Air Suspension Questions
#61
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Originally Posted by universalAirSus
Yes you can. However, With the coilover's you can adjust the bag up and down ontop of the shock. for your desired height.
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1. If I kept it at a certain ride height, would air leak, and I would have to refill the air daily?
2. How close to an oem ride quality would this be compaired too.
3. How long does the compressor take to fill up the tank
4. How many ups and downs can I do on one full tank.
5. Do I need any special tools to install your product ( any cutting/voiding warranty)
6. What is the estimated installation time.
7. Let's say a line bursts/leaks, will the car bottom out and drag.
8. You are saying that the position of the solenoid determines the "spring rate" I believe. Can you give lengths of install to equal oem quality.
example 5" Softer than oem 4" = oem 3" hard 2" Very stiff.
9. Can I mount the compressor outside the cabin to avoid the loud noise. If not, can I mount it in the spare tire area void of free air travel thus eliminating any heat transfer from the compressors heat sink.
10. Sorry for so many question. I really like your product and hope to be one of the first to install.
2. How close to an oem ride quality would this be compaired too.
3. How long does the compressor take to fill up the tank
4. How many ups and downs can I do on one full tank.
5. Do I need any special tools to install your product ( any cutting/voiding warranty)
6. What is the estimated installation time.
7. Let's say a line bursts/leaks, will the car bottom out and drag.
8. You are saying that the position of the solenoid determines the "spring rate" I believe. Can you give lengths of install to equal oem quality.
example 5" Softer than oem 4" = oem 3" hard 2" Very stiff.
9. Can I mount the compressor outside the cabin to avoid the loud noise. If not, can I mount it in the spare tire area void of free air travel thus eliminating any heat transfer from the compressors heat sink.
10. Sorry for so many question. I really like your product and hope to be one of the first to install.
Last edited by M3to350z; 08-22-2006 at 10:28 AM.
#63
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Originally Posted by M3to350z
1. If I kept it at a certain ride height, would air leak, and I would have to refill the air daily?
Air should not leak out of the system. If it is you need to find the leak
2. How close to an oem ride quality would this be compaired too.
Regular install is slightly stiffer over large bumps a decrease in body roll
3. How long does the compressor take to fill up the tank
from the point they turn on (165) to when the turn off (200) it will take aprox a minute to refill
4. How many ups and downs can I do on one full tank.
From the point that you cant drive the vehicle aprox 4-5 times without letting the tank refill
5. Do I need any special tools to install your product ( any cutting/voiding warranty)
Spring compressor. rest is just standard hand tools. There is no cutting or modification to the car itself. Other then a couple holes to run lines and wires through
6. What is the estimated installation time.
10-15 Man Hours depending on tools.
7. Let's say a line bursts/leaks, will the car bottom out and drag.
That one corner will drop. Chances of line bursting is very very low as long as you install them away from exaust and moving parts. (same line and fittings and semi's air brakes)
8. You are saying that the position of the solenoid determines the "spring rate" I believe. Can you give lengths of install to equal oem quality.
example 5" Softer than oem 4" = oem 3" hard 2" Very stiff.
Say 0-24" stiffer 24-48" close to oem 48"+ softer
9. Can I mount the compressor outside the cabin to avoid the loud noise. If not, can I mount it in the spare tire area void of free air travel thus eliminating any heat transfer from the compressors heat sink.
You can mount the compressors anywhere, unfortunally there isnt much room in the car to work with. The cabin noise with the compressors isn't too bad, its just like a slight humm for about a minute while they are refilling the tank. They can be hidden away from free air travel, but if you "play" with the system for long periods of time (alot of ups and downs) its best to mount with airflow
10. Sorry for so many question. I really like your product and hope to be one of the first to install.
No problem, i am here to help!
Air should not leak out of the system. If it is you need to find the leak
2. How close to an oem ride quality would this be compaired too.
Regular install is slightly stiffer over large bumps a decrease in body roll
3. How long does the compressor take to fill up the tank
from the point they turn on (165) to when the turn off (200) it will take aprox a minute to refill
4. How many ups and downs can I do on one full tank.
From the point that you cant drive the vehicle aprox 4-5 times without letting the tank refill
5. Do I need any special tools to install your product ( any cutting/voiding warranty)
Spring compressor. rest is just standard hand tools. There is no cutting or modification to the car itself. Other then a couple holes to run lines and wires through
6. What is the estimated installation time.
10-15 Man Hours depending on tools.
