what brakes are the best on the 350Z? The Brembos on the track? Or the Aftermarket Stoptech ones?

Because i will be purchasing a 350Z soon. It will be either track?
Or should i go with performance with aftermarkets stoptech brakes?
Please Reply thanks.

 

I thought we beat this subject to death in one of the other threads?
It kind of depends on your tastes and what you want to do with the car. Are you going to race it? Is it also going to be your daily driver or a show car? Personally, I got a silverstone track. I thought about getting a Performance and upgrading the brakes but my Z will be daily driven. Soooo: brembos+rays+factory warranty = Dmitry got a track model. I love my rays and I think brembo makes great brakes so to me spending the extra money for a track was a far better deal than getting performance and upgrading the brakes and wheels for a lot more money. Just my .02


Dmitry

 

I just happened to be at the track when StopTech was testing their three new brake kits for this application. They fully tested the regular 350Z, the Track model, and then the three brake kits (332mm front, 355mm front, and 355mm 4-wheel kit).

I did an extensive write-up of the day I spent with them at the track. It was pretty clear that all three StopTech kits, from the $1995 332mm front kit to the $4495 4-wheel 355mm kit, beat the factory Brembo set-up on the Track model.

You can see for yourself: Track Testing the 350Z

 

Woah there! Stoptech used Toyo Proxes on their car, and the Brembo car had the Bridgestone RE40s. Let's play fair here. The rubber on the wheels has A LOT to do with the stopping distance as well.

So yeh, Stoptechs w/ Toyo Proxes can save you 5 feet over the Brembos with Bridgestone RE40s. I am willing to bet my Track Edition with Proxes can beat the Stoptechs. hehe.

I don't think I could justify $4k for new stoptechs when i have the beautiful stock brembos. And I am sure the Stoptechs are great for non Track owners, but why not wait for the full Brembos to come out to compare?

 

I think for most people considering aftermarket brakes, the stopping distance is not the issue, but instead, the primary conern is the temp of the brakes after the stops.

In that sense, the Front only stoptechs are better on the front but the Tracks are better on the rear. If you go with the four wheel stoptech kit you will have better temps all around, but you will have almost fully paid for the cost of the track model (at least when compared to the performance Z).

So with the track model you are basically paying for brakes, wheels, and aero kit.

Therefore, if you plan on racing with different wheels and slicks, then you've eliminated one of the benefits of the track. If you want excellent braking performance, you can get the Stoptech 13" front kit for <$2000. If you buy aftermarket Brembo's, you will pay quite a bit more than the stoptechs, so at that point you may want to just get the track model Z.

I personally would get a track if you plan on staying stock, and get a different version if you plan on modding, especially if you are planning on getting race wheels.

-D'oh!

 

i ditto everything that d'oh says.

how's everything with you?

 

I dont think "most" aftermarket brake buyers are focused on temperature. Thats a broad assumption.

Stoptechs are great!

But the fact is, they used hi-performance racing tires on their Z, and kept the horrendous Bridgestone RE40 on the challenger. That was my only beef.

Check out the Proxes pic i posted above. Look at the HUGE side wall on that sucker. You can fit that on a 747.

 

That's not true. The same tires were used on the tests of the standard, Track Model, 332mm front StopTech, and 355mm front StopTech kits. The 4-wheel kit was tested on another car (a 3rd car) that was delivered to the track in the afternoon and that car had different tires as well as some suspension modifications. My article wasn't clear on that and, in fact, as I reread it, my write-up makes it sound like the same car was used for the 4-wheel tests as for the two front brake tests.

That wasn't the case and the misinterpretation is my fault. I waited so long after the December tests to write the article that I forgot some details and wrote from memory and photographs rather than my notes. The fact that the 3rd car was the same color as the Performance Model is what made me slip up. Your comments made me realize what I had done. Doh!

I'll go back in and edit the article so that this is crystal clear. It was very important to StopTech that the testing be done on the same cars and with the same tires. (They always do this.) It was so late by the time we began testing the 4-wheel kit, there was simply no way to finish and the goal was simply to get a sanity check on a car that was already partially set up. If we had 4 more hours of daylight, we would have installed the 4-wheel kit on the Performance Model rather than the 3rd car.

