Bigger pedals for heel and toe ?!
05-27-2003, 04:11 PM
#1
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Bigger pedals for heel and toe ?!
After searching for quite a while.. I've found what MAY fit our car... I'm not even really sure. I just want a gas pedal cover, like many cars have, which extends out bottom left for easy heel and toe'ing..
What do you all think about these ?
If there are better ones that I haven't found, could someone PREASE list them? Pretty prease ? Thx.
-slay
What do you all think about these ?
If there are better ones that I haven't found, could someone PREASE list them? Pretty prease ? Thx.
-slay
07-07-2003, 06:14 PM
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Great find! I've been looking for something like this. For my foot, the stock brake/throttle pedals are too wide apart.
The bottom ones look similar to the stock pedals, but wider.
Have you tried any of these?
The bottom ones look similar to the stock pedals, but wider.
Have you tried any of these?
07-07-2003, 08:16 PM
#3
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I picked up the $25 Sparco set and only used the throttle pedal. The pedal will actually line up on two holes, but it was a little further down than I wanted the positioning. I used one screw only (with locking nut) and it has been ROCK SOLID for about a month. The Sparco pedal is curved just like the stock pedal and has a very aggressive grit on the backside which latches on to the smooth, stock pedal suface.
I have ZERO complaints with this set-up and finally learned to heel/toe at the track. I can even heel/toe in my dress shoes with this pedal.
I have ZERO complaints with this set-up and finally learned to heel/toe at the track. I can even heel/toe in my dress shoes with this pedal.
07-07-2003, 09:42 PM
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I have a full set of pedals from Razo... the black carbon fiber ones.
They work great... I'm not sure if I have the large or small size set though.
All the pedals are larger now which make heel-toe, etc. much easier and comfortable.
They work great... I'm not sure if I have the large or small size set though.
All the pedals are larger now which make heel-toe, etc. much easier and comfortable.
07-08-2003, 03:02 AM
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I put the OMP throttle pedal over the OEM pedal. I bought the kit from Pegasus Auto Racing Supply. The OMP pedal is close to two times the width of the OEM pedal.... very easy to blip the throttle when you are on the brakes.
PeteH
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07-08-2003, 03:09 AM
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by the way.... the OMP pedals I use are not the ones shown in the link above. The OMP in that website look like the BMW applications.
I think this link will get you to the Pegasus Racing catalog with the page containing the OMP pedals. You can't tell in the picture, but they are aluminum colored and match well with the OEM pedals.
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pdfs/101.pdf
I think this link will get you to the Pegasus Racing catalog with the page containing the OMP pedals. You can't tell in the picture, but they are aluminum colored and match well with the OEM pedals.
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pdfs/101.pdf
07-08-2003, 08:27 PM
#7
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My setup might bring them too close together for most guys. I had these pedals from my last car, so I used them. I was able to use 2 of the existing holes in the stock pedal, so it;s not going to move at all, and has been problem free since I got the car.. about 7000 miles now. These are the last pedals shown on the page listed above... throttle only.
Mark
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07-08-2003, 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by little_rod
OK, dumb question, I have read the term heel/toe a hundred times, but what the heck does it mean in terms of racing and such???
OK, dumb question, I have read the term heel/toe a hundred times, but what the heck does it mean in terms of racing and such???
1. clutch in
2. move to neutral
3. clutch out
4. brake... then blip the throttle to rev match
5. clutch in
6. move into gear
7. clutch out.
Some people do the truncated version where you don't do steps 3 or 5. they keep the clutch in the entire time.
It allows for a smooth transition into the gear to exit the turn. You always do this before you hit the apex of the turn though... and it requires pratice before you try it on the track since you need to gauge how much braking pressure + when to blip + when to go into gear to get it right. The idea though is relatively simple.
If you go to www.nasaproracing.com they suggest you practice heel/toe on the everyday streets before trying it on the track. Most beginners (like myself) should stick to just trying to
downshift and upshift smoothly on the track before attempting heel/toe.
