Any good sway bar set you guys would recommend?
07-08-2006, 05:39 AM
#21
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (564)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 19,266
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
The fact that the sway bar is larger than stock makes it perform better. Adjustments are great for marketing, but if the bar is the proper diameter and stiffness to begin with, there is no need for adjustment. The same can be said for adjustable coilovers (dampening adjustable). Many firms tout their coilovers are 16 way or 32 way adjustable. But when it comes down to it, the practical adjustment range of these items is also very very limited. I've got 32 way adjustable coilovers on my car (HKS). I've adjusted them all of 1 time - the day I installed them. Since then, no matter the conditions, I've not had any need, nor any desire, to play with the adjustments as the car does what I want consistently. I've tracked cars more times than I can count, and have never adjusted my sways either. My front is at the stiffer of the 2 settings, the rear is not adjustable at all, nor do I have any need for it to be...the car is literally the most neutral car I've ever tracked in it's current state. I've had the car on a wet track, dry track, R compunds, street tires. I've got my setup to the point where the only thing I need to change is my camber settings front and rear and that's it to go from street to track. For summer months I even run my track settings on the street as they seem to work very well with my street tires (S03's).
You do not necessarily want the least stiffest sways on a wet track, as its down once again to tires, alignment, preload, compression/rebound and LSD settings. It's not a zero sum game, and all these factors play into one another. Tire temps are the most important thing to moniter, and from a personal standpoint, I only ever start playing with sways on our track cars once the camber changes I am making fail to yield the results we want.
Yes there are other means to lower the CG, but how practical are they? Where are you going to remove weight from the top of the car without resorting to a carbon hatch (which have a very narrow market)? How much lower than stock can you mount the seat and how many people actually want that (I'm 5'11, I could not have the seat any lower or it would not be comofortable to drive).
Yes I've not only heard of customers bending Hotchkis bars (Subaru) but I've had to replace 2 of them so far - both on heavily tracked cars. Both have since switched to monster solid bars.
Again, the Hotchkis ones for the Z are excellent units, and hopefully the new versions wont have the problems the older ones did from a reliability standpoint.
For a solid bar, the best bang for the buck, bar none, is the Progress setup. It's only potential downside is that the rear does not clear all exhausts due to its design. That is why we tend to prefer the Cusco over the Progress, as I've yet to find an exhaust it did not clear.
You do not necessarily want the least stiffest sways on a wet track, as its down once again to tires, alignment, preload, compression/rebound and LSD settings. It's not a zero sum game, and all these factors play into one another. Tire temps are the most important thing to moniter, and from a personal standpoint, I only ever start playing with sways on our track cars once the camber changes I am making fail to yield the results we want.
Yes there are other means to lower the CG, but how practical are they? Where are you going to remove weight from the top of the car without resorting to a carbon hatch (which have a very narrow market)? How much lower than stock can you mount the seat and how many people actually want that (I'm 5'11, I could not have the seat any lower or it would not be comofortable to drive).
Yes I've not only heard of customers bending Hotchkis bars (Subaru) but I've had to replace 2 of them so far - both on heavily tracked cars. Both have since switched to monster solid bars.
Again, the Hotchkis ones for the Z are excellent units, and hopefully the new versions wont have the problems the older ones did from a reliability standpoint.
For a solid bar, the best bang for the buck, bar none, is the Progress setup. It's only potential downside is that the rear does not clear all exhausts due to its design. That is why we tend to prefer the Cusco over the Progress, as I've yet to find an exhaust it did not clear.
07-08-2006, 05:55 AM
#22
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Albany, GA
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I also track my Z. I took time and tuned my sways to where I like them. When I installed them, I followed the manufactures recommendation on the setting. The car had so much understeer it wasn't funny, so I just made a few adjustments (one at a time and testing) and now I have them where I love them.
As far as coilovers - I adjust my dampening all the time, for different tracks. And coilovers are a practical way of lowering your CG.
That sucks about the Subaru sways, have you had any problems with the Z Hotchkis?
Probably should stop this discussion, but it is really interesting to me how many different point of views there are for getting the highest performance out of your car.
Where do you track your car? Would love to see it on track and talk over more handling with you.
As far as coilovers - I adjust my dampening all the time, for different tracks. And coilovers are a practical way of lowering your CG.
