New NASA Class for 2012: Spec Z
02-06-2012 | 09:19 AM
#122
350Z-holic
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,502
Likes: 22
From: NC
Looking at the rules it appears the motor has to be OEM for the chassis. If not then the HR in an 03 would be the best.
02-06-2012 | 09:39 AM
#124
350Z-holic
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,502
Likes: 22
From: NC
Guess we will need to hear what the clarification is.
Maybe they will add it together
03: 3100 + HR motor: 3300, so you would need to weigh in at 6400 lbs
02-06-2012 | 11:22 AM
#131
1. I agree with others who have posted, that the wheels should to be same width all around. If there is a spec tire that is 275/35/18 all around, then why have a rule on what size rim to use? Why unmount tires to rotate them...it will cost more.
2. Is it normal to have a singular spec diff? Is there that much of an advantage to use a Cusco RS vs. Nismo vs. Quaife vs. ATS vs. Wavetrac? Don't they all cost relatively the same? Are there diffs in the $800-$2000 range that eclipse others in performance? I'm just curious...
3. How does forcing us to use stock Brembo brakes make it more affordable? For those of us who do not own the Track model cars, we would have to buy stock Brembos. Unless we buy used Brembos, is a brand new stock brembo much less expensive than buying other aftermarket brands? If they left the brakes open, then we would buy whatever is most affordable. I don't think aftermarket brakes really vary in price enough that another racer would have an advantage if they spend gobs more money. Plus, if you want to run 14" or 15" brakes, that's your choice...you give up acceleration.
4. Heater core...if you remove all the tubing, then why not just allow us to remove the useless core? We have to meet weight anyway. It's like removing the speakers, but we have to leave the stereo system in.
5. Unrestricted exhaust, but the document mentions that the Nismo Cat-back is allowed. What does unrestricted mean? I thought it meant anything goes, so why mention the Nismo?
6. Same comment as above, but applied to the flywheel.
7. Why is there a max spacer size, but no limitations on wheel offsets?
8. "Any shift **** is allowed". Really? The rule book has to mention shift *****?
9. "Front and rear camber is unrestricted provided it is within the normal limits of adjustment. No modification to increase or decrease camber is allowed." This rule seems conflicting..."unrestricted" vs. "severly restricted".
2. Is it normal to have a singular spec diff? Is there that much of an advantage to use a Cusco RS vs. Nismo vs. Quaife vs. ATS vs. Wavetrac? Don't they all cost relatively the same? Are there diffs in the $800-$2000 range that eclipse others in performance? I'm just curious...
3. How does forcing us to use stock Brembo brakes make it more affordable? For those of us who do not own the Track model cars, we would have to buy stock Brembos. Unless we buy used Brembos, is a brand new stock brembo much less expensive than buying other aftermarket brands? If they left the brakes open, then we would buy whatever is most affordable. I don't think aftermarket brakes really vary in price enough that another racer would have an advantage if they spend gobs more money. Plus, if you want to run 14" or 15" brakes, that's your choice...you give up acceleration.
4. Heater core...if you remove all the tubing, then why not just allow us to remove the useless core? We have to meet weight anyway. It's like removing the speakers, but we have to leave the stereo system in.
5. Unrestricted exhaust, but the document mentions that the Nismo Cat-back is allowed. What does unrestricted mean? I thought it meant anything goes, so why mention the Nismo?
6. Same comment as above, but applied to the flywheel.
7. Why is there a max spacer size, but no limitations on wheel offsets?
8. "Any shift **** is allowed". Really? The rule book has to mention shift *****?
9. "Front and rear camber is unrestricted provided it is within the normal limits of adjustment. No modification to increase or decrease camber is allowed." This rule seems conflicting..."unrestricted" vs. "severly restricted".
02-06-2012 | 11:36 AM
#132
I hope so.
02-06-2012 | 11:48 AM
#133
1. I agree with others who have posted, that the wheels should to be same width all around. If there is a spec tire that is 275/35/18 all around, then why have a rule on what size rim to use? Why unmount tires to rotate them...it will cost more. While I do not disagree, I would prefer a more open allowance of wheels so long as measure in the 18x9-18x10 range (i.e. allow 18x9.5). I mean the excuse that testing was done and the 18x9 and 18x10 favored the most doesn't really stand up with me when tire pressures can do a lot to adjust for proper contact patch and sidewall resistance.
