N80

I need some brake advice. I know this has been discussed but when I search this I get a lot of noise mostly about BBKs and bling. My primary interest is road course performance.

Here's the deal:

*Stock 2007 350Z non-Brembo brakes
*I do about 4-5 HPDE track events a year
*Street tires
*Just bought Carbotech XP10s for the front and XP8s on back
*Current OEM rotors have 60k miles on them. No cracks but discolored and grooved
*I have a small-ish track budget

Looking at rotors I find that they are all expensive for this car. All of the 'performance' rotors are either drilled, dimpled or slotted. A good many folks say none of those things provides any real performance benefit.

So is there anything to lose from buying basic OEM style (vented) rotors to use with these new Carbotechs?

03threefiftyz

iTrader: (25)

Rotors are a high wear item....go cheap IMO. You can get standard blanks for very nominal charge.

jnathan68

iTrader: (29)

Agree with this. Slotted might help a little bit (depending on who you ask) but not worth extra expense and as you probably already have read, stay away from drilled rotors.

Vivid Racing

iTrader: (67)

I'd suggest getting a set of quality blanks or slotted rotors, but you don't need to buy anything real expensive.

Just don't buy super cheap Chinese stuff and you'll be fine. Stick with a reputable brand.

DFW Z33

iTrader: (3)

Why stay away from drilled rotors? I am also looking at break upgrades, and havent read anything about drilled rotors being bad.

Vivid Racing

iTrader: (67)

Drilled rotors don't provide enough benefit in most cases to outweigh the negatives. The negatives are that they crack very quickly and they chew through pads. The cracks don't affect rotor usage until they get pretty gnarly, but it's ugly. And they eventually do get bad enough that the rotor has to be replaced.

N80

I'm not an expert but according to Carbotech the holes are often starting points for cracks. They also decrease the surface area for the pads to contact. They can decrease the weight of the rotor, which can decrease rotating mass, but that in turn means there is less mass to absorb and/or dissipate heat. Carbotech recommend against them with their pads.

And from the research I've done just putting a bunch of holes in the rotor doubles the price!

Some folks say drilled rotors are for looks only.

Yet, you see them on many race cars. (Maybe in order to market pretty rotors.)

Very confusing. In my case it makes no difference. I don't care what they look like and the holes are expensive.

Appreciate the advice given so far, but I'm not sure how to tell a cheap blank from a good one. EBC makes a fairly inexpensive blank. I may go with them.

There is a 'Wearever' brand at one of the chain autoparts stores for about $50 a rotor for a total of $200. Not sure of the quality on those. Probably not good and seems odd that a set of pads would cost almost twice as much as a set of rotors!

betamotorsports

iTrader: (1)

Nissan sells OEM rotors for under $100 each if you shop around. You can't beat that price and quality combination. I bought mine from Courtesy Nissan in Texas.

bmccann101

iTrader: (16)

thank God someone finally agrees and says this publicly.


Cheaper rotors have poorer run out, but thats about it.

I buy cheap and therfore also spring and replace them very frequently.. whereas i cant
imagine how many ppl are running around w 2k front only APS big kits that are limping around w the rotors close to death just to not have to pay big bucks to replace them.

Kcee91

iTrader: (2)

You gotta pay to play. If your not tracking or getting the braked hot enough, just go with what everyone is recommending. As for the question regarding cross drilled rotors, just get slotted as everyone is recommending. For example, in the GTR, people who track the stock Brembo's experience hairline cracks in the rotors from high temps.

N80

I am tracking the car and my local track is hard on the brakes. Its a two and a half mile course with three sections with hard braking from 100+. My brakes are frequently smoking after a 20 minute session.

Currently running EBC Yellowstuff pads on stock rotors. I've only had very mild fade a couple of times after 20 or 30 minute sessions.

I'm going with the Carbotechs because I would like better braking than the EBCs (which are about worn out) and it is time for new rotors...which is why I posted this.

It is tough to do this on the cheap.

Vivid Racing

iTrader: (67)

Drilled rotors DO provide some performance benefits, but like I said, for most applications the cons outweigh the pros. High dollar race teams replace the rotors very often.

