The Toyo RA-1s I bought exactly two months ago (for $1,100) are pretty much toast. I got 245/40/18s all the way around. They have less than 2,000 miles on them, only 425 on the track from five track days, three at SP, two at BeaveRun. And the real kicker: they didn't lower my lap times compared to the S-03s or the RE040s! I had gotten into the 1:31 range at Summit Point a couple of times with the old tires, but never did with the RA-1s.

My tire history:
Stock RE040: 11,500 miles, 13 track days, 1,375 track miles. Tread left when replaced.
Bridgestone S-O3s: $800, 5,000 miles, 10 track days, 850 track miles.
RA-1: $1,100, 2,000 miles, 5 track days, 425 track miles.
Best time ever at SP: 1:31.64 on S-03s.
Best time on RA-1s: 1:32.13, which ties my second-best lap on the S-O3s.
Best time on RE040s: 1:32.29

Back to the RA-1s: After two days at BeaveRun with NASA in early June, the left side, and particularly the front left, were a lot more worn than the right (no surprise), and I was about to have them flipped on the rims, to switch left for right, when I noticed cords showing through on the front left!

So I called my good buddy at Radial Tire, and he said to come down and he'd take a look. Long story short, he flipped the right side tires to the rears, and gave me two used Pilot Sports (OEM size) for the front to get me to the track this Friday. Good guy!

But he said I should be taking 5 or 6 seconds off my laps with the RA-1s. So maybe I'm not as good a driver as I thought.

While I was at Radial, I ran into a guy who recognized me from a track event, and we compared notes about BeaveRun. A light went on in my head: turn 10 at BeaveRun is probably what killed the left front: it's a steep uphill right-hander, and I was definitely scrubbing a lot through there.

But even so, there isn't a whole lot left on the other three tires. I may get another 1,000 miles out of them, even though my tire guy said they should wear better than the S-03s.

So I don't know what's going on. I'm willing to grant that not getting better times on the RA-1s is my fault, and I'll continue trying to "tighten the nut behind the wheel." On the rears the 245/40/18s are 3.6% smaller than stock, and that required me to change my shift points, and also changed the speedo reading, so I may not have pushed as hard as I could have, because it looked like I was going faster when I wasn't.

But I think I should have gotten some improvement in my times, and wear should have been better, according to my guy, too. So I'm confused. (Not necessarily an unusual condition.) In any case, I can't afford $5,000 - $6,000 in tires per year, so I'm looking for longer-wearing (or at least less expensive) options.

So, does anyone have any comparable/different experience with the RA-1s or want to suggest other options for a reasonably priced, reasonably long-wearing tire that will perform decently on track? If I'm going to go through two or three sets a year, they need to be under $150 each.

Finally, I put new dba one-piece slotted rotors (from BJ) on the fronts over the weekend. So far so good. Get a load of the cracks in the old ones!

 

Pix:

 

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James - nice rotors! What pads are you using?

I had the Toyo RA-1s when we were up at MO. I used them for that DE another DE at MO and 2 races at Blackhawk then they were corded. However, MO had just put the groovs in the concrete up there so it was pretty hard on them. Did you have them shaved before you started tracking them?

 

Jason,

With over 18,000 miles, (2,655 on track) those rotors have seen the stock pads, three sets of Ferodo DS2500s, and two sets of Carbotech Panther Pluses. I like the Panthers, but I used them up pretty quickly. I may try the Panther XP8 or XP9 next.

I think some brake cooling is definitely needed. Any recommendations?

So how many days/miles did you get out of your RA-1s?

Mine weren't shaved or heat cycled. Should I expect that to make a big difference?

 

James, have you considered trying a different suspension? Before I swapped mine out, I tended to melt the front left tire as well. However, now I have near even tire wear between the left and right.

As for pads, you know I stick by the Cobalt VRs... something I didn't know until recently is that Carbotech uses only a 3-4 ton press to mold the pad material, while Cobalt uses a 10 ton press. The result is a more dense (less porous) pad that wears much better.

 

Nice job on the rotors there!!! Looks like fun...

 

I've been considering RA1's...

Shaving them gives you full slicks with fresh compound chemistry. Running them with treads doesn't seem like you used them to their maximum capability since by the time they wear down, the life of the compound has probably diminished past peak performance.

While that *may* partially answer why you didn't gain any advantage from using race tires vs street tires -- that doesn't explain why you wore them out so quickly. Suspension or driving habits may be the case as mentioned above. ...how about alignment?