Oh yeah, the "heel toe" thing is more of a misnomer. Most people find it easier to brake with the left side of the foot, then roll the foot over to blip the throttle. This is why people are trying to get new pedals to bring them closer.
07-09-2003, 12:19 AM
#10
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Yeah, simple in concept, difficult to master.
My feet naturally splay outward, so I pretty much have to use the roll method to brake with the ball of the foot and gas with the outside. I can't even twist my feet around to get my heel on the gas when the car is sitting still.
I probably could heel on the brake and toe on the gas if the brake pedal was much lower, although it's hard to modulate the brakes that way.
I've basically given up the heel-toe in the Z, and instead just try and brake a split second early so I can rev-match and shift just before the end of the turn. It works pretty well when I only need to change one gear, but it's useless when going from 4th to 2nd for instance.
I'll have to check these pedals out. Thanks for the link.
-D'oh!
My feet naturally splay outward, so I pretty much have to use the roll method to brake with the ball of the foot and gas with the outside. I can't even twist my feet around to get my heel on the gas when the car is sitting still.
I probably could heel on the brake and toe on the gas if the brake pedal was much lower, although it's hard to modulate the brakes that way.
I've basically given up the heel-toe in the Z, and instead just try and brake a split second early so I can rev-match and shift just before the end of the turn. It works pretty well when I only need to change one gear, but it's useless when going from 4th to 2nd for instance.
I'll have to check these pedals out. Thanks for the link.
-D'oh!
07-09-2003, 08:42 PM
#12
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So basically you are saying that through most of the turn, you are either in neutral or in on the clutch. I still don't see why you need to blip the throttle or really have your right foot on both the brake and the throttle.
As you go into a turn, I would hate to ride the clutch, but that is the easiest thing to do. I don't get into the throttle til after the apex anyway. Guess I don't give it this much thought, I just do it. Worry about brakes on my way into the turn, and worry about the throttle on my way out of the turn. Guess I am too scared to do any mixing.
Am I wrong in my approach, or is there a better way with heel/toe to be faster???
As you go into a turn, I would hate to ride the clutch, but that is the easiest thing to do. I don't get into the throttle til after the apex anyway. Guess I don't give it this much thought, I just do it. Worry about brakes on my way into the turn, and worry about the throttle on my way out of the turn. Guess I am too scared to do any mixing.
Am I wrong in my approach, or is there a better way with heel/toe to be faster???
07-09-2003, 11:41 PM
#14
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Originally posted by little_rod
So basically you are saying that through most of the turn, you are either in neutral or in on the clutch. I still don't see why you need to blip the throttle or really have your right foot on both the brake and the throttle.
As you go into a turn, I would hate to ride the clutch, but that is the easiest thing to do. I don't get into the throttle til after the apex anyway. Guess I don't give it this much thought, I just do it. Worry about brakes on my way into the turn, and worry about the throttle on my way out of the turn. Guess I am too scared to do any mixing.
Am I wrong in my approach, or is there a better way with heel/toe to be faster???
So basically you are saying that through most of the turn, you are either in neutral or in on the clutch. I still don't see why you need to blip the throttle or really have your right foot on both the brake and the throttle.
As you go into a turn, I would hate to ride the clutch, but that is the easiest thing to do. I don't get into the throttle til after the apex anyway. Guess I don't give it this much thought, I just do it. Worry about brakes on my way into the turn, and worry about the throttle on my way out of the turn. Guess I am too scared to do any mixing.
Am I wrong in my approach, or is there a better way with heel/toe to be faster???
So, the goal of heel-toe shifting is to run down through the gears as you slam on the brakes while matching revs on each downshift. This way you won't cause any additional engine braking to the rear wheels as you let out the clutch. Basically, you just need to somehow blip the gas to match revs at the same time you have the clutch and brake pressed. The heel-toe part is to allow your two feet to perform the task of three.