EBC makes some decent rotors, which we carry.

bmccann101

iTrader: (16)

if you want to upgrade to a good set up, the Nismo Sport 370z brake kit Coz has over at ConceptZperformance.com are LEGIT.. i jsut saw a set go onto a G sedan at Intense and they are on my list.. plus youre using Nissan components. You can simply get cheap rotoros over n over for them, but you will have 14 ich brakes front and rear w vastly lowered rotor temps ( theres a magazine test on the somewhere online if you search) and far less fade...

i think were talking like 1800 bucks for front AND rear 14", brackets, calipers, and Stoptech rotors.. OR 1600 with OEM rotors. Remember, its all Nissan stuff.. ur good to go. Doesnt need a different proportioning or anything either.

davidv

iTrader: (2)

Thats because if you want better braking you go with big brakes - multiple pistons and larger rotors. All the rest (drilled for example) is trivial.

reserved

iTrader: (18)

I guess I'm the outlier here, but I use Stoptech aerorotors (slotted). To me, its worth the extra $$$. They last a LONG time. I can get 10-15 weekends out of them, and that includes tracks like CMP which as the OP says, is tough on brakes.

mhoward1

Another decent brand of not purely cheap rotors are the Beck-Arney mid range. You can get them just about anywhere.

As far as the Drilled vs not...The more mass you have, the better they dissipate heat. In the “old days” the pad material used would vaporize and gas out. The combination of this and excessive material wear would cause a layer between the pad and the rotor. Performance brake makers started to make slotted rotors to sweep the pads. Most modern pad materials no longer gas out so slotted doesn’t gain you anything other than looks. High end race teams use them because they tend to use exotic brake materials that can have a slick build up. They also help water dissipation in rain.

The misconception that drilling rotors help cooling seems to be persistent. In automotive applications they do nothing to help cooling since no air flow can occur. The original cross drilled rotor was mainly made for one reason, weight savings. Even today you see them on many high end teams cars where weight is critical down to the ounce. As a performance gain they aren’t used nearly as much, as a matter of fact F1, NASCAR, and ALMS only use slotted or full blanks. Drilled rotors also have a huge flaw, the drilling causes micro-fractures. These are the starting points for larger cracks as the rotor is heat cycled. Because the look was popularized back in the 60’s and 70’s by high end race teams they are continued to be made and sold, but even the manufacturers know they they are not the best for high performance braking systems.

Power Slot:
"At one time the conventional wisdom in racing circles was to cross-drill brake rotors to aid cooling and eliminate the gas emitted by brake pads. However, today's elite teams in open wheel, Indy and Trans Am racing are moving away from crack prone, cross-drilled brake rotors in favor of rotors modified with a fatigue resistant slotting process."

Performance Friction: "Anyone that tells you that drilling makes the disc run cooler is smoking crack."

Stop Tech:
"StopTech provides rotors slotted, drilled or plain. For most performance applications slotted is the preferred choice. Slotting helps wipe away debris from between the pad and rotor as well as increasing the "bite" characteristics of the pad. A drilled rotor provides the same type of benefit, but is more susceptible to cracking under severe usage. Many customers prefer the look of a drilled rotor and for street and occasional light duty track use they will work fine. For more severe applications, we recommend slotted rotors." (Note that even though Stop Tech sells both drilled and slotted rotors they do not recommend drilled rotors for severe applications.)

Baer:
"What are the benefits to Crossdrilling, Slotting, and Zinc-Washing my rotors? In years past, crossdrilling and/or Slotting the rotor for racing purposes was beneficial by providing a way to expel the gasses created when the bonding agents employed to manufacture the pads...However, with today's race pad technology, 'outgassing' is no longer much of a concern...Slotted surfaces are what Baer recommends for track only use. Slotted only rotors are offered as an option for any of Baer's offerings."

Wilwood:
Q: Why are some rotors drilled or slotted?
A: Rotors are drilled to reduce rotating weight, an issue near and dear to racers searching for ways to minimize unsprung weight. Drilling diminishes a rotor's durability and cooling capacity though."


If you really want the best overall performance then look for this feature: curved internal venting. When a vented disc is spinning, it pulls air from the center of the disc, through the channels (which are called vanes), and out the rim of the rotor. Curved vanes move cooling air more efficiently than straight vanes, which are less expensive to manufacture. This cooling air moves in a radial direction.

OK, I am off my soapbox now.

N80

Excellent write up Marty. Thanks.

Ronin82

iTrader: (4)

interesting ^^^^

laze1

iTrader: (17)

I run OEM style Brembo Blanks: Centric Premium from Rock Auto.com

I can run 6 months or so on them in W2W conditions using Carbotech RP2 or XP10 or 12 pads...

CENTRIC Part # 12542077 Std Brakes; Rear $55.79

CENTRIC Part # 12542079 Brembo Brakes; Rear $56.79

CENTRIC Part # 12542074 Std Brakes; Front $60.79

CENTRIC Part # 12542076 Brembo Brakes; Front $64.79

N80

That's what I needed to know. I'll go with Centric or EBC blanks, whichever is less!