Hate to start a second thread about this, but I don't think (hope?)my subject line in the first was suitably generic.

Is there anyone out there with a Wilwood-based BBK who is doing real track time - either at the instructor or advanced levels of HPDE? Anyone?

I'm torn between two Wilwood-based kits (evolution - 4 pot, 13" & 350zbrakes - 6 pot, 13.6") and the StopTech (13" 4 pot). All use 1.25" rotors. At some point, in some thread, Evolution claimed their 13" kit was Wilwood's 'Official' 350 kit. 350zbrakes.com is 'some guy' (Russell - no offense intended) who has apparently been active with the 300z crowd and put together this kit. It is the largest rotor that can fit under the seventeen inch oem wheels.

While StopTech's published data and their support and contributions to various BBS makes me feel good, why shouldn't I believe the Wilwood kits (with 30+ years of racing brake experience) will perform at least as well?

ahm

 

You may find more replies if you post your question on twinturbo.net. I know of a few 300ZX guys that run w/o problems w/ Russell's kit, despite the 300ZX TT being heavier and the rotors in his 300ZX kit are smaller than the rotors in his 350z kit.

I also know of a guy in a 94 Maxima SE w/ a Wilwood kit (not Russell's) that have had no problems. I also know flyinmiata.com sells a Wilwood BBK.

Michael.

 

Thanks Michael, but I'm really looking for experience with the 350. I've had a good exchange with Russell about the kit, and it sounds promising, but I really need to hear from other folks who've had some hard days on it and can vouch for its performance. Its not a slam on Russell - I just want to hear someone else say they're happy with the money they've spent, and can explain what it is they expected and received from the kit.

I'm not looking for the biggest, baddest thing out there - I want to know that the horkers are going to pull me down from speed, lap after lap. I want to know that there are pad compounds that will make me happy on the track, and on the street. And lastly, I want to know that if I have a problem, the company I buy from can support the product.

Bottom line - so far, only StopTech has real live customers I've spoken to who were looking for the same thing I am, and have been happy with the product as delivered to them. I just don't have any data on customers of these other products. I honestly wonder if these other kits are better than the StopTechs. I think they might be - I just don't have any evidence other than that provided by the vendor. And really - no offense intended at Russell or evolution - they've got something to sell. I want to hear from satisfied customers. The kind of customer I am - discerning and demanding. So unless I do, it doesn't seem like I've got any choice - StopTech (or OEM brembos if some pop up for sale by some miracle).

ahm

 

I love Russell's BBK. I have three track days and it is great. One day the temperature was 94 outside and the system was stady and firm under breaking from 125 down to 75MPH.

I love them. Can't say enough about the breaking power and consistency.

 

Ask for customer references from the vendors. If they can't provide them, they should at least be able to provide a list of re-sellers that will have them.

Also - find out if Stop Tech produces their own hardware or re-badges another manufacturer (i.e. Stillen/AP Racing). I think Wilwood makes their own, but I'm not sure.

I've heard nothing but good things about either system - but like you said, StopTech has the advantage of 1st out of the gate with the 350Z kit.

-Stacy
Track Events Coordinator
Triangle Z Club

 

Then why not go with the StopTechs?

Don't get me wrong, I believe that Wilwood makes good components (tons of SCCA racers swear by them,) and I'm a huge believer in doing research before you buy, but I really don't think you should have to go through this much trouble to get information from manufacturers, or referals on a product.

It seems to me that the Evolution Wilwood kit and the 350zbrakes Wilwood kit are both quality products, but in my opinion, the fact that you're having to try this hard to find that out and convince yourself of it says something.

Good luck with your decision either way. Sorry I can't offer any firsthand experience on Wilwood, but I felt compelled to enter the discussion as I went through this exact same process earlier this year.

I really don't think you can go wrong with a Stoptech kit or either of the Wilwood kits that you're looking at.

Gary

 

Gary - I agree with you. I just feel bad that these vendors are offering potentially better options than the StopTech, but since only the blingbling crowd seems to be buying them, I can't determine their effectiveness.

I want to give them a fair shake, but as you said, if getting customer references is like pulling teeth, I just can't justify the risk. StopTech it is.

 

I have not seen anybody in a Z or G car running the wilwoods at the track so far, but there have not been a lot cars out there with BBK to check on. I have been using the 14.1" Stoptech BBK on 18" Nismo wheels through 6 track events now, and they have been just super. Note that the G is a couple hundred pounds heavier than the Z as well.

 

amolaver,
What are you concerns with our kits? The kit we would sell you for your car would be identical to the kits we run on Speed World Challenge race cars. The only difference would be the piston sizes in the calipers. They are perfect for the track, yet completely streetable. Our kits have proven themselves time and again, and represent the best value on the market. Also, we manufacture our own parts...no rebadging anything. In fact, we supply Toyota Racing Development (TRD) with brakes. They rebadge our kits with the TRD logo!

Give me a call if you want to talk. I'll give you any info you need, and I won't ******** you. 310-325-4799 x104. As my customers said on these forums, our kits our top notch. I personally also go out of my way to keep these guys running smooth and happy.

 

I can substantiate J Ritts statements. I have personally installed no less than 15 Stoptech front and rear kits, and driven those customers cars at the track(nice, huh?) Provided you follow the instructions to the "T", especially the rotor prep before installation, and the pad bed in procedure, you can expect LONG life, and incredible performance out of Stoptechs brakes

 

I was in the same boat for some time....which front BBK to buy? I eventually ordered the 14" Stoptech's and probably paid at least $400 more for the Stoptech's than the comparable sized Wilwoods. I can't remember exactly how much Wilwoods go for.

