View Poll Results: Stoptech: Yes or No
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Stoptech BBK
07-13-2006, 09:10 AM
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Unorganized does not describe the situation. We are extremely organized, but we are overwhelmed. Did you ever see the TV ad when the people start the company with a new product...the little counter registers a few sales and everyone cheers. Then the counter goes nuts and everyone looks concerned. That is our situation. We are not a new company, and we have processes in place to handle quite a large amount of business. We also have a lot of very smart people working here. Our growth is exponential however, and it's putting massive strain on us.
As for 'hit or miss,' I believe the hit or miss part is that all of the components for the brake kits could be in one of ten places at any given time. I'll give you a scenario. Let's say you order a 355mm front kit. It could be on the shelf. Or, a reseller of ours could have it on the shelf. Or, the brackets could be in house, but spoken for on another order. The brackets could be at anodizing. The hats could be on the lathe being cut. The calipers could be on the mill, or at paint, or at anodizing, or in transit. The brake lines could be on the shelf or not. One of our suppliers in Europe may have put a brake line fitting on a boat instead of a plane like they were supposed to...it happens.
All of these moving pieces are incredibly difficult to track. We spent huge sums on software this year just to make this process easier to track and manage, and we're hiring people to carry out these processes constantly. It's still very difficult to give a firm answer to the seemingly simple question to the outsider, "when will I get my brakes?" Every little item has to be accounted for, and they're all over the map. That means to give a date, you have to figure out when they're all going to arrive in the same place at the same time, get assembled and sent out the door. It is not an easy task when you're growing at a 50% rate. You also have to throw extra pieces into the mix to account for that growth, and hope that you're building the right thing, the market doesn't change, etc. When one of our sales guys gives a date, it's based on the best info they get at that time from production. They're aren't lying, and they aren't making the date up. If the paint shop calls and says they're behind on getting some parts back to us for any reason, that date has now changed. We have no control over that, other than trying to get reliable suppliers...which we have, and we have backups. Things still go awry with this many moving pieces in these quantities however.
On top of all of this, our product is more customized than other brake kits on the market. Our piston sizing is all over the map. That means we have to build x number of 36-40 calipers, do a changeover / setup on the machine, run Y quantity of 28-28's, then 36-42's, etc. Additionally, our calipers come in different cuts. Some have more material on the face to support bigger pistons (a rib), others have cuts to make wheel clearance better. Every one of our hats is unique, as are our brackets. Every caliper and line has to be pressure bench tested, something that other manufacturers don't do, but we feel is important. This all takes machine and labor time. We also have red, yellow, blue, black, silver...zinc coated rotors, drilled, slotted, plain. The slots and drill holes don't show up in the rotors by magic.
Most of our competitors in the US market are distributors, not domestic manufacturers. Boxes show up in their warehouse for a given application. They only have a couple of piston sizes, so the people back at the mothership in Asia, Europe, or South America only have to contend with making 3 or 4 different caliper types. Some of them use a universal-type bracket that fits multiple platforms. Others use more generic brake lines in preset lengths, and they aren't bench tested. The fact that we go out of our way to be thorough and design our product to the next level hurts us in that it makes the process that much more complicated. We have a better product for it however, and it shows in the final result.
When I started here, I was stunned by the extraordinary number of things that could go wrong in the process to get these products made. It seems simple, but the tiniest thing could grind everything to a halt. If we don't have enough of the little rubber caps to cover the bleed screws, we can't ship kits. That seems ridiculous, but what do you do? I came from the service industry, where we were only limited by the amount of labor time we put in. We showed up, did our work, and if we didn't get the job done it was because we didn't plan our own time well. Manufacturing is not that way, and it was a real eye-opener to me personally. As I mentioned before, hopefully this winter we'll be able to have an open house, and you'll be able to see firsthand how this process works. It truly is a dance that needs a massive amount of coordination. When you grow like we are now though, it's like throwing a gorilla on the dancers back, sending the choreographer out to lunch, and putting on the strobe light.