 

Done! Thanks for catching that! Please let me know if you find anything else in there that is confusing. I appreciate the comments.

http://www.zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm

 

Correction, the same tires were used on the Performance Model, Track Model, and 332mm front StopTech kit.

355mm front and 355mm 4-wheel kits were tested on the car with Toyo Proxes.

 

DZeckhausen:

Thanks for the clarification... By no means do I have something against Stoptech. I would have got those if my car didnt have brembos.

I just saw the "PR" on the picture and I own Proxes now so the tires looked familiar.

GREAT ARTICLE by the way.

 

Thanks. I'm glad you spotted and commented on the tires. The article is even "greater" now that I've fixed all the errors. Is my face red!

 

Since there are alot of factors that can affect a brake test I came up with my own test.

Mr. Zeckhausen,

You carry both Brembo and Stoptech right??
Which do you like better?

Here's my test.

Take 1 car and have Brembo and Stoptech send you 1/2 a brake kit. Put Brembo on the left and Stoptech on the right. Speed up to 120mph. Slam on the brakes and let the car decide. If it pulls to the left then isn't Brembo the better system?? or to the right and Stoptech is better??

I came up with this after I saw the Stoptech testing. I put the Brembo 14" kit on my car and I swear it made a larger improvement than 3'.

I think my test is the only way we will ever know the truth.

 

Please, call me Dave!

My first reaction was that you were joking. But then I read it a couple times and didn't see see any emoticons (smiley face or winky face) and I don't know you well enough to know if you are pulling my leg, so ....

I'll answer this as if it was serious. If it's not, then I'll feel silly. Such is life.

Your experiment is based on the premise that more brake torque is better than less brake torque. In other words, whichever brake applies more clamping force will cause the car to veer in that direction.

The problem is that more brake torque does not make a better brake kit. Let's assume, for the sake of an imaginary implementation of your experiment, that the StopTech kit had only half the brake torque of the Brembo kit and everything else was equal.

If you step on the brakes lightly, the Brembo brake would apply twice the brake torque as the StopTech brake and the car would veer right. (Let's assume Brembo is on the right, StopTech is on the left.)

OK, that won't work, so let's step HARD on the brakes to the point where ABS is engaged. Well, as soon as the ABS system notices that the right front wheel is at impending lock-up, it will begin to cycle the hydraulic pressure to the Brembo brake caliper and the car will continue to brake in a straight line.

OK, it's clear that won't work either. So let's now do it again with ABS disabled. Step on the brakes hard and the Brembo brake will lock up almost immediately and the StopTech brake will not. Because the sliding tire has less grip at lockup than the other tire which is still rotating, the car will pull to the left, toward the StopTech side.

So now we've got two opposite results depending on how hard we brake and on whether the ABS is on or off. It's clear the experiment isn't going to tell us what we want.

The right way to test these brakes is to bring the same car to the track on the same day with a radar gun and measure repeated stops from 60, 80, and 100 mph just like the test that was conducted in my write-up.

As you pointed out, I sell both Brembo and StopTech and I often get the question about which brake kit is "better". In order to answer that question, I pose lots of questions to the user: what are his/her goals for the brake upgrade? Will the car be tracked? What sort of wheels are being running now and do they have plans or are they willing to change their wheels? Often a brake kit decision will be made simply by what fits without spacers under the stock wheels.

There's no clear cut winner. StopTech tends to have better balanced front-only kits than Brembo and as a result may have a 1-3 foot advantage in stopping distance during a controlled brake test. For real world panic stops, both kits offer huge benefits that are far greater than this little 1-3 foot difference between the kits. A fixed, 4-piston caliper is going to give you better reaction time to unexpected situations because you aren't trying to move a 17 pound, cast iron, floating caliper when you hit that brake pedal. Rather, you are moving four tiny caliper pistons that weigh a few ounces. Instead of several inches of pedal travel where nothing happens, the kits give you shorter throw and nearly instant, linear brake response. This is NOT important to racers because racers can compensate for any delay in the onset of braking by simply braking earlier. But you don't have that luxury on the street when a deer jumps in front of you.