The way to work around the heel-toe method is to do basically what you said: rev match after you brake, or let the clutch out slowly, or to ride the clutch until you get on the gas exiting a turn and then let it out. The problem with all these methods is that you are performing the shifting in series with the braking, instead of in parallel, which means you have the potential to loose a little bit of time.
Mainly though, heel-toe is just fun if you pull it off correctly. Gives a sense of accomplishment.
-D'oh!
07-10-2003, 01:08 AM
#15
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Originally posted by D'oh
Generally, it is best to be finished braking before you start turning (or at least you should be letting off the brakes as you start turning). Also, you want to be in the proper gear entering the turn, not shifting during the middle of the turn. Finally, you don't want the engine drag causing the rear wheels to slow suddenly as you let the clutch out.
So, the goal of heel-toe shifting is to run down through the gears as you slam on the brakes while matching revs on each downshift. This way you won't cause any additional engine braking to the rear wheels as you let out the clutch. Basically, you just need to somehow blip the gas to match revs at the same time you have the clutch and brake pressed. The heel-toe part is to allow your two feet to perform the task of three.
The way to work around the heel-toe method is to do basically what you said: rev match after you brake, or let the clutch out slowly, or to ride the clutch until you get on the gas exiting a turn and then let it out. The problem with all these methods is that you are performing the shifting in series with the braking, instead of in parallel, which means you have the potential to loose a little bit of time.
Mainly though, heel-toe is just fun if you pull it off correctly. Gives a sense of accomplishment.
-D'oh!
Generally, it is best to be finished braking before you start turning (or at least you should be letting off the brakes as you start turning). Also, you want to be in the proper gear entering the turn, not shifting during the middle of the turn. Finally, you don't want the engine drag causing the rear wheels to slow suddenly as you let the clutch out.
So, the goal of heel-toe shifting is to run down through the gears as you slam on the brakes while matching revs on each downshift. This way you won't cause any additional engine braking to the rear wheels as you let out the clutch. Basically, you just need to somehow blip the gas to match revs at the same time you have the clutch and brake pressed. The heel-toe part is to allow your two feet to perform the task of three.
The way to work around the heel-toe method is to do basically what you said: rev match after you brake, or let the clutch out slowly, or to ride the clutch until you get on the gas exiting a turn and then let it out. The problem with all these methods is that you are performing the shifting in series with the braking, instead of in parallel, which means you have the potential to loose a little bit of time.
Mainly though, heel-toe is just fun if you pull it off correctly. Gives a sense of accomplishment.
-D'oh!
What I usually do is to go into a turn maybe in 4th, hit the brakes and put it in neutral (or ride the clutch, yuck). Hang the turn til apex, then go straight to 1st, match revs, and I am gone. But you are right, I would be shifting midturn, which is not best. Guess it would be hard to pick the gear while braking, let it be the right one and hang the turn in that gear.
Hmmm, all these years, and I find out I can't drive. Man, I suck, lol.
07-10-2003, 06:40 AM
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Try this:
- 4th gear, 100kph, note the RPM's.
- Shift into N let RPM's drop to idle
- Shift back into 4th
Note how the car lugs and you find yourself up against the steering wheel.
Now try this:
- 4th gear, 100kph, note the RPM's.
- Shift into N let RPM's drop to idle
- While holding the clutch in, shift into 4th
- With clutch still in, bring RPM's up
- Let out clutch
Now, it's that much better?
Perfecting heal-toe allows you do this in one fluid motion any time you need to slow down, AND drop a gear.
You can't slow down "a little" while heal-toe-ing, you're usually going to be pretty hard on the break while doing it... you know, come in fast, break hard.
- 4th gear, 100kph, note the RPM's.
- Shift into N let RPM's drop to idle
- Shift back into 4th
Note how the car lugs and you find yourself up against the steering wheel.