7. Let's say a line bursts/leaks, will the car bottom out and drag.
That one corner will drop. Chances of line bursting is very very low as long as you install them away from exaust and moving parts. (same line and fittings and semi's air brakes)
8. You are saying that the position of the solenoid determines the "spring rate" I believe. Can you give lengths of install to equal oem quality.
example 5" Softer than oem 4" = oem 3" hard 2" Very stiff.
Say 0-24" stiffer 24-48" close to oem 48"+ softer
9. Can I mount the compressor outside the cabin to avoid the loud noise. If not, can I mount it in the spare tire area void of free air travel thus eliminating any heat transfer from the compressors heat sink.
You can mount the compressors anywhere, unfortunally there isnt much room in the car to work with. The cabin noise with the compressors isn't too bad, its just like a slight humm for about a minute while they are refilling the tank. They can be hidden away from free air travel, but if you "play" with the system for long periods of time (alot of ups and downs) its best to mount with airflow
10. Sorry for so many question. I really like your product and hope to be one of the first to install.
No problem, i am here to help!
#64
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1. How fast does the car travel from top to bottom
2. How fast does the car travel from bottom to top.
3. Can I get back to my stock ride without buying anything and sell your system to a friend as a whole without the next owner having to buy any parts.
4. What is our final price shipped to Los Angeles
5. What is your installation cost if we drive to SAC.
2. How fast does the car travel from bottom to top.
3. Can I get back to my stock ride without buying anything and sell your system to a friend as a whole without the next owner having to buy any parts.
4. What is our final price shipped to Los Angeles
5. What is your installation cost if we drive to SAC.
#65
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1. Can you install a bump stop so that if the car happanes to loose air, it will bottom out on the bump stop, rather than the car itself.
2. Do you have any adjustability in how far its maximum stroke is and minimum stroke.
3. What is the total stroke of your system.
4. Do you have better pictures of the "switches". Everything else will be hidden if I am not correct?
2. Do you have any adjustability in how far its maximum stroke is and minimum stroke.
3. What is the total stroke of your system.
4. Do you have better pictures of the "switches". Everything else will be hidden if I am not correct?
#67
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Originally Posted by M3to350z
1. How fast does the car travel from top to bottom
2. How fast does the car travel from bottom to top.
3. Can I get back to my stock ride without buying anything and sell your system to a friend as a whole without the next owner having to buy any parts.
4. What is our final price shipped to Los Angeles
5. What is your installation cost if we drive to SAC.
2. How fast does the car travel from bottom to top.
3. Can I get back to my stock ride without buying anything and sell your system to a friend as a whole without the next owner having to buy any parts.
4. What is our final price shipped to Los Angeles
5. What is your installation cost if we drive to SAC.
3. Yes its a bolt in kit. If your friend has the same car he will just have to bolt on his. If he has a different car, typically you will have to replace the airline, and different brackets.
4. 2316.63 after tax
5. We charge 1,000 on install if you bring the car out here (San Bernardino)
#68
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Originally Posted by M3to350z
1. Can you install a bump stop so that if the car happanes to loose air, it will bottom out on the bump stop, rather than the car itself.
2. Do you have any adjustability in how far its maximum stroke is and minimum stroke.
3. What is the total stroke of your system.
4. Do you have better pictures of the "switches". Everything else will be hidden if I am not correct?
2. Do you have any adjustability in how far its maximum stroke is and minimum stroke.
3. What is the total stroke of your system.
4. Do you have better pictures of the "switches". Everything else will be hidden if I am not correct?
Layed out
Lifted up
Switchbox.
You will see the tank and compressors in the trunk.
#69
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Originally Posted by universalAirSus
That is correct. i am waiting for the testing data to get back to me to show the difference between valve placement over the spring curve.
thx
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Originally Posted by palepony
is the testing done already? or is it that it is planned to be done in the future? what tools are used in your testing?
thx
thx
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Were you able to get the spring rates yet???
I've been looking around, and I've found four differnt airbag options at this point...
Here is a TINYURL and a purchase price of each option. I'm not exactly sure what each of these kits includes at this point...
Does anyone have any experience with any of the competition?
http://tinyurl.com/owzqj - AirRunner ~ 3,900
http://tinyurl.com/p6shb - Universal Air ~ 2,300
http://tinyurl.com/eklyv - Roberuta Cup Kits ~ 4,200 (Front+Rear)
http://tinyurl.com/znjcf - Airbagit.com ~ 2,400
At this piont it looks like the Universal Air is the most echonomical option... Then again I don't know if each of these are complete and include everything needed etc. I would hope so... But hey you never know...
spdkils
I've been looking around, and I've found four differnt airbag options at this point...
Here is a TINYURL and a purchase price of each option. I'm not exactly sure what each of these kits includes at this point...
