Gotta add HID's. Gotta add HID's."

Ok, never mind...

I think the fact that they intend to create restrictions with little or no relevance to the competitiveness of the cars is troubling.

Then when they do make rules that are relevant to a car's ability to compete, we get things like race tires normal people wouldn't use on the street in the "Stock" class.

We trailer-in race tires for our street cars that are good for ~1.5-2 seconds over....street tires.....and scrutinize things like cruise control, head lights, and metal bushings that are good for ~0.0-0.00005372 seconds.

betamotorsports

iTrader: (1)

I think you're confusing Street Prepared with Street Touring. Have you even looked at a top level SP car? If you get a chance, look at the Berry's BSP EVO and the engineering that Marshall Grice has put into that thing. Or Bill Schenker's CSP Miata, or...

SP has been a full on, high level preparation category for at least 20 years. A National level SP car has at least $20K spent on preparation, over and above the original purchase price of the car. No one is having this conversation with the SEB because a lot of us that have run SP for years are OK with this bushing rule. Its not that big a deal. By all means, if you have an issue with it, write a letter. I might even write a letter in support. But in the grand scheme of the total expenses related to SP, bushings ain't jack when people spend $15K on an engine, $10K on shocks, $10K on data logging, and $5K during a season on tires.

SM, SP, Prepared, and Modified are categories for people who like engineering. If that's not your gig, run on Stock or ST.

betamotorsports

iTrader: (1)

BTW... ST is going the way of SP as far as car preparation is concerned. I'm currently doing the fab and some of the engineering on a STX 1967 Camaro. Again, go big or go home.

http://www.rhoadescamaro.com/build/

Its the nature of the racing world and the racer to escalate in order to gain an advantage. Stock class cars tend to be the most expensive because an extra 5 hp is significant and some competitors are willing to spend thousands of dollars for 5 hp. Every cost containment effort (except claiming rules) fails. Spec Miata is the prime example.