StopTech's 6piston Beauuuuttyyyy... ;)
03-10-2006, 03:47 PM
#41
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey...that's a Brembo disc on Lou Gilloti’s World Challenge Corvette.
I'd love to hear the reasons why he's running our 355x32mm Type 3 Race Disc rather than Stoptech's "patented AeroRotor® featuring 10-30% more airflow".
That's awesome.
[QUOTE=DZeckhausen]Here's a shot I took while wandering the pits at Lime Rock last year during the SPEED World Challenge races:
QUOTE]
Hey...that's a Brembo disc on Lou Gilloti’s World Challenge Corvette.
I'd love to hear the reasons why he's running our 355x32mm Type 3 Race Disc rather than Stoptech's "patented AeroRotor® featuring 10-30% more airflow".
That's awesome.
[QUOTE=DZeckhausen]Here's a shot I took while wandering the pits at Lime Rock last year during the SPEED World Challenge races:
QUOTE]
Hey...that's a Brembo disc on Lou Gilloti’s World Challenge Corvette.
Last edited by BremboGuy; 03-13-2006 at 09:32 AM.
03-10-2006, 03:51 PM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maplewood, NJ
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by BremboGuy
Hey...that's a Brembo disc on Lou Gilloti’s World Challenge Corvette.
I'd love to hear the reasons why he's running our 355x32mm Type 3 Race Disc rather than Stoptech's "patented AeroRotor® featuring 10-30% more airflow".
That's awesome.
I'd love to hear the reasons why he's running our 355x32mm Type 3 Race Disc rather than Stoptech's "patented AeroRotor® featuring 10-30% more airflow".
That's awesome.
That was a leftover set of rotors that he ran a very long time ago. Now he's running the Aerorotors.You want to see another example of frugal? Check out those universal wheel spacers! Aaaaaaaah!
Last edited by DZeckhausen; 03-10-2006 at 03:55 PM.
03-10-2006, 04:07 PM
#43
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Dave,
Yeah... I'm sure that's the reason.
Most racers are frugal. They get what they can through sponsorships... then they have to buy every thing else.
Racing is an expensive sport.
(I'm off for the weekend chasing the snow...hope you have a great one)
Yeah... I'm sure that's the reason.
Most racers are frugal. They get what they can through sponsorships... then they have to buy every thing else.
Racing is an expensive sport.
(I'm off for the weekend chasing the snow...hope you have a great one)
03-11-2006, 12:54 PM
#44
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maplewood, NJ
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by BremboGuy
(I'm off for the weekend chasing the snow...hope you have a great one)
03-12-2006, 02:41 PM
#45
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maplewood, NJ
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In case you're wondering - yes the picture did change. The original was one I took at Lime Rock in 2004 (not 2005 as I incorrectly posted). The new photo is from the pits last year at Laguna Seca and shows the StopTech rotors Lou has been running for two seasons and those cheap universal spacers have been replaced with nicer machined ones.
03-14-2006, 06:28 AM
#48
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 2,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DZeckhausen
There is no performance advantage of a leading caliper design over a trailing caliper design. However, there is an advantage in having the caliper as close to the 3:00 or the 9:00 position as possible in order to minimize pad knockback due to wheel bearing deflection under race conditions. See: http://stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_knockback.shtml for more details on knockback. The 350Z (and G35) is more prone to knockback than some platforms because the caliper is significantly above the 3:00 position.
As the wheel, hub, and wheel bearing deflect during cornering,
Has Stop Tech done any analysis to correlate this with actual test conditions?
03-14-2006, 06:57 AM
#49
Yeah, StopTech should re-engineer the whole Z drive train.
Just for fun…
Spiff, are you looking for clues to prove that pad knock back exist? And that it really comes from the wheel assembly’s deflection under cornering load?
Why would StopTech do that kind of research specifically on the Z when they can’t move the caliper around anyways?
Just for fun…
Spiff, are you looking for clues to prove that pad knock back exist? And that it really comes from the wheel assembly’s deflection under cornering load?
Why would StopTech do that kind of research specifically on the Z when they can’t move the caliper around anyways?
