TC Kline/ KONI shocks and Espelir Active GT Springs?
11-22-2005, 02:04 PM
#1
TC Kline/ KONI shocks and Espelir Active GT Springs?
I'm assuming I can buy set of them and they'll work together fine right? Or is there something I don't know about?
http://www.tcklineracing.com/nonbmw.htm
and
http://performancenissanparts.com/ca...oducts_id=5575
Would this be a good combo?
I'm thinking I'll run my 350EVO front sway bar full stiff in front and medium in the rear to compensate for the 6.9/9.2 kg spring rates
I'm not nuts about the progressive rear though...
I like my zeals ok, but think for my car the spring rates are too stiff for the street because the car will jolt up and loose traction whenever going over any medium-heavy uneven surface. Car feels great on extremely smooth road, but just making turns can upset the car when you drive over the little mini water canal grooves that are around street interesections. And I think the rear is a little too bouncy.
Setting the damping stiffer gets rid of the rebound bumps, but makes it even more unstable over any slight bump or groove in the road
I can take any amount of punishment, but I'm not into losing traction because the setup is too stiff. I can picture pushing the car really hard like 9/10 and going over a tiny rock and that upsetting the car's balance.
http://www.tcklineracing.com/nonbmw.htm
and
http://performancenissanparts.com/ca...oducts_id=5575
Would this be a good combo?
I'm thinking I'll run my 350EVO front sway bar full stiff in front and medium in the rear to compensate for the 6.9/9.2 kg spring rates
I'm not nuts about the progressive rear though...
I like my zeals ok, but think for my car the spring rates are too stiff for the street because the car will jolt up and loose traction whenever going over any medium-heavy uneven surface. Car feels great on extremely smooth road, but just making turns can upset the car when you drive over the little mini water canal grooves that are around street interesections. And I think the rear is a little too bouncy.
Setting the damping stiffer gets rid of the rebound bumps, but makes it even more unstable over any slight bump or groove in the road
I can take any amount of punishment, but I'm not into losing traction because the setup is too stiff. I can picture pushing the car really hard like 9/10 and going over a tiny rock and that upsetting the car's balance.
Last edited by sentry65; 11-22-2005 at 02:10 PM.
11-23-2005, 11:46 AM
#2
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sentry
thank you for your review of your zeals. first negative review i have seen on this forum if i may read your review as negative. the fact you're looking to replace them so soon after buying from GY-Z is telling. curious, were they the standard 10/8kg or stiffer 12/10kg?
quote "Setting the damping stiffer gets rid of the rebound bumps, but makes it even more unstable over any slight bump or groove in the road" quote.
I am glad you made this comment. This is the downside to "double adjustable" dampers that don't allow you to independently adjust compression and rebound. by changing the rebound setting, by neccessity you also change the compression setting in this scenario. you may be fixing your rebound problem but forces you to change your compression to something you may not desire.
in the aftermarket shock world. tokicos are "double adjustable" but not independently. koni yellow's i believe have fixed compression and adjustable rebound. the tckline's look like a good option as they are truely double adjustable.
for springs, i've been frustrated that i cannot find the spring rates i want from the current crop of aftermarket springs. to me the espleir spring rates are not what i'm looking for. i wouldn't try and compensate for poor spring rate choices with your sway bars. try and get the springs right first.
hope that helps or perhaps i just added to the frustration
pp
thank you for your review of your zeals. first negative review i have seen on this forum if i may read your review as negative. the fact you're looking to replace them so soon after buying from GY-Z is telling. curious, were they the standard 10/8kg or stiffer 12/10kg?
quote "Setting the damping stiffer gets rid of the rebound bumps, but makes it even more unstable over any slight bump or groove in the road" quote.