2. Is it normal to have a singular spec diff? Is there that much of an advantage to use a Cusco RS vs. Nismo vs. Quaife vs. ATS vs. Wavetrac? Don't they all cost relatively the same? Are there diffs in the $800-$2000 range that eclipse others in performance? I'm just curious...BEtween brands there can be a lot of variances between performance and maintenance requirements. WaveTrac list the export price for the Z diff at $1295, but it seems the other rwd diffs go between $1095 and $1395 depending on Make/Model.
3. How does forcing us to use stock Brembo brakes make it more affordable? For those of us who do not own the Track model cars, we would have to buy stock Brembos. Unless we buy used Brembos, is a brand new stock brembo much less expensive than buying other aftermarket brands? If they left the brakes open, then we would buy whatever is most affordable. I don't think aftermarket brakes really vary in price enough that another racer would have an advantage if they spend gobs more money. Plus, if you want to run 14" or 15" brakes, that's your choice...you give up acceleration. They are not forcing you to use the brembos, it is an allowable upgrade if you have a car without them. The options are better with the brembos, but there are still strong options out there with the non-brembo setups and they are lighter as well.
4. Heater core...if you remove all the tubing, then why not just allow us to remove the useless core? We have to meet weight anyway. It's like removing the speakers, but we have to leave the stereo system in. I don't really understand this one either
5. Unrestricted exhaust, but the document mentions that the Nismo Cat-back is allowed. What does unrestricted mean? I thought it meant anything goes, so why mention the Nismo? This one caught me too, but you left something out...it is unrestricted past the rear subframe, so I guess we have to use OEM headers, y-pipes and center pipe. Or are we allowed to use the full nismo header-back system and choose a different rear section? Again another non-clear section.?
6. Same comment as above, but applied to the flywheel. I thought that was rather clear actually, no restrictions from what I read other than minimum weight of 14.5-lbs
7. Why is there a max spacer size, but no limitations on wheel offsets? Maybe out of safety
8. "Any shift **** is allowed". Really? The rule book has to mention shift *****? This one struck me as odd, I wonder if they meant short shift kits or shift levers? I know TWM-performance makes a top-notch ball and short-shift assembly.
9. "Front and rear camber is unrestricted provided it is within the normal limits of adjustment. No modification to increase or decrease camber is allowed." This rule seems conflicting..."unrestricted" vs. "severly restricted". Basically you have to use all stock arms and you have to work within the limits they will allow.
2. Is it normal to have a singular spec diff? Is there that much of an advantage to use a Cusco RS vs. Nismo vs. Quaife vs. ATS vs. Wavetrac? Don't they all cost relatively the same? Are there diffs in the $800-$2000 range that eclipse others in performance? I'm just curious...BEtween brands there can be a lot of variances between performance and maintenance requirements. WaveTrac list the export price for the Z diff at $1295, but it seems the other rwd diffs go between $1095 and $1395 depending on Make/Model.
3. How does forcing us to use stock Brembo brakes make it more affordable? For those of us who do not own the Track model cars, we would have to buy stock Brembos. Unless we buy used Brembos, is a brand new stock brembo much less expensive than buying other aftermarket brands? If they left the brakes open, then we would buy whatever is most affordable. I don't think aftermarket brakes really vary in price enough that another racer would have an advantage if they spend gobs more money. Plus, if you want to run 14" or 15" brakes, that's your choice...you give up acceleration. They are not forcing you to use the brembos, it is an allowable upgrade if you have a car without them. The options are better with the brembos, but there are still strong options out there with the non-brembo setups and they are lighter as well.
4. Heater core...if you remove all the tubing, then why not just allow us to remove the useless core? We have to meet weight anyway. It's like removing the speakers, but we have to leave the stereo system in. I don't really understand this one either
5. Unrestricted exhaust, but the document mentions that the Nismo Cat-back is allowed. What does unrestricted mean? I thought it meant anything goes, so why mention the Nismo? This one caught me too, but you left something out...it is unrestricted past the rear subframe, so I guess we have to use OEM headers, y-pipes and center pipe. Or are we allowed to use the full nismo header-back system and choose a different rear section? Again another non-clear section.?
