I need better tires for autocross. A fellow Z guy had Hoosier 265/35r18s all the way around at the track today. They stuck very well for him.

So, my questions are: equal size, or 245/275?

Are these 245/275 going to fit on standard Rays Track wheels?

AS303 or AS304?

Any input appreciated!

 

I'm running 275/35-18 304s on all four corners... I right foot brake, so the Ice Mode problem hasn't been a factor. I've read mixed reviews on the 304... after Sunday's event, I'm a happy 304 owner. I ran 63/50, pyrometer showed a 6 degree difference across the tread up front... and I promptly forgot what the rears read, but they weren't an issue.

I'll be interested to see what you end up doing... I don't think either choice will disappoint you. What tires are you going to use for the track days?


Brian

 

Very good question. I intend to only do track days two or three times this year due to the cost. With that in mind, I would consider using these for that, as well. But, I would buy for autocross since I'll be doing that more often. The rubber compounds are different (A vs. R), I assume, so if track days would damage them I would probably have to resort to street tires for track days.

If you're doing 275's all around, I might consider doing that as well. If they fit on your wheels, they should fit on mine. Do you know what sizes Mark is running? Same as yours?

 

I wonder how much of a compromise the R compound would be for A/X? Going that direction would give you a track tire and hopefully, an A/X tire as well. I have to say, I was surprised at how well the 275/35-18 fit on my 8" wheel, no doubt 8.5 rear would be better.

If I remember correctly Mark's running a 17 X 9 wheel with 275s in Street Mod 2.

 

I'm running 265/35-18 on my performance size wheels (8" wide all around). My tires are Kumho BTW, so not exactly the same.

I'd definitely recommend going to the same tire size on all four wheels (at least for AutoX).

Can't help with the compound choice though, but after a couple track days on street tires, I don't think the stock brakes can handle R compound tires on a big course. If you are sticking with the stock brakes then you may also want to stick with street tires on the big tracks, just to save the brakes a bit. I haven't upgraded my fluid or pads though, so that may make enough of a difference to make R compound OK. Anyway, just more things to consider.

-D'oh!

 

Buub,

Are we going to see you on race rubber this Sunday?

BC

 

If you are going to do track days then definitely go for the Rs, and use those for autocross too. You'll tear A's up and not be able to autocross them. That's still a possibility with the R's, but you'll have a better chance at them lasting. The grip loss for autocross should be minimal, when you start competing nationaly then consider different tires for each sport, for EACH EVENT!

 

Heh, not. I spend too much money on this as it is!

Yes, I talked with the folks at Fordahl Motorsports, and he agreed that I should go with Rs, so I ordered a set of four 275/35R18s from him.

No, unfortunately I will not have these tires by this weekend. He anticipates the order going out on Friday (multi-tire Hoosiers order -- cheaper that way).

And yes, I have been brake pad challenged on even street tires. I chewed through my Ultimates/Porterfields in only two full track days. I was practically driving home on the metal. I completely destroyed the pads before the end of the second track day, and had to quit about an hour early.

I didn't have any problems with the brake fluid, however -- no complaints there. If I was going national, I'd switch to Motul, but for half the price, ATE SB is more than enough for my current level of driving. For what it's worth, I did cut off the dust shields around the rear wheel discs, to let them breathe better.

 

Buub,

Then you'll be set for competing at the NWDE event in Everett on the 6th?

My car's all back together for Sunday's SCCA event at Bremerton... even as nice as my new friend is (Gary the tow truck guy), I hope to make it home under my Z's own power. Thanks again for hanging out... you must've been late getting home.

BC

 

Hey, no problem. It was looking pretty lonely with your car sitting up on the jack, and nobody else around. I almost expected to see a tumbleweed roll by.

Yes, we were debating about Gary the two truck guy while you were loading up. He was quite the talker. He seemed to have quite a story to tell! Obviously, he should be an author because his story-telling seemed to interfere with his ability to load your car onto the tow truck in less than 20 minutes. Maybe we'll see him next to Tom Clancy some day.

6th in Everett, you say? Yes, I'll be I can make that. I expect to get much better times with a car that stays stuck to the pavement! I did OK last time, but less than I wanted. I finished mid-pack in the novice despite the fact that I couldn't keep the car straight. New tires will be a welcome change.

 

is it really even beneficial to run hoosiers at autox? will they ever get hot enough to be sticky?