Again, I know this doesn't put brakes in your hands today, and it may not make you feel any better. But hopefully it helps you realize that it's not because we don't care or we aren't trying. We hire good people, and they're working hard. We're all enthusiasts and passionate about what we do. I eat, sleep, and breathe this stuff, and it does hurt to hear customers bash something that we're so proud of. If this was easy, you'd see a lot more people successful at it. That's not the case, and those that can survive will, while others will fail. Fortunately, our future has really been secured with the recent purchase of our company. Huge resources are being thrown at these issues each day, and they will be solved and smoothed out. It's just a tough ride until that point, and we do appreciate those that are sticking with us. I'm sorry that's the case, but we're doing everything we can to get through it. It's been very tough on our team, as we hate doling out disappointment.
buzzardmountain,
It sure is easy to be a critic. You show me one other company that is as open about our business as we are...and you show me upper mgmt. at other brake manufacturers helping out end-user customers (and competitors' customers) as much as we do. Think about the fact that we make brakes for 450+ applications. Each one of them has a message board just like this one. It's not all that practical for myself and our employees to spend every waking second on the 350Z forum when we're trying to run a business growing at this rate. This forum gets a disproportionate amount of attention from us, and I think we're doing a solid job of serving the Z community. We have more great products for this platform than any other, and more published technical advice and info on our website than anybody else. So, if you think you can do a better job, send me your resume. I'm always looking for good sales guys. I'll put you in charge of dealing with customers on this forum.
As for 'hit or miss,' I believe the hit or miss part is that all of the components for the brake kits could be in one of ten places at any given time. I'll give you a scenario. Let's say you order a 355mm front kit. It could be on the shelf. Or, a reseller of ours could have it on the shelf. Or, the brackets could be in house, but spoken for on another order. The brackets could be at anodizing. The hats could be on the lathe being cut. The calipers could be on the mill, or at paint, or at anodizing, or in transit. The brake lines could be on the shelf or not. One of our suppliers in Europe may have put a brake line fitting on a boat instead of a plane like they were supposed to...it happens.
All of these moving pieces are incredibly difficult to track. We spent huge sums on software this year just to make this process easier to track and manage, and we're hiring people to carry out these processes constantly. It's still very difficult to give a firm answer to the seemingly simple question to the outsider, "when will I get my brakes?" Every little item has to be accounted for, and they're all over the map. That means to give a date, you have to figure out when they're all going to arrive in the same place at the same time, get assembled and sent out the door. It is not an easy task when you're growing at a 50% rate. You also have to throw extra pieces into the mix to account for that growth, and hope that you're building the right thing, the market doesn't change, etc. When one of our sales guys gives a date, it's based on the best info they get at that time from production. They're aren't lying, and they aren't making the date up. If the paint shop calls and says they're behind on getting some parts back to us for any reason, that date has now changed. We have no control over that, other than trying to get reliable suppliers...which we have, and we have backups. Things still go awry with this many moving pieces in these quantities however.
On top of all of this, our product is more customized than other brake kits on the market. Our piston sizing is all over the map. That means we have to build x number of 36-40 calipers, do a changeover / setup on the machine, run Y quantity of 28-28's, then 36-42's, etc. Additionally, our calipers come in different cuts. Some have more material on the face to support bigger pistons (a rib), others have cuts to make wheel clearance better. Every one of our hats is unique, as are our brackets. Every caliper and line has to be pressure bench tested, something that other manufacturers don't do, but we feel is important. This all takes machine and labor time. We also have red, yellow, blue, black, silver...zinc coated rotors, drilled, slotted, plain. The slots and drill holes don't show up in the rotors by magic.
Most of our competitors in the US market are distributors, not domestic manufacturers. Boxes show up in their warehouse for a given application. They only have a couple of piston sizes, so the people back at the mothership in Asia, Europe, or South America only have to contend with making 3 or 4 different caliper types. Some of them use a universal-type bracket that fits multiple platforms. Others use more generic brake lines in preset lengths, and they aren't bench tested. The fact that we go out of our way to be thorough and design our product to the next level hurts us in that it makes the process that much more complicated. We have a better product for it however, and it shows in the final result.