I am glad you made this comment. This is the downside to "double adjustable" dampers that don't allow you to independently adjust compression and rebound. by changing the rebound setting, by neccessity you also change the compression setting in this scenario. you may be fixing your rebound problem but forces you to change your compression to something you may not desire.
in the aftermarket shock world. tokicos are "double adjustable" but not independently. koni yellow's i believe have fixed compression and adjustable rebound. the tckline's look like a good option as they are truely double adjustable.
for springs, i've been frustrated that i cannot find the spring rates i want from the current crop of aftermarket springs. to me the espleir spring rates are not what i'm looking for. i wouldn't try and compensate for poor spring rate choices with your sway bars. try and get the springs right first.
hope that helps or perhaps i just added to the frustration
pp
11-25-2005, 05:13 AM
#3
I have the 10/8 kg zeals.
yeah at this point i'm trying to decide if I should go with
nismo suspension
HKS hypermax II
tckline shocks and whatever springs
or take off my zeals and send them in to get revalved with lighter springs and not be set up with stiffer front springs. That's more hassle for me than to just put on a different suspension and sell the zeals
I'm far from a suspension expert or anything and I know my Z will probably do well on a smooth track, but I'm just not liking how instead of the car absorbing little bumps, it'd rather jump that tire up into the air. Then if you set the stiffness to be lower it's too bumpy.
I have an 03 Z. I really like how the 04+ suspension drives, but want maybe a slightly stiffer ride. That's why I'm considering the nismo. The 04+ and nismo suspension both have springs that are stiffer in the rear than the front. I think that's probably what I'm looking for. The downside is they're not monotube and half the springs are progressive.
The HKS I remember I drove jason@performance's car and it seemed to drive fine, but I was paying most of my attention to his tilton clutch at the time. One person on this site who's an instructor said that the HKS is great up to 8/10 when pushed, but after that feels like if you go over a slight bump or rock, you're screwed past 8/10 limit.
yeah I'm not thrilled with the aftermarket spring selection either. Most seem to be progressive or way way too soft - like almost stock.
yeah at this point i'm trying to decide if I should go with
nismo suspension
HKS hypermax II
tckline shocks and whatever springs
or take off my zeals and send them in to get revalved with lighter springs and not be set up with stiffer front springs. That's more hassle for me than to just put on a different suspension and sell the zeals
I'm far from a suspension expert or anything and I know my Z will probably do well on a smooth track, but I'm just not liking how instead of the car absorbing little bumps, it'd rather jump that tire up into the air. Then if you set the stiffness to be lower it's too bumpy.
I have an 03 Z. I really like how the 04+ suspension drives, but want maybe a slightly stiffer ride. That's why I'm considering the nismo. The 04+ and nismo suspension both have springs that are stiffer in the rear than the front. I think that's probably what I'm looking for. The downside is they're not monotube and half the springs are progressive.
The HKS I remember I drove jason@performance's car and it seemed to drive fine, but I was paying most of my attention to his tilton clutch at the time. One person on this site who's an instructor said that the HKS is great up to 8/10 when pushed, but after that feels like if you go over a slight bump or rock, you're screwed past 8/10 limit.
yeah I'm not thrilled with the aftermarket spring selection either. Most seem to be progressive or way way too soft - like almost stock.
11-25-2005, 05:50 AM
#6
yeah at this point I'm leaning towards the nismo suspension. I'll save some money that way too. There's enough expensive crap going on with this car. I remember talking with Mike whatever his last name is at Performance Nissan who does the pro racing and he was going on about the nismo suspension setup saying he doesn't think it can be that much better than what it is as far as how it drives etc.
When I first installed the Zeals, I loved them and couldn't fault them other than the squishing/squeeking noise, but that's still no sweat for me. It just kinda bugs me cause going around corners seems stable, but you get that walking on eggshells feeling like the car is so stiff with it's springs and damping that at any given moment you can lose control from some bumps. Maybe I'm just thinking about it too much, but my friend had a 05 mustang V6 and it felt more confident with taking turns on the street than my Z just because tires weren't being bounced or almost bounced off the road. Lately I've been using a setting of 3 front, 2 rear. I dunno. I think I want less spring and more damping
When I first installed the Zeals, I loved them and couldn't fault them other than the squishing/squeeking noise, but that's still no sweat for me. It just kinda bugs me cause going around corners seems stable, but you get that walking on eggshells feeling like the car is so stiff with it's springs and damping that at any given moment you can lose control from some bumps. Maybe I'm just thinking about it too much, but my friend had a 05 mustang V6 and it felt more confident with taking turns on the street than my Z just because tires weren't being bounced or almost bounced off the road. Lately I've been using a setting of 3 front, 2 rear. I dunno. I think I want less spring and more damping
11-25-2005, 05:56 AM
#7
You may want to try the Nissan Motorsports T2 Springs:
http://performancenissanparts.com/ca...oducts_id=2591
Don't forget, the stiffer springs won't ride as harsh once you have proper dampening control... the harshness you feel right now is mostly from an unbalanced setup of poor low speed dampening with stiff springs. If you where to crank up your dampeners to full stiff the car should ride much better, but at a compromise of highway comfort.
http://performancenissanparts.com/ca...oducts_id=2591
Don't forget, the stiffer springs won't ride as harsh once you have proper dampening control... the harshness you feel right now is mostly from an unbalanced setup of poor low speed dampening with stiff springs. If you where to crank up your dampeners to full stiff the car should ride much better, but at a compromise of highway comfort.