Does anyone have any experience with any of the competition?
http://tinyurl.com/owzqj - AirRunner ~ 3,900
http://tinyurl.com/p6shb - Universal Air ~ 2,300
http://tinyurl.com/eklyv - Roberuta Cup Kits ~ 4,200 (Front+Rear)
http://tinyurl.com/znjcf - Airbagit.com ~ 2,400
At this piont it looks like the Universal Air is the most echonomical option... Then again I don't know if each of these are complete and include everything needed etc. I would hope so... But hey you never know...
spdkils
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Originally Posted by spdkils
Were you able to get the spring rates yet???
I've been looking around, and I've found four differnt airbag options at this point...
Here is a TINYURL and a purchase price of each option. I'm not exactly sure what each of these kits includes at this point...
Does anyone have any experience with any of the competition?
http://tinyurl.com/owzqj - AirRunner ~ 3,900
http://tinyurl.com/p6shb - Universal Air ~ 2,300
http://tinyurl.com/eklyv - Roberuta Cup Kits ~ 4,200 (Front+Rear)
http://tinyurl.com/znjcf - Airbagit.com ~ 2,400
At this piont it looks like the Universal Air is the most echonomical option... Then again I don't know if each of these are complete and include everything needed etc. I would hope so... But hey you never know...
spdkils
I've been looking around, and I've found four differnt airbag options at this point...
Here is a TINYURL and a purchase price of each option. I'm not exactly sure what each of these kits includes at this point...
Does anyone have any experience with any of the competition?
http://tinyurl.com/owzqj - AirRunner ~ 3,900
http://tinyurl.com/p6shb - Universal Air ~ 2,300
http://tinyurl.com/eklyv - Roberuta Cup Kits ~ 4,200 (Front+Rear)
http://tinyurl.com/znjcf - Airbagit.com ~ 2,400
At this piont it looks like the Universal Air is the most echonomical option... Then again I don't know if each of these are complete and include everything needed etc. I would hope so... But hey you never know...
spdkils
A few other things to keep in mind is to compair the kits and what is coming in them. I.e. the air runner kit With the electric valves is over 4k. However they do also include a set of KYB shocks with their kits where as i don't include shocks.
Roberuta Cup Kits are great for up and down, no where in between.
Airbagit.com.... well just do a search on the forum and you will see what people have said about their experiences....
Also the forum discount is 2150 for our kit shipped in the Cont. U.S.
In case your wondering why our kits are so affordable its because we use the same bag in allot of different applications to keep cost of production low. We are able to do this because of our patented internal chamber design so we just need to make brackets specifically for each vehicle.
As far as the other components we have taken all of our experience and supplied the highest quality available that no-one else does.
All of our fittings are D.O.T. Approved so they don't leak. Our Air tank is made from polished, stainless steel so there will be no rust to damage the air system.
Valves are water-proof and electric so they will not be damaged with normal use (rated at 10,000,000 cycles before failure)
2 - 100% duty compressors rated at 200 psi. They are the Heaviest duty, Highest pressure compressor made by Viair (Extremely good name in the industry). Compared to 150 psi and 50% duty. Not to mention allot higher output so you don't hear them running forever. We run 2 compressors for twice as fast of a fill time and failsafe reliability.
Also sleeve bags have a shorter life and a "softer" ride then bellows. We have designed up our bellow bags to give allot more of a "sporty" ride then the luxurious ride typically shown with bags (floaty feeling)
#73
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Originally Posted by palepony
is the testing done already? or is it that it is planned to be done in the future? what tools are used in your testing?
thx
thx
Please note that these are Static Data Charts. If the bag was not in motion. With the bag in motion the spring rate will change depending on the amount of air line that is between the bag and the valve.
The less airline between the bag and valve will cause the volume to decrease and cause the air pressure to increase more drasticly causing a higher spring rate. I have also done a test measuring the amount that the air pressure will increase as we decrease the height of the bag.
#76
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Originally Posted by universalAirSus
I will get the force chart on the bags and post them up with the break down per inch of compression.
What i am talking about is that you have the ability to adjust the force change per inch depending on how much volume is being compressed.
i.e. full extention to half compression with the valves directly ontop of the bags will give you alot higher rate then with them further away.
What i am talking about is that you have the ability to adjust the force change per inch depending on how much volume is being compressed.
i.e. full extention to half compression with the valves directly ontop of the bags will give you alot higher rate then with them further away.
when you consider the volume of air inside the bag, you must also count the air in the line from the bag to the valve. Essentially, the line is holding volume as well. it will take more air to fill the bags at say, oh, 25psi with the valves mounted on the other side of the car say, front bags to rear trunk mounted valves as an example.... If my understanding is correct, the more "space" in the system that can be occupied by the air, the longer it will take to compress this air volume under compression??