When I started here, I was stunned by the extraordinary number of things that could go wrong in the process to get these products made. It seems simple, but the tiniest thing could grind everything to a halt. If we don't have enough of the little rubber caps to cover the bleed screws, we can't ship kits. That seems ridiculous, but what do you do? I came from the service industry, where we were only limited by the amount of labor time we put in. We showed up, did our work, and if we didn't get the job done it was because we didn't plan our own time well. Manufacturing is not that way, and it was a real eye-opener to me personally. As I mentioned before, hopefully this winter we'll be able to have an open house, and you'll be able to see firsthand how this process works. It truly is a dance that needs a massive amount of coordination. When you grow like we are now though, it's like throwing a gorilla on the dancers back, sending the choreographer out to lunch, and putting on the strobe light.
Again, I know this doesn't put brakes in your hands today, and it may not make you feel any better. But hopefully it helps you realize that it's not because we don't care or we aren't trying. We hire good people, and they're working hard. We're all enthusiasts and passionate about what we do. I eat, sleep, and breathe this stuff, and it does hurt to hear customers bash something that we're so proud of. If this was easy, you'd see a lot more people successful at it. That's not the case, and those that can survive will, while others will fail. Fortunately, our future has really been secured with the recent purchase of our company. Huge resources are being thrown at these issues each day, and they will be solved and smoothed out. It's just a tough ride until that point, and we do appreciate those that are sticking with us. I'm sorry that's the case, but we're doing everything we can to get through it. It's been very tough on our team, as we hate doling out disappointment.
lex350, make a thread in this section and in the title say something like Rotora pwns Stoptech, Brembo>Stoptech, AP brakes FTW!, Stoptech<Wilwood, etc........
If you do this, you will find a Stoptech rep in seconds.......
If you do this, you will find a Stoptech rep in seconds.......
It sure is easy to be a critic. You show me one other company that is as open about our business as we are...and you show me upper mgmt. at other brake manufacturers helping out end-user customers (and competitors' customers) as much as we do. Think about the fact that we make brakes for 450+ applications. Each one of them has a message board just like this one. It's not all that practical for myself and our employees to spend every waking second on the 350Z forum when we're trying to run a business growing at this rate. This forum gets a disproportionate amount of attention from us, and I think we're doing a solid job of serving the Z community. We have more great products for this platform than any other, and more published technical advice and info on our website than anybody else. So, if you think you can do a better job, send me your resume. I'm always looking for good sales guys. I'll put you in charge of dealing with customers on this forum.
07-13-2006, 09:26 AM
#83
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The reference to the company being unorganized is specifically drawn from this particular issue. We called about Alex's brakes two weeks ago and was told it would be 8 weeks on the order. I waited two days to call Alex and we get a phone call saying they are going to paint. This is actually the 2nd time around where we were told they were going to paint and were actually not. Therefore when my customer calls asking the status, what am I supposed to say when my rep says they are going to paint? I understand you all are overwhelmed but 4.5 months on a special color does not seem fair to the customer. The website still states a 30 day lead time on special colors and at this point I feel should be altered as the dealers are the ones that are going to have to deal with unhappy customers.
-Greg
-Greg
07-13-2006, 09:42 AM
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Someone has to deal with the unhappy customers J Ritt. Maybe you should hire Tom Smykowski.
"What, what would ya say, ya do here? Well look, I already told you, I deal with the goddamn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people! Can't you undersand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?"
Thanks Guys
"What, what would ya say, ya do here? Well look, I already told you, I deal with the goddamn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people! Can't you undersand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?"
Thanks Guys
07-13-2006, 09:56 AM
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I hear you Greg. I'll have the website changed. I'm not sure what happened on the paint issue?... I'll look into it. We don't want our resellers taking the heat. If you need us to talk to a customer, we will do so.
Lex,
I had the Bob's in here the other day. They asked me to think, "what is good for the company" before I wrote my post. I did, and I think it turned out okay.
Lex,
I had the Bob's in here the other day. They asked me to think, "what is good for the company" before I wrote my post. I did, and I think it turned out okay.
07-13-2006, 09:32 PM
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Sometimes being unhappy goes along with receiving a quality product. If products are produce just to please customers then quality would suffer. If you receive a defective product, it will take the same amount of time to return the product and get a replacement as it would it were produced carefully.
Being in business is not easy. As customers we want it and we want it now. As manufacturers it is their job to provide quality. Quality builds consumer confidence. You will enjoy your product more knowing it is on your own working properly than being in and out of the garage. So StopTech in my opinion is trying to provide consumers quality merchandise by sacrificing production time. As long as you have brakes on your car that are working waiting on a new set should not be detrimental.