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11-26-2005, 03:49 PM
#8
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Sentry65, I have driven in GYZ's car and it was stiff but not bad. You might think about playing around with the shock adjustments. Have you tried full soft?
If you are thinking about the TC Kline Konis, call TC and have him sell you the shocks with the springs, he valve the shock and put the correct spring in for what you want on the car. Dont try to mix and match springs and shocks yourself, unless you have a lot of suspension experience you will end up with something that doesn work well and you will end up not liking.
My racecar has JRZ shocks with the T2 springs, and when I drive the car on the street, it actually rides better than the stock OE 2004.5 suspension! Thats what happens when you have shocks that are valved correctly for the springs you are using.
If you are thinking about the TC Kline Konis, call TC and have him sell you the shocks with the springs, he valve the shock and put the correct spring in for what you want on the car. Dont try to mix and match springs and shocks yourself, unless you have a lot of suspension experience you will end up with something that doesn work well and you will end up not liking.
My racecar has JRZ shocks with the T2 springs, and when I drive the car on the street, it actually rides better than the stock OE 2004.5 suspension! Thats what happens when you have shocks that are valved correctly for the springs you are using.
11-26-2005, 04:59 PM
#9
yeah I dunno, right now I have the 350EVO sway bars and they're both set to medium. I'm thinking about changing the rear to soft or the front to full stiff.
I've messed around a LOT with the stiffness settings on the zeal and I'm just not happy with how they're riding. The stiffness isn't so bad, but I don't feel confident at all taking corners. The front end wants to just bounce up off the road then the rear wants to lose grip. My car has lost about 100-120 lbs and about 60% of it is from the front-ish part of the car. I honestly feel at this point the 2004.5 suspension setup works much better out on the street than how the Zeal is on my 03 track model and the mods I have done.
I've tried full soft but it's too bouncy. Not as much as stock, but for the price tag of the Zeals, I hope at least the far majority of bouce would be gone. Obviously full soft doesn't have enough damping force to work well with the heavy springs (10kg/8kg)
even GY-Z said in one of his posts that he thought the rear was too soft compared to the front and was thinking of trying a 13kg spring and revalve next if he didn't sell it to me. I was thinking of changing the spring out to something stiffer to like a 10kg, but started thinking the front is too stiff and stiffening the rear is going to not really solve what I'm really wanting
It's especially annoying to me for getting bumps when taking a turn on the street because my tilton clutch is so twitchy that it just isn't a good recipe for control because i'm bouncing around everywhere and it affects working the gas pedal. I love the stiff feel though when going straight and some sweeping turns though...
IMO the spring rates on the Zeals are all screwed up. The fronts should not be as stiff as they are in relation to the rears. I don't feel like taking them off, sending them off to zeal for new springs and revalving, so I just ordered the nismo suspension. I know the nismo suspension isn't as exotic or bling or whatever, but most people who have it seem pretty happy with it. Mike Cronin Jr from the Perf. Nissan race team recomended the nismo suspension to me and he uses it on his personal car. Actually in the sport Z interview him and the other guy were saying the Z's chasis is so stiff that getting springs that are 50% or more stiffer than OEM is a bad idea and will actually make you slower around a track. Not to say one person is right or another is wrong, but I'm just going to go with that now that I've tried the "holy grail" that Zeal is
Other reasons are the nismo weighs less than the Zeal and isn't as thick as the Zeal which my rear tires are dangerously close to rubbing in the rear with my wheel offset (10.5 with +43 offset 295mm tires) I was going to get some 5mm spacers, but maybe now I won't have to rely solely on those for hard turning. I'll also recoup some money instead of spending more
I don't track my car like crazy. Just here and there so it's 99% street driving. I've spent so much money on this car that I just can't afford taking it on a road course and risk crashing it and not being covered by insurance. Right now I'd rather buy a used POS that's built for the track from the start.