Now try this:
- 4th gear, 100kph, note the RPM's.
- Shift into N let RPM's drop to idle
- While holding the clutch in, shift into 4th
- With clutch still in, bring RPM's up
- Let out clutch
Now, it's that much better?
Perfecting heal-toe allows you do this in one fluid motion any time you need to slow down, AND drop a gear.
You can't slow down "a little" while heal-toe-ing, you're usually going to be pretty hard on the break while doing it... you know, come in fast, break hard.
07-10-2003, 06:43 AM
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... before someone corrects me...
Technically this should be:
Now try this:
- 4th gear, 100kph, note the RPM's.
- Shift into N let RPM's drop to idle
*- With clutch still in, bring RPM's up
*- While holding the clutch in, shift into 4th
- Let out clutch
... but for this demonstration either will work.
Technically this should be:
Now try this:
- 4th gear, 100kph, note the RPM's.
- Shift into N let RPM's drop to idle
*- With clutch still in, bring RPM's up
*- While holding the clutch in, shift into 4th
- Let out clutch
... but for this demonstration either will work.
07-10-2003, 08:53 AM
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Originally posted by little_rod
OK, it sounds like you are talking about downshifting through the gears, for instance when you are in 4th, going through 3rd, 2nd, then 1st.
I think if you rev-match, you don't need to worry about downshifting through the gears. If you're in 4th and need to be in 2nd to exit, chances are that you'll already be within the proper RPM range. You just need to rev-match so the transition is cleaner.
What I usually do is to go into a turn maybe in 4th, hit the brakes and put it in neutral (or ride the clutch, yuck). Hang the turn til apex, then go straight to 1st, match revs, and I am gone. But you are right, I would be shifting midturn, which is not best. Guess it would be hard to pick the gear while braking, let it be the right one and hang the turn in that gear.
From what I understand you should be in your exiting gear before entering the apex of a turn. All of your braking should also be done before the apex of the turn.
So generically its' brake, last minute -smooth- downshift, apex, throttle and exit.
If you're doing heel toe you combine braking with rev matching before you downshift.
OK, it sounds like you are talking about downshifting through the gears, for instance when you are in 4th, going through 3rd, 2nd, then 1st.
I think if you rev-match, you don't need to worry about downshifting through the gears. If you're in 4th and need to be in 2nd to exit, chances are that you'll already be within the proper RPM range. You just need to rev-match so the transition is cleaner.
What I usually do is to go into a turn maybe in 4th, hit the brakes and put it in neutral (or ride the clutch, yuck). Hang the turn til apex, then go straight to 1st, match revs, and I am gone. But you are right, I would be shifting midturn, which is not best. Guess it would be hard to pick the gear while braking, let it be the right one and hang the turn in that gear.
From what I understand you should be in your exiting gear before entering the apex of a turn. All of your braking should also be done before the apex of the turn.
So generically its' brake, last minute -smooth- downshift, apex, throttle and exit.
If you're doing heel toe you combine braking with rev matching before you downshift.
07-10-2003, 10:34 AM
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Wow, maybe it is just me, but I feel that the stock pedals are almost perfectly placed for the "rocking" heel-toe method. Maybe I have really wide feet (size 11), I really dont' think that is the case though.
07-10-2003, 10:35 PM
#20
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Originally posted by D_Nyholm
Wow, maybe it is just me, but I feel that the stock pedals are almost perfectly placed for the "rocking" heel-toe method. Maybe I have really wide feet (size 11), I really dont' think that is the case though.
Wow, maybe it is just me, but I feel that the stock pedals are almost perfectly placed for the "rocking" heel-toe method. Maybe I have really wide feet (size 11), I really dont' think that is the case though.
I have size 9 feet (pretty small) and even in my hiking boots I can just barely hit the brake and gas at the same time. Definitely not consistently enough for hard driving.
Ah well, at least I save some weight with my smaller shoes!
-D'oh!