StopTech as a suggestion a statisical analysis would help sovle some of your problems, if you have not done one thus far. It is complicated to explain here but doing a little business research to locate and improve the slow can help. I see you listed the different phases of your kit, now find out the mean time it takes to produce a certain population of the kits. Just a thought.
Being in business is not easy. As customers we want it and we want it now. As manufacturers it is their job to provide quality. Quality builds consumer confidence. You will enjoy your product more knowing it is on your own working properly than being in and out of the garage. So StopTech in my opinion is trying to provide consumers quality merchandise by sacrificing production time. As long as you have brakes on your car that are working waiting on a new set should not be detrimental.
StopTech as a suggestion a statisical analysis would help sovle some of your problems, if you have not done one thus far. It is complicated to explain here but doing a little business research to locate and improve the slow can help. I see you listed the different phases of your kit, now find out the mean time it takes to produce a certain population of the kits. Just a thought.
07-13-2006, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by lex350
This is so true. This is only a weekend car, lol. I hardly drive it. I just want it to look good and fill the wheels all nicely.
edit: I need to get the coilovers too so I can lower the car a little
edit: I need to get the coilovers too so I can lower the car a little
I am gettn the stop tech 14 set up too
in red though the platnium color is not bad though
07-14-2006, 07:24 AM
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wilric44,
Thanks for the support. I actually worked for the premier marketing research firm in the world for 5 1/2 years before coming to StopTech, so I (along with others) have applied plenty of strategic thinking to these issues. We've done plenty of time studies, analysis of specific assembly functions, batch consolodation, etc. Based on your post, my guess is that you would find this business rather fascinating. It's a constant cycle of chasing down bottlenecks and inefficiencies. When one problem is solved, ripples affect everything else down the chain. Then you're on to the next one. One thing is for certain, it's never boring!
BTW, I just saw only my second yellow 350Z up close yesterday. I really dig the color...it's very rich. Maybe I'm crazy, but does it have orange fleck in it? I guess I never paid that much attention before, but I just bought a yellow C5 Z06 recently, so now I'm comparing yellows. While I like my yellow, I was having a little 'yellow-envy' with the Z car. I just put on some black-centered Kinesis wheels like Lex's picture too.
Thanks for the support. I actually worked for the premier marketing research firm in the world for 5 1/2 years before coming to StopTech, so I (along with others) have applied plenty of strategic thinking to these issues. We've done plenty of time studies, analysis of specific assembly functions, batch consolodation, etc. Based on your post, my guess is that you would find this business rather fascinating. It's a constant cycle of chasing down bottlenecks and inefficiencies. When one problem is solved, ripples affect everything else down the chain. Then you're on to the next one. One thing is for certain, it's never boring!
BTW, I just saw only my second yellow 350Z up close yesterday. I really dig the color...it's very rich. Maybe I'm crazy, but does it have orange fleck in it? I guess I never paid that much attention before, but I just bought a yellow C5 Z06 recently, so now I'm comparing yellows. While I like my yellow, I was having a little 'yellow-envy' with the Z car. I just put on some black-centered Kinesis wheels like Lex's picture too.
07-14-2006, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ahmads350z
I am gettn the stop tech 14 set up too
in red though the platnium color is not bad though
in red though the platnium color is not bad though
. . . . J/K
(or am I 
)But for real, I really excited to get my BBK and I'm sure when I have them on the car everyone is going to love it.
Last edited by lex350; 07-14-2006 at 02:33 PM.
07-15-2006, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by lex350
Nice car, got to love the yellow. The stoptechs will look sweet on your car. Good thing your going with the red because the lead time on color is 120 days
. . . . J/K (or am I )
But for real, I really excited to get my BBK and I'm sure when I have them on the car everyone is going to love it.