That sucks about the Subaru sways, have you had any problems with the Z Hotchkis?
Probably should stop this discussion, but it is really interesting to me how many different point of views there are for getting the highest performance out of your car.
Where do you track your car? Would love to see it on track and talk over more handling with you.
07-08-2006, 08:50 AM
#23
You said non adjustable is bad, yet cusco is non adjustable but its 173% stiffer in the rear. It is made specifically to work with the front. Yes its a little harsh to have that in the rear but who cares. Its cusco, its a big company that puts nice suspension parts on various japanese cars and I trust them.
I'm installing the bars in two hours, i'll let you know if they are better than hotchkis or not.
I'm installing the bars in two hours, i'll let you know if they are better than hotchkis or not.
07-08-2006, 08:55 AM
#24
Registered User
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe so, I know the Eibachs also do, we have some pics here of HKS with Eibach:
http://www.gridesinc.com/Showroom.html#hks
http://www.gridesinc.com/Showroom.html#hks
Originally Posted by IslandZavage
Will the Cusco's fit with HKS exhaust?
07-08-2006, 09:03 AM
#25
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (564)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 19,266
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
the only issues we've had on the Hotckis are the older versions and the bracketry. Now that they have the collars welded to the bars, I am hopeful that will stop 
My car mainly sees Lime Rock events as its the closes to us
My car mainly sees Lime Rock events as its the closes to us
07-08-2006, 09:33 AM
#27
Registered User
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Posts: 948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Eibach's do, we have pictures comparing them to stock here:
http://www.gridesinc.com/Showroom.html#eibach
http://www.gridesinc.com/Showroom.html#eibach
Originally Posted by A_16
do the sways follow the stock lines............ie will my borla true dual get in the way of any of these?
07-08-2006, 11:33 PM
#30
Originally Posted by IslandZavage
Who has the new Hotchkis version with welded collars in stock so i can place an order.... PM me please with price shipped....
07-09-2006, 05:35 AM
#31
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Albany, GA
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Z1 Performance
the only issues we've had on the Hotckis are the older versions and the bracketry. Now that they have the collars welded to the bars, I am hopeful that will stop
My car mainly sees Lime Rock events as its the closes to us
My car mainly sees Lime Rock events as its the closes to us
07-12-2006, 09:02 AM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have to agree with Z1, in response to 97supratt
Lighter is always better in competitive racing. Big and heavy gives off the impression of being rugged and stiff, but you have to consider material composition. Higher end companies have hollow chromoly bars that are lighter and equally as stiff as a heavy solid mild steel bar (yuck).
Unfortunately, none of the manufacturers post the swaybar spring rates, even though going off outer diameters gives the wrong impression ex: one bar is 28mm chromoly, and the other is 32mm solid mild steel. Most people would think the 32mm bar is better simply because it is bigger, but depending on the inner diameter of the chromoly bar, the 28mm could potentially be a bit stiffer than the larger bar.
I don't conform to the idea (ever so prevalent on internet car forums) that more adjustments = better. An anti-swaybar is probably one of the last things I will put on my car. I don't believe anti-swaybars are intended to be used as the 'end-all-be-all' for suspension tuning. There are much better ways of going about changing the handling dynamics of the car through spring rates, ride heights, and tire pressures. The anti-swaybar should just be used to balance out the suspension, making it neutral as possible.
From what I've read, making a stabilizer too stiff increases lateral load forces on the tires to the point of causing them to prematurely lose traction, which means that it can actually hurt your handling performance. "...everthing in moderation"
That said, I will probably complement my GF210 setup with a set of Tanabe chromoly bars.
Lighter is always better in competitive racing. Big and heavy gives off the impression of being rugged and stiff, but you have to consider material composition. Higher end companies have hollow chromoly bars that are lighter and equally as stiff as a heavy solid mild steel bar (yuck).
Unfortunately, none of the manufacturers post the swaybar spring rates, even though going off outer diameters gives the wrong impression ex: one bar is 28mm chromoly, and the other is 32mm solid mild steel. Most people would think the 32mm bar is better simply because it is bigger, but depending on the inner diameter of the chromoly bar, the 28mm could potentially be a bit stiffer than the larger bar.