6. Same comment as above, but applied to the flywheel. I thought that was rather clear actually, no restrictions from what I read other than minimum weight of 14.5-lbs
7. Why is there a max spacer size, but no limitations on wheel offsets? Maybe out of safety
8. "Any shift **** is allowed". Really? The rule book has to mention shift *****? This one struck me as odd, I wonder if they meant short shift kits or shift levers? I know TWM-performance makes a top-notch ball and short-shift assembly.
9. "Front and rear camber is unrestricted provided it is within the normal limits of adjustment. No modification to increase or decrease camber is allowed." This rule seems conflicting..."unrestricted" vs. "severly restricted". Basically you have to use all stock arms and you have to work within the limits they will allow.
Last edited by idrive_MD; 02-06-2012 at 11:51 AM.
02-06-2012 | 11:52 AM
#134
350Z-holic
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 14,502
Likes: 22
From: NC
See comments below:
1. I agree with others who have posted, that the wheels should to be same width all around. If there is a spec tire that is 275/35/18 all around, then why have a rule on what size rim to use? Why unmount tires to rotate them...it will cost more.
I think this is to help T2/T3 racers come across.
2. Is it normal to have a singular spec diff? Is there that much of an advantage to use a Cusco RS vs. Nismo vs. Quaife vs. ATS vs. Wavetrac? Don't they all cost relatively the same? Are there diffs in the $800-$2000 range that eclipse others in performance? I'm just curious...
yes, there can be quite a difference in performance and weight per brand. by Specifying a single Diff they are assured that every is equal.
3. How does forcing us to use stock Brembo brakes make it more affordable? For those of us who do not own the Track model cars, we would have to buy stock Brembos. Unless we buy used Brembos, is a brand new stock brembo much less expensive than buying other aftermarket brands? If they left the brakes open, then we would buy whatever is most affordable. I don't think aftermarket brakes really vary in price enough that another racer would have an advantage if they spend gobs more money. Plus, if you want to run 14" or 15" brakes, that's your choice...you give up acceleration.
They are not forcing the Brembos, only allowing them. if you want to use the standard brake you can. If they open up to aftermarket systems, what will keep someone from buying a $10K super lightweight ceramic system if they have the money? Specified brakes are standard on almost every Spec series.
4. Heater core...if you remove all the tubing, then why not just allow us to remove the useless core? We have to meet weight anyway. It's like removing the speakers, but we have to leave the stereo system in.
I have heard this rule is being reviewed
5. Unrestricted exhaust, but the document mentions that the Nismo Cat-back is allowed. What does unrestricted mean? I thought it meant anything goes, so why mention the Nismo?
Selling point for Nissan since they are one of the series sponsors
6. Same comment as above, but applied to the flywheel.
7. Why is there a max spacer size, but no limitations on wheel offsets?
This is usually in there for a safety reason. large Spacers can cause issues.
8. "Any shift **** is allowed". Really? The rule book has to mention shift *****?
9. "Front and rear camber is unrestricted provided it is within the normal limits of adjustment. No modification to increase or decrease camber is allowed." This rule seems conflicting..."unrestricted" vs. "severly restricted".
Common terminology to say you can run anything within X range.
I think this is to help T2/T3 racers come across.
2. Is it normal to have a singular spec diff? Is there that much of an advantage to use a Cusco RS vs. Nismo vs. Quaife vs. ATS vs. Wavetrac? Don't they all cost relatively the same? Are there diffs in the $800-$2000 range that eclipse others in performance? I'm just curious...
yes, there can be quite a difference in performance and weight per brand. by Specifying a single Diff they are assured that every is equal.
3. How does forcing us to use stock Brembo brakes make it more affordable? For those of us who do not own the Track model cars, we would have to buy stock Brembos. Unless we buy used Brembos, is a brand new stock brembo much less expensive than buying other aftermarket brands? If they left the brakes open, then we would buy whatever is most affordable. I don't think aftermarket brakes really vary in price enough that another racer would have an advantage if they spend gobs more money. Plus, if you want to run 14" or 15" brakes, that's your choice...you give up acceleration.