. . . . J/K
(or am I )But for real, I really excited to get my BBK and I'm sure when I have them on the car everyone is going to love it.
how would u like to buy mine ?
read my thread for more info?
i am goin APS TT with a fully built Z engine=)
07-15-2006, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Ahmads350z
ya bro i exp the stoptech personally yesterday! man it was crazy the car braked frim 120 to 40 in a instant they are amazing..i see u are goin to get a TN kit
how would u like to buy mine ?
read my thread for more info?
i am goin APS TT with a fully built Z engine=)
how would u like to buy mine ?
read my thread for more info?
i am goin APS TT with a fully built Z engine=)
07-15-2006, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by lex350
I would buy your FI but my car already has the TN installed. It's getting tuned right now. Did you get the slot or drilled rotors? I can't wait to get these installed and then break them in, thats going to be the fun part.
i am gettn the drilled rotors ...honestly the sloted rotors do not look that great...the drilled look awesome here take a look at this Z
that looks ****en hott!
07-15-2006, 04:59 PM
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^ Sweet ride, drilled rotors look sick.
Ya I hope the car gets tuned correctly. Engine is pretty much stock right now but I have big plans.
Ya I hope the car gets tuned correctly
. Engine is pretty much stock right now but I have big plans.
07-16-2006, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by lex350
^ Sweet ride, drilled rotors look sick.
Ya I hope the car gets tuned correctly. Engine is pretty much stock right now but I have big plans.
Ya I hope the car gets tuned correctly
. Engine is pretty much stock right now but I have big plans.thats the max whp it can handle right???
07-17-2006, 06:08 AM
#97
Originally Posted by J Ritt
buzzardmountain,
It sure is easy to be a critic. You show me one other company that is as open about our business as we are...and you show me upper mgmt. at other brake manufacturers helping out end-user customers (and competitors' customers) as much as we do. Think about the fact that we make brakes for 450+ applications. Each one of them has a message board just like this one. It's not all that practical for myself and our employees to spend every waking second on the 350Z forum when we're trying to run a business growing at this rate. This forum gets a disproportionate amount of attention from us, and I think we're doing a solid job of serving the Z community. We have more great products for this platform than any other, and more published technical advice and info on our website than anybody else. So, if you think you can do a better job, send me your resume. I'm always looking for good sales guys. I'll put you in charge of dealing with customers on this forum.
It sure is easy to be a critic. You show me one other company that is as open about our business as we are...and you show me upper mgmt. at other brake manufacturers helping out end-user customers (and competitors' customers) as much as we do. Think about the fact that we make brakes for 450+ applications. Each one of them has a message board just like this one. It's not all that practical for myself and our employees to spend every waking second on the 350Z forum when we're trying to run a business growing at this rate. This forum gets a disproportionate amount of attention from us, and I think we're doing a solid job of serving the Z community. We have more great products for this platform than any other, and more published technical advice and info on our website than anybody else. So, if you think you can do a better job, send me your resume. I'm always looking for good sales guys. I'll put you in charge of dealing with customers on this forum.
You think I'm being a critic. I had to postpone my Stoptech order until my new Volks get here. I'm buying your 14" front and rear kit from one of your sponsored drivers. We've had contact between your sales and Mackin to try and figure out if that particular BBK will fit with the new offsets I need for my widebody kit.
In the end, I was advised to wait until the WB kit and new wheels arrive to verify fitament. Looks as if that's good advice, given your current situation.
09-07-2006, 01:32 PM
#98
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Originally Posted by lex350
Good luck on your order. Maybe well get them around the same time and we can post pictures of our cool BBK.
09-07-2006, 02:58 PM
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Things have been IN ORDER for no reason.
Korean car can never be compared to German car.
Made in China purse can never be compared to real authentic Louis Vouton purse.
Lemon can never be compared to orange.
And Stoptech is no exception: Should never be compared to Brembo.
Reputation doesn't happen over night. Brembo has been working hard for the past few decades to earn its status. In future, Stoptech may have as much reputation as brembo or even more but it'll have to earn it. NOT NOW. STILL HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO and GOOD LUCK.
Korean car can never be compared to German car.
Made in China purse can never be compared to real authentic Louis Vouton purse.
Lemon can never be compared to orange.
And Stoptech is no exception: Should never be compared to Brembo.
Reputation doesn't happen over night. Brembo has been working hard for the past few decades to earn its status. In future, Stoptech may have as much reputation as brembo or even more but it'll have to earn it. NOT NOW. STILL HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO and GOOD LUCK.