 

It's a very good question. My answer is this:

There were three Z's at the last autox. Mine, BA Cutler's, and a third guy named Mark.

Mark has his tuned like crazy. He has camber bars and all kinds of other stuff. He's running 265 Kumhos all the way around (I think that's the right size). He placed first in whatever mod category he was running last Sunday.

Mr. Cutler is a bit less experienced than Mark with his Z at autocross, I think (just going from memory here), and running in a less modified class. BAC is running 275 Hoosiers all the way around. He also placed first in his class on Sunday.

Me? I sucked. But I have old street tires that couldn't hang onto the pavement. Of course, I may put new Hoosiers on there and continue to suck, but my hope is that I'll suck less. :-)

In other words, I don't know if they will get "hot enough" to really stick their best, but they certainly didn't hurt either of the other two Zs last Sunday.

Edit:
I just looked at the final results, and it appears that Mark ended up in 3rd out of 21 in Time Only in the afternoon (when I was there). He was first at one point, but it looks like a couple snuck in front of him by the end.

 

Yes, running hoosier's or kumhos in an autocross makes a world of difference.

Up until recently Hoosier's in most cases have been faster than kumhos, but with the 710 that may have changed. But the 710 isn't available now due to a recal.

 

Buub,
what club do you go out with at SIR (nee PR)?

Alex

 

The reason I call it Pacific Raceways (PR), cumbersom as it is, is because of the awful care the SIR people took of the track. They basically let it waste away to crap while it was under their care. When the lease expired, and the PR people took it back, they started actually fixing it back up. The track is now back in the hands of people who care about it. Hence, SIR = Bad Guys, PR = Good Guys.

Anywa, back to the question... :-)

I went my first time with the Z-Car Club (http://www.zccw.org/). The problem is, most of the ZCCW guys are more like weekend mechanic types. Nothing wrong with that, but it makes it hard to get enough people to schedule a track day.

After I had been there once, I was on their active driver list. Every now and then Don Kitch will send out an email for returning drivers, offering a full track day, because something else got cancelled. I usually go to these because it's a lot less money per hour than the half track days.

You could probably just email them and ask to be added to the returning drivers list, if you have been there before. Otherwise, more race-oriented clubs seem to go more often, like the NSX guys and the BMW guys. I think even the Miata guys going frequently because, of course, Miatas are like the Swiss Army Knife of club racing cars.

 

Just curious who you go out with. I race out there with SCCA, I am also an instructor with the BMW Club. You might want to joint the BMW club, they have about 6 days a year out there. The other club you might want to check with is the Alfa club, they are out there about 6times a year as well.

Alex

 

I do autocross on my own. I guess I do track days on my own, as well, apart from the first one.

You race "with SCCA"? How so? Does the SCCA set up specific days for SCCA members or something?

Do you think the BMW guys would accept a 350Z in their midst? :-) OK, I wish I also had an M3, does that count?

 

I roadrace with SCCA, currently we are building a 350Z for the Touring 2 (T2) class. Hopefully I will have it done in the next 6-8weeks.

SCCA does not have any "lapping" days. They do have Solo 1 where you run by yourself and are timed (like Auto X but on the Track), however you have to have a minimum of a half cage (ie: rollbar) in the car to run.

The BMW club will let you run, you just have to be a member, cost $35 a year and worth it.

I know what you mean about the M3. I sold my E363 M3 racecar and kind of have sellers remorse, I really miss it. The 350Z is a nice car, just not an M3....

 

Hmm... now you have me intrigued about Solo 1. I assume you just get a few runs and that's it, like Solo 2, so it's less than $50 to come compete?

Half cage... OK, who around here can install one of those? :-)

Yeah, I actually had a deposit down on the new M3 when it first came out. The waiting list was a year long, though, and by the time my name came up, I had decided it was just too much money to justify. Which is when I bought the Z. The new 3 series is still a damn beautiful car, though. Best looking car BMW makes, IMHO.

 

See Speedware Motorsports for the rollbar, they are building the cage for my racecar. You can get them at 425-869-5680, tell them I sent you and they will take good care of you.

Dont know what the exact cost of an entry is in Solo 1 but check the NWR SCCA website, should have entry fees listed. You get more runs than at an Autocross....

The new M3 is a great car, just not a fantastic car, the looks and the motor are the best part. Personally I think the E36 M3 was more of a drivers car and definately handles better, the E46 M3 would be great if it weighted 400lbs less....