03-14-2006, 08:15 AM
#50
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 2,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Kolia
Yeah, StopTech should re-engineer the whole Z drive train.
Just for fun…
Spiff, are you looking for clues to prove that pad knock back exist? And that it really comes from the wheel assembly’s deflection under cornering load?
Why would StopTech do that kind of research specifically on the Z when they can’t move the caliper around anyways?
Just for fun…
Spiff, are you looking for clues to prove that pad knock back exist? And that it really comes from the wheel assembly’s deflection under cornering load?
Why would StopTech do that kind of research specifically on the Z when they can’t move the caliper around anyways?
Rotor and pad design could somewhat reduce that effect. But that would need lot of detailed analysis and correlation of it. The new Z06 has independant pads for each piston, that should minimize this effect.
Last edited by spacemn_spiff; 03-14-2006 at 08:21 AM.
03-14-2006, 08:28 AM
#51
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maplewood, NJ
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by spacemn_spiff
I would like to know how much deformation is seen on average in cornering if you take an average sports car 3000lb range, I dont know what ball park size bearings are used.
My BMW 540i 6-Speed w/Brembo 4-wheel BBK exhibited medium knockback at a driver's school, but it was consistant and controllable, once I knew it was coming. And my 1996 Impala SS w/4-wheel Mov'it brakes would get it bad going through a sharp hairpin near my house, due to the live rear axle deflection. My 2006 300C SRT8 w/4-wheel factory Brembos does not do it all all.
Has Stop Tech done any analysis to correlate this with actual test conditions?
My comment on 350Z knockback comes from driver feedback from pro and advanced drivers running the Track model on R-compound tires and using factory Brembos. The WRX STi is also prone to this phenomenon. It has nothing to do with the Brembo calipers specifically, since a StopTech kit run under the same conditions on this platform would also experience some knockback. It has to do with a combination of brake geometry, caliper design and piston sizing, bearing design, and driving conditions. It rarely happens on the street. It's my understanding that Subaru has upgraded the front bearings on the latest model STi for this very reason.
03-14-2006, 09:24 AM
#52
The earlier STi would melt the grease in the bearing under the combined effect of heavy load and heat generated by the brakes on a race track. It would fail eventually.
Pad knock back is pretty much something we have to live with on a production based car. Even FIA GT racers will tap their brake before any heavy braking zones, regardless of upgrades.
I get some with my Z on any race track I drive, with street tires.
Pad knock back is pretty much something we have to live with on a production based car. Even FIA GT racers will tap their brake before any heavy braking zones, regardless of upgrades.
I get some with my Z on any race track I drive, with street tires.
07-13-2006, 03:41 PM
#53
Well, I'm going to wake this thread up from the dead because I learned something last weekend that I need a bit of clarification from the experts on this board.
I met a racer who is also a regular instructor with a Northern California club. He serves as the technical inspector for the club as well. I allowed him drive my car (w/ 355mm the stoptech kit), and out of courtesy, I warned him that I have knockback issues, and recommended that he pump the brake a bit to set the pads before each turn.
He told me he doesn't have this issue in his e46 M3 that he had ouffitted with aftermarket brembo calipers and floating rotors. When he asked me if the stoptech rotors were floating, I said, "yes". As I understand it, it floats radially to accommodate thermal expansion.
He later elaborated that his rotors also float laterally so that the rotors would give up the gap instead of the caliper pistons. He didn't have his race car there so I could not verify his claims. In any case, do any of you have experience with a rotor that has radial AND lateral float?
It seems that AP racing has a rotor design that supposedly mitigates pad knockback: http://www.apracing.com/roadcar/brakekit/stdrive.htm
I'm working on my left foot tap, but it's downright ugly.
I met a racer who is also a regular instructor with a Northern California club. He serves as the technical inspector for the club as well. I allowed him drive my car (w/ 355mm the stoptech kit), and out of courtesy, I warned him that I have knockback issues, and recommended that he pump the brake a bit to set the pads before each turn.
He told me he doesn't have this issue in his e46 M3 that he had ouffitted with aftermarket brembo calipers and floating rotors. When he asked me if the stoptech rotors were floating, I said, "yes". As I understand it, it floats radially to accommodate thermal expansion.
