Difference in driving technique and car set up between "short" and "long" tracks
So last weekend I did a track day on a very technical and short track with lots of high degree turns and harpins. The experience was totally different compared to Hungaroring. What tips would you guys have for driving and setting the 350Z up for this type of a track?
- less camber and more front -toe and rear +toe?
- will I be quicker if I don't lose traction at all or with a little bit of slipping in corners (tires squelling)
- should tire pressure be lower compared to faster tracks with less turns?
- should sway bars and antiroll bars be stiffer, softer or just the same? (not asking about the balance here but overall)
- any other tips?
- less camber and more front -toe and rear +toe?
- will I be quicker if I don't lose traction at all or with a little bit of slipping in corners (tires squelling)
- should tire pressure be lower compared to faster tracks with less turns?
- should sway bars and antiroll bars be stiffer, softer or just the same? (not asking about the balance here but overall)
- any other tips?
Its all depends on personal driving reallly. Since this is your first time on a tight track, i would suggest keep going back and tweak your car as you go. What my set up is might not work for your driving style.
Trial and error my friend. Trial and error. In a honestly, a tight track set up should be similar to one with a lot of straightaway. Corner grip is corner grip, and during the straight, unless youre making serious power, you wont be spinning the tires.
Trial and error my friend. Trial and error. In a honestly, a tight track set up should be similar to one with a lot of straightaway. Corner grip is corner grip, and during the straight, unless youre making serious power, you wont be spinning the tires.
If you are able to drive with in 0.1 each lap consistently, then it is time to look at setup change.
Note where you feel the car is lacking grip and start from there. There is no set formula here. Take tire temp data across the tread patch and see what you find. Tire temp should be consistent, if not adjust alignment to correct. Play with damper settings and note change in feeling and lap time.
Note where you feel the car is lacking grip and start from there. There is no set formula here. Take tire temp data across the tread patch and see what you find. Tire temp should be consistent, if not adjust alignment to correct. Play with damper settings and note change in feeling and lap time.
But on the short and technical track with a lot of tight turns and harpins, don't you want the car to oversteer a bit more than on a longer and faster track? I would.
So how to set it up and and how different would the set up be between these tracks? e.g. more toe out, softer front with slightly less tire pressure at the front to get that turn in oversteer ?
So how to set it up and and how different would the set up be between these tracks? e.g. more toe out, softer front with slightly less tire pressure at the front to get that turn in oversteer ?
Last edited by GodISmE; Sep 7, 2016 at 06:20 PM.
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The answers are scattered throughout this thread, but ultimately, setups are dependent on individual driving styles, pyrometer data and overall knowledge of each track, tires and running conditions. And speaking as a racer who likes a "loose" setup with a bit of oversteer, I'll still examine which turns have the greatest effect on overall times, as well as which turns are best to pass on. Depending on my priorities, I may set the Z up for maximizing either qualifying or race.
There's no way to provide much guidance on setup except to say early on, take a close look at pyrometer data FIRST. Make sure you get in a good, hard session and bring the car in HOT. Each corner of the car should tell a story about how the tires are working and give you a better idea of what to adjust. It also helps to use one type of tire, so you build a knowledge bank of what those particular tires like and don't like.
There's no way to provide much guidance on setup except to say early on, take a close look at pyrometer data FIRST. Make sure you get in a good, hard session and bring the car in HOT. Each corner of the car should tell a story about how the tires are working and give you a better idea of what to adjust. It also helps to use one type of tire, so you build a knowledge bank of what those particular tires like and don't like.
I would probably look into some autocross setups for tighter corners. You can also do the chalk method for marking the tire to see where to set your pressure, on a tight course you are going to be feeding the car more steering input.
Now for driving on a tight course; I like to use a lot late apexes. That is what I generally do at autocross, I will turn in late and go very wide to set me up for more of a straight shot through a corner. This approach is better for corners that tighten up at the end of the turn and/or have another corner immediately after it. Some corners will be pinched at the beginning and progressively widen up, you can use a general out-in-out method and hit the apex as normal. A little bit of rear rotation is good but nothing excessive. sometimes you will catch the front pushing, a little tap of the brakes will help get some grip over the front axle.
I went to a little time attack event in Socal at a VERY small tight track. I set fastest of the day. Look at the line I take, it may help seeing what approach to take. I would still call myself an amateur driver though. Video should be set to 8:11
My car is very stock though, stock everything with 200 UTQG 245/340/18 Direzzas on the car on 35th anniversary wheels. This is probably a factor with driving style.
Now for driving on a tight course; I like to use a lot late apexes. That is what I generally do at autocross, I will turn in late and go very wide to set me up for more of a straight shot through a corner. This approach is better for corners that tighten up at the end of the turn and/or have another corner immediately after it. Some corners will be pinched at the beginning and progressively widen up, you can use a general out-in-out method and hit the apex as normal. A little bit of rear rotation is good but nothing excessive. sometimes you will catch the front pushing, a little tap of the brakes will help get some grip over the front axle.
I went to a little time attack event in Socal at a VERY small tight track. I set fastest of the day. Look at the line I take, it may help seeing what approach to take. I would still call myself an amateur driver though. Video should be set to 8:11
My car is very stock though, stock everything with 200 UTQG 245/340/18 Direzzas on the car on 35th anniversary wheels. This is probably a factor with driving style.
Ok, quick question on how to set the rake- where do I measure the height to get the 13mm rake? Top of wheel arches and the difference should be 13 mm?
PS. Do you guys use left foot braking on such tracks as sometimes you can go through the whole course in one gear!!
PS. Do you guys use left foot braking on such tracks as sometimes you can go through the whole course in one gear!!
Last edited by GodISmE; Sep 8, 2016 at 11:08 AM.
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