As an example of the magnitude of distance we are discussing, let's assume a 0.2 second advantage in reaction time with the Brembo or StopTech kits over the stock brakes. If you're going 80mph, that translates into roughly 24 feet further that you are going to go with the stock brakes even if the aftermarket brakes are no better than stock in the stopping distance test. In fact, the brakes could turn out to be 5 feet WORSE than stock and you would still be better off in a panic stop from 80mph because your car would come to a stop 19 feet sooner (24 feet - 5 feet).

Does this make sense? That's why I ask lots of questions to the user before I give them advice on which brake kit is best for them. Believe it or not, some customers pick Brembo over StopTech because they like the appearance of the Brembo logo more. (Either kit can be ordered without logos.)

By the way, I just sent out a 4-wheel brake kit to a BMW Z8 owner in silver. So far, all the Z8 owners have picked silver, which is a newly available custom color from StopTech. Brembo has had silver for a while and doesn't charge extra for it. In addition, Brembo will paint your calipers any color you want (for a price). This sort of thing matters to lots of people and affects which kit they perceive as better.

 

They used the same wheels and tires to test the 332mmx32mm StopTech kit against the two stock brake systems (Performance Model and Track Model). It was only the 355mm front and 4-wheel kits that were tested using the car with the Toyo Proxes.

If StopTech can get their little 332mm kit to do better than the stock brakes using the same tires, I have no doubt they can do the same with the bigger brake kit.

 

Dave, thanks for sharing your well informed/writen opinions.

A question.........?

What rear pads do you recommend for the race track with the 13" StopTech front kit? Others have mentioned excessive rear pad wear with OEM rear pads.

 

You forgot to mention "and LONG!" I'm not surprised that folks who track the 350Z with a StopTech front-only kit are experiencing excessive rear pad wear. The problem is due to the high tempertures of the undersized 292mm x 16mm rear rotor. That rotor simply doesn't have the thermal capacity (i.e., sufficient mass) to absorb the heat generated by high speed braking at some tracks. And it is so skinny, that the air gap doesn't allow much convection at all, so cooling is almost entirely due to radiation. (Plus a little conduction.)

Has anyone looked into purchasing the rear brake components of the Track model and bolting them on? I would have to check with StopTech to see what this would do to bias, but if it worked, at least your rear rotor size would grow to 322mm x 22mm which should significantly drop temperatures at the track. I don't know if the parts are reasonable (i.e., less than the cost of a StopTech rear kit!) but it might be worth investigating.

I don't know what sorts of race pads are available for the 350Z rear brakes. But my gut feeling is that something in the performance league of Pagid Orange or Porterfield R4 (not R4S!) would be just the ticket. I'll poke around and see what I can learn. Don't hesitate to remind me if you hear nothing from me in a week or so. I tend to get distracted by a multitude of projects. For example, the Brembo E39 M5 rear brake kits just became available today and the E46 M3 rear kits are almost ready. Lots of excitement around that. The phone is ringing constantly. Everyone wants to be first to have something!

 

This may be the answer to your rear pad question!

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=21818

 

Dave, I just finished my 1st StopTech pad brake in......I like a lot.

I found this rear rotor listed on Stillen's web site. Do you think it would be worthwhile to add? I also found in their catalog that they are working with AP an a 2 piston rear caliper for the non-Brembo Z's. I'm not sure it will be necessary, but it can't hurt!

 

Actually it CAN hurt if Stillen didn't do the proper engineering to match the factory brake torque. Can you post a link to the details on this rear brake upgrade? If the caliper piston size is too small, it can increase the front bias of the system and result in longer stopping distances. If the caliper piston size is too large, it can have the same negative impact on stopping distances as well as result in unstable braking if ABS is disabled.

It would be great if it turns out they only increased the thermal capacity without changing the brake torque. If they did this at a price LOWER than the StopTech rear kit, then you've got a winner.

Let's hold off until we can get some specifications. I went to the Stillen site and didn't find it. Can anyone help by pointing me to the right place? Thanks!