He later elaborated that his rotors also float laterally so that the rotors would give up the gap instead of the caliper pistons. He didn't have his race car there so I could not verify his claims. In any case, do any of you have experience with a rotor that has radial AND lateral float?
It seems that AP racing has a rotor design that supposedly mitigates pad knockback: http://www.apracing.com/roadcar/brakekit/stdrive.htm
I'm working on my left foot tap, but it's downright ugly.
07-13-2006, 04:25 PM
#54
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maplewood, NJ
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not the brakes, it's the platform. The E46 M3 is not prone to knockback, regardless of which aftermarket brake kit you install. The 350Z is. It's a combination of the orientation of the caliper (away from the ideal 3:00 or 9:00 position) as well as the amount of wheel bearing deflection under heavy lateral loads.
07-13-2006, 04:51 PM
#56
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Maplewood, NJ
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by VN_350z
DZeckhausen,
In your 350z BBK test, how come you didn't invite other BBK such as BREMBO 355mm BBK or AP Racing?
Why only stoptech vs stock brembo?
In your 350z BBK test, how come you didn't invite other BBK such as BREMBO 355mm BBK or AP Racing?
Why only stoptech vs stock brembo?
This sequence of testing is done by StopTech to finalize and verify the design of every new kit before it's released for sale. It wasn't a one-time brake shootout. It was part of the normal StopTech development process.
07-13-2006, 04:54 PM
#57
Originally Posted by dnguyent
Well, I'm going to wake this thread up from the dead because I learned something last weekend that I need a bit of clarification from the experts on this board.
I met a racer who is also a regular instructor with a Northern California club. He serves as the technical inspector for the club as well. I allowed him drive my car (w/ 355mm the stoptech kit), and out of courtesy, I warned him that I have knockback issues, and recommended that he pump the brake a bit to set the pads before each turn.
He told me he doesn't have this issue in his e46 M3 that he had ouffitted with aftermarket brembo calipers and floating rotors. When he asked me if the stoptech rotors were floating, I said, "yes". As I understand it, it floats radially to accommodate thermal expansion.
He later elaborated that his rotors also float laterally so that the rotors would give up the gap instead of the caliper pistons. He didn't have his race car there so I could not verify his claims. In any case, do any of you have experience with a rotor that has radial AND lateral float?
It seems that AP racing has a rotor design that supposedly mitigates pad knockback: http://www.apracing.com/roadcar/brakekit/stdrive.htm
I'm working on my left foot tap, but it's downright ugly.
I met a racer who is also a regular instructor with a Northern California club. He serves as the technical inspector for the club as well. I allowed him drive my car (w/ 355mm the stoptech kit), and out of courtesy, I warned him that I have knockback issues, and recommended that he pump the brake a bit to set the pads before each turn.
He told me he doesn't have this issue in his e46 M3 that he had ouffitted with aftermarket brembo calipers and floating rotors. When he asked me if the stoptech rotors were floating, I said, "yes". As I understand it, it floats radially to accommodate thermal expansion.
He later elaborated that his rotors also float laterally so that the rotors would give up the gap instead of the caliper pistons. He didn't have his race car there so I could not verify his claims. In any case, do any of you have experience with a rotor that has radial AND lateral float?
It seems that AP racing has a rotor design that supposedly mitigates pad knockback: http://www.apracing.com/roadcar/brakekit/stdrive.htm
I'm working on my left foot tap, but it's downright ugly.
how many miles are on your Z? how many TRACK miles are on your Z?
It may be time to change out your front wheel hubs... It MAY help reduce some of the knock back..
Either way... it was a habit for me on my Z33 to tap the brake pedal out of a hard corner on the straight before the next corner before down shifting...
Plus, the Larger the rotor, the more knock back you may experience... smaller rotors w/ fixed calipers like the OE brembo do not get the same knockback as a 14.1" rotor
07-13-2006, 04:59 PM
#58
Banned
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Orange County
Posts: 2,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DZeckhausen
That test was part of the development process of the new StopTech BBK. At the time, there were no other aftermarket brake kits for the 350Z. In fact, the car had not yet been released to the general public. Only the press had driven these cars at that time.