I don't conform to the idea (ever so prevalent on internet car forums) that more adjustments = better. An anti-swaybar is probably one of the last things I will put on my car. I don't believe anti-swaybars are intended to be used as the 'end-all-be-all' for suspension tuning. There are much better ways of going about changing the handling dynamics of the car through spring rates, ride heights, and tire pressures. The anti-swaybar should just be used to balance out the suspension, making it neutral as possible.
From what I've read, making a stabilizer too stiff increases lateral load forces on the tires to the point of causing them to prematurely lose traction, which means that it can actually hurt your handling performance. "...everthing in moderation"
That said, I will probably complement my GF210 setup with a set of Tanabe chromoly bars.
07-12-2006, 12:24 PM
#33
Originally Posted by dolemizer
I have to agree with Z1, in response to 97supratt
Lighter is always better in competitive racing. Big and heavy gives off the impression of being rugged and stiff, but you have to consider material composition. Higher end companies have hollow chromoly bars that are lighter and equally as stiff as a heavy solid mild steel bar (yuck).
Unfortunately, none of the manufacturers post the swaybar spring rates, even though going off outer diameters gives the wrong impression ex: one bar is 28mm chromoly, and the other is 32mm solid mild steel. Most people would think the 32mm bar is better simply because it is bigger, but depending on the inner diameter of the chromoly bar, the 28mm could potentially be a bit stiffer than the larger bar.
I don't conform to the idea (ever so prevalent on internet car forums) that more adjustments = better. An anti-swaybar is probably one of the last things I will put on my car. I don't believe anti-swaybars are intended to be used as the 'end-all-be-all' for suspension tuning. There are much better ways of going about changing the handling dynamics of the car through spring rates, ride heights, and tire pressures. The anti-swaybar should just be used to balance out the suspension, making it neutral as possible.
From what I've read, making a stabilizer too stiff increases lateral load forces on the tires to the point of causing them to prematurely lose traction, which means that it can actually hurt your handling performance. "...everthing in moderation"
That said, I will probably complement my GF210 setup with a set of Tanabe chromoly bars.
Lighter is always better in competitive racing. Big and heavy gives off the impression of being rugged and stiff, but you have to consider material composition. Higher end companies have hollow chromoly bars that are lighter and equally as stiff as a heavy solid mild steel bar (yuck).
Unfortunately, none of the manufacturers post the swaybar spring rates, even though going off outer diameters gives the wrong impression ex: one bar is 28mm chromoly, and the other is 32mm solid mild steel. Most people would think the 32mm bar is better simply because it is bigger, but depending on the inner diameter of the chromoly bar, the 28mm could potentially be a bit stiffer than the larger bar.
I don't conform to the idea (ever so prevalent on internet car forums) that more adjustments = better. An anti-swaybar is probably one of the last things I will put on my car. I don't believe anti-swaybars are intended to be used as the 'end-all-be-all' for suspension tuning. There are much better ways of going about changing the handling dynamics of the car through spring rates, ride heights, and tire pressures. The anti-swaybar should just be used to balance out the suspension, making it neutral as possible.
From what I've read, making a stabilizer too stiff increases lateral load forces on the tires to the point of causing them to prematurely lose traction, which means that it can actually hurt your handling performance. "...everthing in moderation"
That said, I will probably complement my GF210 setup with a set of Tanabe chromoly bars.
My setup right now is near perfect for me, except I need to buy tokico D-spec shocks.
07-12-2006, 01:28 PM
#35
Originally Posted by IslandZavage
so how do you like the Cuscos? What exhaust sytems wont it fit? Im looking to getting the HKS duals..but will it fit stock exhaust for now?
07-12-2006, 03:37 PM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Albany, GA
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by dolemizer
From what I've read, making a stabilizer too stiff increases lateral load forces on the tires to the point of causing them to prematurely lose traction, which means that it can actually hurt your handling performance. "...everthing in moderation"
.
.
I also agree that the best mod anyone can do is tires! Hands down the best way to get more performance out of the car. The next best mod is to get weight off the car (especially unsprung and rotating weight, then sprung static weight).
So if you are confused - thats fine. Just wait and my suggestion is see if you can take or ride (or better yet drive) a car with the modifications you are looking for.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
xirtam
Zs & Gs For Sale
5
10-03-2015 02:06 PM