At this point I just want something that I can put on my car, know it'll work well and forget about it. Maybe I'll soften up the rear sway bar still. I can always stiffen it up for autox. If a s-tune shock goes bad, I'll just order a new one, they're dirt cheap and don't have to have any down time waiting for a revalving etc.
so yeah the suspension will be up for sale in a few weeks. I still think it's a good suspension. Much better than the stock 03. Just doesn't drive the way I'm wanting at this point.
I've messed around a LOT with the stiffness settings on the zeal and I'm just not happy with how they're riding. The stiffness isn't so bad, but I don't feel confident at all taking corners. The front end wants to just bounce up off the road then the rear wants to lose grip. My car has lost about 100-120 lbs and about 60% of it is from the front-ish part of the car. I honestly feel at this point the 2004.5 suspension setup works much better out on the street than how the Zeal is on my 03 track model and the mods I have done.
I've tried full soft but it's too bouncy. Not as much as stock, but for the price tag of the Zeals, I hope at least the far majority of bouce would be gone. Obviously full soft doesn't have enough damping force to work well with the heavy springs (10kg/8kg)
even GY-Z said in one of his posts that he thought the rear was too soft compared to the front and was thinking of trying a 13kg spring and revalve next if he didn't sell it to me. I was thinking of changing the spring out to something stiffer to like a 10kg, but started thinking the front is too stiff and stiffening the rear is going to not really solve what I'm really wanting
It's especially annoying to me for getting bumps when taking a turn on the street because my tilton clutch is so twitchy that it just isn't a good recipe for control because i'm bouncing around everywhere and it affects working the gas pedal. I love the stiff feel though when going straight and some sweeping turns though...
IMO the spring rates on the Zeals are all screwed up. The fronts should not be as stiff as they are in relation to the rears. I don't feel like taking them off, sending them off to zeal for new springs and revalving, so I just ordered the nismo suspension. I know the nismo suspension isn't as exotic or bling or whatever, but most people who have it seem pretty happy with it. Mike Cronin Jr from the Perf. Nissan race team recomended the nismo suspension to me and he uses it on his personal car. Actually in the sport Z interview him and the other guy were saying the Z's chasis is so stiff that getting springs that are 50% or more stiffer than OEM is a bad idea and will actually make you slower around a track. Not to say one person is right or another is wrong, but I'm just going to go with that now that I've tried the "holy grail" that Zeal is
Other reasons are the nismo weighs less than the Zeal and isn't as thick as the Zeal which my rear tires are dangerously close to rubbing in the rear with my wheel offset (10.5 with +43 offset 295mm tires) I was going to get some 5mm spacers, but maybe now I won't have to rely solely on those for hard turning. I'll also recoup some money instead of spending moreI don't track my car like crazy. Just here and there so it's 99% street driving. I've spent so much money on this car that I just can't afford taking it on a road course and risk crashing it and not being covered by insurance. Right now I'd rather buy a used POS that's built for the track from the start.
At this point I just want something that I can put on my car, know it'll work well and forget about it. Maybe I'll soften up the rear sway bar still. I can always stiffen it up for autox. If a s-tune shock goes bad, I'll just order a new one, they're dirt cheap and don't have to have any down time waiting for a revalving etc.
so yeah the suspension will be up for sale in a few weeks. I still think it's a good suspension. Much better than the stock 03. Just doesn't drive the way I'm wanting at this point.
Last edited by sentry65; 11-26-2005 at 05:28 PM.
11-27-2005, 03:56 PM
#10
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quote "he valve the shock and put the correct spring in for what you want on the car"
does TCKline have spring options? or were you talking just about the nissan motorsports T2 springs?
pp
quote "he valve the shock and put the correct spring in for what you want on the car"
does TCKline have spring options? or were you talking just about the nissan motorsports T2 springs?
pp
11-28-2005, 05:03 AM
#11
Originally Posted by palepony
Along
quote "he valve the shock and put the correct spring in for what you want on the car"
does TCKline have spring options? or were you talking just about the nissan motorsports T2 springs?
pp
quote "he valve the shock and put the correct spring in for what you want on the car"
does TCKline have spring options? or were you talking just about the nissan motorsports T2 springs?
pp
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