Basically, what i'm getting from this is that you'll have a more controlled, and faster reacting suspension if the valve was mounted lets say, on the bag, or right by it, and if you had the valve mounted much farther away, you would have more overall volume to compress, and thus have a suspension that is slower to react?
With that said, if i am on the right path, this might mean a more sloppy feel of the suspension when the valves are mounted farther away?
I installed and did my own tuning and kit for my honda a few years back so
I understand all the dynamics of an air ride suspension for the show purposes, and what not, and understand various components and such in kits for this purpose, but when talking about air ride and performance/spring rates etc... i'm still struggling to understand...
#77
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i forgot, from personal experience, i really like the features of the dakota digital electronic switch setup, it's more precise than a normal switch setup, but you pay the extra price. It's display tho would be easier to integrate into a car, for a more clean look. VIAR compressors are really nice, those are the ones you want in your system
if you are interested in more "play time" up and down, you can just swap out to a bigger tank right? Space permitting of course....
looks to be a nice kit
if you are interested in more "play time" up and down, you can just swap out to a bigger tank right? Space permitting of course....
looks to be a nice kit
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This is very good new to me. I've always wondered if their was soemthing I could get along with a body kit so I could rais it for when I need to go ove those pesky speed bumps.
I will definately be thinking of this when I get a body kit but that's not till after I save for my F/I plan.
I will definately be thinking of this when I get a body kit but that's not till after I save for my F/I plan.
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Originally Posted by Kallusive350z
This bring back memories of my old accord on air..... sigh..
when you consider the volume of air inside the bag, you must also count the air in the line from the bag to the valve. Essentially, the line is holding volume as well. it will take more air to fill the bags at say, oh, 25psi with the valves mounted on the other side of the car say, front bags to rear trunk mounted valves as an example.... If my understanding is correct, the more "space" in the system that can be occupied by the air, the longer it will take to compress this air volume under compression??
Basically, what i'm getting from this is that you'll have a more controlled, and faster reacting suspension if the valve was mounted lets say, on the bag, or right by it, and if you had the valve mounted much farther away, you would have more overall volume to compress, and thus have a suspension that is slower to react?
With that said, if i am on the right path, this might mean a more sloppy feel of the suspension when the valves are mounted farther away?
I installed and did my own tuning and kit for my honda a few years back so
I understand all the dynamics of an air ride suspension for the show purposes, and what not, and understand various components and such in kits for this purpose, but when talking about air ride and performance/spring rates etc... i'm still struggling to understand...
when you consider the volume of air inside the bag, you must also count the air in the line from the bag to the valve. Essentially, the line is holding volume as well. it will take more air to fill the bags at say, oh, 25psi with the valves mounted on the other side of the car say, front bags to rear trunk mounted valves as an example.... If my understanding is correct, the more "space" in the system that can be occupied by the air, the longer it will take to compress this air volume under compression??
Basically, what i'm getting from this is that you'll have a more controlled, and faster reacting suspension if the valve was mounted lets say, on the bag, or right by it, and if you had the valve mounted much farther away, you would have more overall volume to compress, and thus have a suspension that is slower to react?
With that said, if i am on the right path, this might mean a more sloppy feel of the suspension when the valves are mounted farther away?
I installed and did my own tuning and kit for my honda a few years back so
I understand all the dynamics of an air ride suspension for the show purposes, and what not, and understand various components and such in kits for this purpose, but when talking about air ride and performance/spring rates etc... i'm still struggling to understand...
But in reguards to the spring rate the closer, or less volume between the valve and the bag will cause the air pressure between the valve and the bag in increase more then if the valves were further away.
For example. If you had the valve right ontop of the bag, when the bag is compressed down to half of its volume the pressure inside will double. However if you had equal volume between the valve and bag (air line) and the bag its self the pressure will only increase by 50%. Thus causing the closer you place the valves to the bags the higher the progression of the spring rate will be.
Basically what it comes down to, when you hit a bump and the wheel moved 1/2". If they were put the valves further away it will allow for the wheel to travel more, if you put them closer the wheel's will travel less. Now, typically most people dont even mess with valve placement, bag placement, they just put the bags in, hook it up and love it the way that it is. But, for the racing teams they like to tune it in for exactly what they like!
That is the "science" behind air suspension. Now... If you had an accord, you probly had air cylinders in there... An typically with an air cylinder your dont care about handling and ride quality... There is no dampers in the car and the cylinder doesnt react nearly the same as a bag will.