They are not forcing the Brembos, only allowing them. if you want to use the standard brake you can. If they open up to aftermarket systems, what will keep someone from buying a $10K super lightweight ceramic system if they have the money? Specified brakes are standard on almost every Spec series.
4. Heater core...if you remove all the tubing, then why not just allow us to remove the useless core? We have to meet weight anyway. It's like removing the speakers, but we have to leave the stereo system in.
I have heard this rule is being reviewed
5. Unrestricted exhaust, but the document mentions that the Nismo Cat-back is allowed. What does unrestricted mean? I thought it meant anything goes, so why mention the Nismo?
Selling point for Nissan since they are one of the series sponsors
6. Same comment as above, but applied to the flywheel.
7. Why is there a max spacer size, but no limitations on wheel offsets?
This is usually in there for a safety reason. large Spacers can cause issues.
8. "Any shift **** is allowed". Really? The rule book has to mention shift *****?
9. "Front and rear camber is unrestricted provided it is within the normal limits of adjustment. No modification to increase or decrease camber is allowed." This rule seems conflicting..."unrestricted" vs. "severly restricted".
Common terminology to say you can run anything within X range.
02-06-2012 | 11:56 AM
#135
17 Brake System
17.1 Brake System
a) Brake pads are unrestricted.
b) Brake rotors must be the same type, material, and dimensions as OEM. Brake rotors from
alternate companies may be used. Brake rotors may be cryogenically treated.
c) Steel braided brake lines may be used.
d) Disc brake backing plates may be removed.
e) The emergency brake level and/or cables and associated must remain functional.
b) Brake rotors must be the same type, material, and dimensions as OEM. Brake rotors from
alternate companies may be used. Brake rotors may be cryogenically treated.
c) Steel braided brake lines may be used.
d) Disc brake backing plates may be removed.
e) The emergency brake level and/or cables and associated must remain functional.
f) Anti-lock braking systems (ABS) may be disabled.
8. "Any shift **** is allowed". Really? The rule book has to mention shift *****?
Last edited by Zazz93; 02-06-2012 at 12:59 PM.
02-06-2012 | 12:00 PM
#136
There is a lot of time spent on this site, mostly wasted, about rules you want to have changed. The rules have been written, probably between Nissan and B F Goodrich, and accepted by NASA, so for the most part you are wasting your time talking about changes you want. The rules are the rules and you can choose to race under them or not. I am sure that these rules were well thought out over several months and they are the rules the series sponsors want in place. SCCA, World Challenge, ALMS, FIA, NASCAR and NASA all have rules for their racing so discussion between yourselves about the changes each of you want are a waste of time. Desired changes would have to be sent to the sponsoring parties and the sanction organization.
02-06-2012 | 12:19 PM
#137
There is a lot of time spent on this site, mostly wasted, about rules you want to have changed. The rules have been written, probably between Nissan and B F Goodrich, and accepted by NASA, so for the most part you are wasting your time talking about changes you want. The rules are the rules and you can choose to race under them or not. I am sure that these rules were well thought out over several months and they are the rules the series sponsors want in place. SCCA, World Challenge, ALMS, FIA, NASCAR and NASA all have rules for their racing so discussion between yourselves about the changes each of you want are a waste of time. Desired changes would have to be sent to the sponsoring parties and the sanction organization.
02-06-2012 | 01:13 PM
#140
I just hope they remember that this is NASA, and NOT SCCA...
But I will run what ever crazy rules they put out as long as the Contingency stays this generous!
So I will begin the search for a "Heater Core" and OEM front upper control arms to re-install
But I will run what ever crazy rules they put out as long as the Contingency stays this generous!
So I will begin the search for a "Heater Core" and OEM front upper control arms to re-install
There is a lot of time spent on this site, mostly wasted, about rules you want to have changed. The rules have been written, probably between Nissan and B F Goodrich, and accepted by NASA, so for the most part you are wasting your time talking about changes you want. The rules are the rules and you can choose to race under them or not. I am sure that these rules were well thought out over several months and they are the rules the series sponsors want in place. SCCA, World Challenge, ALMS, FIA, NASCAR and NASA all have rules for their racing so discussion between yourselves about the changes each of you want are a waste of time. Desired changes would have to be sent to the sponsoring parties and the sanction organization.