From what I understand, both the Stoptech and the Wilwood kits are built from parts that are manufaturers by different companies. IIRC, Stoptech calipers are manufactured in Taiwan and the rotors are German made. I believe Stoptech designs and develops the specifications for their brake systems themselves, and the manufacturers build them to those specifications. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wilwoods were carefully selected components from the Wilwood catalog for an application specific to the Z. If you're smart enough and had a whole lot of time on your hands, you could probably determine a piston size and rotor combo that is based on the OEM design (balance). Then you can order the rotors and calipers parts from Wilwood. I would find designing and manufacturing the brackets to be the most difficult task. Based on what I understand how brakes are designed and built, there's no way in hell am I going to do that just for my own application.

Mainly, I'm went with Stoptech because I have an engineering background, and I like the fact that they have so many technical papers that exhibit their knowledge of the product they sell. I could have easily purchased a Wilwood kit, in fact, I think the Wilwoods look nicer.

Yesterday, I did see a couple Wilwood kits at the ClubZ track event. I also saw a lot of AP Racing and Stoptech kits. Every owner I met seemed pretty happy with their kits.

 

Have you considered the AP Racing kit by Stillen Brake Pros? I am trying to find the best BBK for track use as well and they are one of my top picks. After all, AP calipers are probably one of the most widely used brand of calipers in JGTC.

Has anyone here used the AP Racing kit?

There are also the new Grex kits, they look nice and are reasonably priced but I am wondering how they will perform on the track compared to the other companies, because ultimately performance is by far the most important aspect to me.

 

I'll throw in my 2 cents here as well. I'm the kind of person you are looking for advice from (HPDE instructor with about 40 track days on my Z with StopTechs). While my car has the StopTech 13" kit, I've seen and driven just about every manufacturers kit there is (not necessariily on a Z though).

The quality of the components is top notch for both the StopTech and Wilwood brakes. The difference is how far down the engineering goes. Wilwood sells catalog parts that anyone can purchase to put together a car specific kit. If the person doing this really knows their stuff, you can end up with a great kit, if they don't your braking performance could be much worse than stock. This stuff isn't trivial. There are many variables to match simultaneously - read the StopTech white papers here:
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...erformance.htm
and here:
http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/...ons_122701.htm

StopTech does the engineering all the way down to the specific application and (IMHO) does it very well. They don't rush a kit to the market if it doesn't trully work and they really know how to do this stuff. If you aren't ready to do your own brake engineering or don't 110% trust that this Russel guy knows his stuff inside and out, I would go with the StopTechs.

But I'm not trying to know the Wilwood stuff - hey I build a formula SAE car in college with Wilwood brakes and they were great, but we engineered the whole car from start to finish and knew exactly what we needed for the braking system.

 

I had considered Stillen's AP kit, but after researching the customer service record from Stillen, I steered clear. I don't have any personal experience with Stillen, so this is just based on what I've read through these forums. Like I mentioned earlier, I saw quite a few cars outfitted with the AP kits at Thunderhill, so they must be quite reputable.

I went with the 14" kit mainly because I wanted to stick with a high performance street pad, and not have to change it for the track vs street. I knew the 13" BBK would have sufficed since it is used widely by experienced track drivers and the Z race teams. I'm just hoping my pads will last longer with the lower operating temps and eventually make the extra $500 worth it. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if I lost 10 hp with the heavier rotors.

 

Really? Can you give me some more details on this?

I was thinking the same thing, once you have had them installed and have tried them out could you post a review.
I am curious to see how the bigger rotors will effect hp.

I am still leading toward the AP's because I had a bad experiance with STOPTECH at SEMA this year.

Also both the Xanavi and Motul Z33 in JGTC along with a number of other JGTC cars run AP calipers.

Hope you choice works out good for you.

 

Jason, glad to see a post from you! You've been quiet for a while. You HELPED built a Formula SAE car? AWESOME!!!!!

I also am pleased with my Stoptech 13.1" F kit.....especially since this year I added OEM rear Track Brembos.

That being said, I agree that Stoptech needs to loose their self righteous attitude........I'll spare you my details.

If I were running 18" wheels, I would go with the AP BBK.

 

What would be the reasons that you would go for the AP's?

Just trying to find out as much as I can.

 

6 piston front calipers & a 4 piston rear that actually improves rear braking.

Word on the street is that Stoptechs 14" rear is purely for BLING......try finding track pads for them.......

 

I'm not sure what problems other people have had with Stoptech's customer service but an the only occasion I had a problem, I was passed straight away to an engineer and then to J Ritt since he has the 350Z experience. I've no complainst about my brakes (aside from melting the still stock rears) and the service I recieved was absolutely topnotch.

The reason I didn't get the Willwood upgrade was for reasons that were already mentioned, they build the components but anyone can throw them toghether and sell a BBK. Without proper piston sizing (for master cylinder as well as front to rear balance) its possible for the best components to still make a bad system.The fact that everyone and their brother makes pads for Willwood calipers is nice though.

The AP racing and Brembo kits are probably nice, but I think they have the same problem as the Willwood systems, good components sold to someone who then makes a kit.

Just my 0.02.

 

That would be the irony of the year...buying from Stillen (AP North American distributor) over Stoptech because of customer service. Stillen has a horrible reputation for customer service, while Stoptech's reputation is among the best. I'm not doubting that you might have had a bad experience at SEMA, but a quick look around these boards should prove Stoptech's reputation & attitude about providing positive customer support, and a quick search around the internet will also show Stillen's opposite reputation.