This sequence of testing is done by StopTech to finalize and verify the design of every new kit before it's released for sale. It wasn't a one-time brake shootout. It was part of the normal StopTech development process.
This sequence of testing is done by StopTech to finalize and verify the design of every new kit before it's released for sale. It wasn't a one-time brake shootout. It was part of the normal StopTech development process.
07-13-2006, 05:19 PM
#59
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
350Z brake testing
I happened to work for the magazine and be there the day this test happened:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ro...50z/index.html
The key point is that the car stopped in 99 feet from 60 mph. That's not easy to do on street-legal tires.
I also organized and wrote Road & Track SPEED Magazine's test of tuned Zs last year, including one with Greddy/Grex/Alcon brakes, Stillen's AP brakes, OE base, OE Track and StopTech 355/ST-40 front, 328/ST-22 rear brakes, driving them all at the Streets of Willow back-to-back. If you can find a copy of that magazine (it might have been scanned in here when it came out), you'll see what I said, as well as what the radar gun said about all the others (the StopTech car wasn't at the airfield where the radar work was done). I've driven StopTech and many other BBKs on many different cars, both on track and on the street. I came to work at StopTech because I believe in the product and it's something I can promote fully with complete personal integrity.
-Dan Barnes
Marketing Manager
StopTech
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ro...50z/index.html
The key point is that the car stopped in 99 feet from 60 mph. That's not easy to do on street-legal tires.
I also organized and wrote Road & Track SPEED Magazine's test of tuned Zs last year, including one with Greddy/Grex/Alcon brakes, Stillen's AP brakes, OE base, OE Track and StopTech 355/ST-40 front, 328/ST-22 rear brakes, driving them all at the Streets of Willow back-to-back. If you can find a copy of that magazine (it might have been scanned in here when it came out), you'll see what I said, as well as what the radar gun said about all the others (the StopTech car wasn't at the airfield where the radar work was done). I've driven StopTech and many other BBKs on many different cars, both on track and on the street. I came to work at StopTech because I believe in the product and it's something I can promote fully with complete personal integrity.
-Dan Barnes
Marketing Manager
StopTech
07-13-2006, 07:11 PM
#60
Banned
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Orange County
Posts: 2,585
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dan@StopTech
I happened to work for the magazine and be there the day this test happened:
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ro...50z/index.html
The key point is that the car stopped in 99 feet from 60 mph. That's not easy to do on street-legal tires.
I also organized and wrote Road & Track SPEED Magazine's test of tuned Zs last year, including one with Greddy/Grex/Alcon brakes, Stillen's AP brakes, OE base, OE Track and StopTech 355/ST-40 front, 328/ST-22 rear brakes, driving them all at the Streets of Willow back-to-back. If you can find a copy of that magazine (it might have been scanned in here when it came out), you'll see what I said, as well as what the radar gun said about all the others (the StopTech car wasn't at the airfield where the radar work was done). I've driven StopTech and many other BBKs on many different cars, both on track and on the street. I came to work at StopTech because I believe in the product and it's something I can promote fully with complete personal integrity.
-Dan Barnes
Marketing Manager
StopTech
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/ro...50z/index.html
The key point is that the car stopped in 99 feet from 60 mph. That's not easy to do on street-legal tires.
I also organized and wrote Road & Track SPEED Magazine's test of tuned Zs last year, including one with Greddy/Grex/Alcon brakes, Stillen's AP brakes, OE base, OE Track and StopTech 355/ST-40 front, 328/ST-22 rear brakes, driving them all at the Streets of Willow back-to-back. If you can find a copy of that magazine (it might have been scanned in here when it came out), you'll see what I said, as well as what the radar gun said about all the others (the StopTech car wasn't at the airfield where the radar work was done). I've driven StopTech and many other BBKs on many different cars, both on track and on the street. I came to work at StopTech because I believe in the product and it's something I can promote fully with complete personal integrity.
-Dan Barnes
Marketing Manager
StopTech