 

Hi Jim,

It's Jim with the black RSA. Maybe Jim911 will chime in here also, but I think you and I started with the RA-1s on the exact same day (Seat Time) as you. Since then, I have put on 24 heat cycles and probably have 20 more left, maybe more. I had Paul flip them at 20 heat cycles two weeks ago. Paul said they looked good, but I could drive them a bit harder. I am sliding in almost every corner, but I am sure there is more to push. On that note, with my Yoko 032Rs, I was running around 1:33s, my best time so far with the RA-1 is 1:30:15, with a bit of traffic. However, I have been running consistent 1:30s, so I lost 3 seconds from R tires, so I would think if I were coming off streets there would be a bigger difference. Apparently my car is capable of 1:27s, so I still have time to find. Right now I am just trying to drive smooth 1:30s, and then will press onward.

So I have been more than pleased with the RA-1s, and will be going to shaved from this full tread next time. I have not run BRun, so that could be part of it. About eight of those heat cycles were at VIR though.

Good Luck and I will see you Friday,

Jim

 

Jim,

By heat cycle, you mean a 20- or 30-minute session on track, right? Not a whole day?

 

Yes, when the tire gets up to temp, so about 4 heat cycles per day for 5 track days. Now that I think about it.....2 x 4 Seat Times, plus 2 x 4 -2 (rain) FATTs, plus 3 days x 3 SP w/ PCA, plus 2 days with Mazda VIR x4 = 32, damn, I am at 32 cycles, I need to keep up better with this stuff. So 28 before they were flipped, so I have at least 24 cycles left, or about 6 days, probably a bit more since there is still rubber left on the side that got flipped.

Hope this helps..... I am thinking your alignment is off as some have suggested, or BR chewed the s*it out of them!

 

Are you sliding a lot? I'm using 245/45-17 Hoosiers rear (which I bought used, but like new) and Kuhmo Victorracers (245/40-17 front) and have 5 track days and about 15 autocrosses, plus about 400-500 street miles on them, and they just refuse to wear down.

 

2003z, Hoosiers are usually only good for several heat cycles (10)... so while you might have plenty of rubber, the compound will have lost a lot of it's gripping properties...

 

they still work good with the kuhmos, but this weekend will probably be their last autocross. I've got a set of 275/40 victoracers that have been tempting me for months!
(edited for spelling only)

 

Okay, if we're counting heat cycles, I've run 16 sessions on them, but two or three were wet and slow, so probably not fully heated. Fourteen heat cycles in five days isn't good enough for me. I would be happy with the type of wear forklift is getting, but what I've experienced sucks.

Maybe if really was BeaveRun's turn 10 that killed the front left, and I can get some more from the remaining two, I'll have learned a lesson, and it'll be worth it.

 

Get some Hoosiers. I'm running 1:26s at SPR on old beat up R3SO4s in 245/40-18. With fresh Ecsta MX street tires I was in the 1:29 range. I think with fresh Hoosiers I will be in the 1:25s.

Car is stock except for brakes.

 

What pressures are you running?

 

An instructor I talk to a lot at the events I go to said that he got over 15 track weekends (over 1 year) out of 1 set of RA1s on his E36 M3 (similar weight). I know that he was running 2:22s at VIR on a stock car except for some suspension mods. I know the cars can't be directly compared, but I have heard nothing but great things about the longevity of the RA1s compared to other tires.

 

I've run RA-1's on previous cars. I'd get about 8-10 days out of them and they were significantly faster than my falken azenis street tires. Toyo sugguest flipping them on the rim about half way through their life and to run them with at least 3 degrees negative camber. For me they've always been the cheapest alternative race tire. Maybe you got a bad batch.. strange.
perhaps you can try the kumho's. They're similarly priced, but don't last anywhere near as long.

 

If you didn't shave or heat cycle the tires before tracking them, you killed the tire the first time you tracked it.

RA-1's come with 10/32nds of tread I think, you need to shave them down to 4/32nd's for dry use. They will actually last LONGER than not shaving them. By leaving an R Comp tire at full tread depth you cause a ton of tread block squirm. You also end up building up a tremendous ammount of heat in the tire.

Heat cylcling means running in the tire moderately to make sure the bonds in the rubber solidify. Most people have it done by a machine. They don't just heat the tire, but they put it on a rim and against a roller so it simulates the stretching and friction that a tire goes through on the street. The stretching and friction generate the heat necessary. The tire then needs to sit for at least 48 hours. You can also rund the car on the street for about 100 miles at a 6/10ths pace, but machine cycling is the only way to do it evenly although I have done it on the car a few times. You can't do it your first session on the track because the tire needs to sit for 48 hours after.

I was running 275 RA-1's on the back and 245's up front on my Z when I had it. It dropped my lap times 6-7 seconds vs S0-3's on 2:00 minute/lap tracks. I was able to get about 9 track days out of my RA-1s and they never seemed to slow until you hit the cords!!