Toe When Lowering Your Car
05-11-2008, 02:41 AM
#2
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i think... your toe doesn't change when you lower (if you don't adjust your camber), toe only changes when you change your camber. and when you lower, you camber in and to correct that you have to make you toe more in, i believe.
05-11-2008, 11:17 AM
#4
Originally Posted by aleok
i think... your toe doesn't change when you lower (if you don't adjust your camber), toe only changes when you change your camber. and when you lower, you camber in and to correct that you have to make you toe more in, i believe.
JET
05-11-2008, 09:50 PM
#6
I would have posted this earlier, but I can't cut and paste at work.
Originally Posted by hippie
uwaeve....Here are the numbers I got when I measured my '03 Track
front toe---Camber....................rear toe---camber
Droop -3 - 1/32 in -- +3/4
........ -2 - 0 -- +1/8 ...........................1/16 in -- -3/4
.........-1 - 0 -- -1/2 .............................3/32 in -- -1 1/4
.......... 0 -1/32 out-- -1 3/8 .................1/8 in -- -2
.........+1 -1/16 out -- -1 3/4 ...................5/32 in -- -2 3/4
.........+2- 3/32 out -- -2 3/4....................3/16 in -- -3 3/4
bump +3 -1/8 out -- -4 ............+2 3/4"......3/16 in -- -4 3/4
I measured all of these numbers the old fasioned way. In the garage with 1" blocks, a camber gauge, and a couple strings. They may not be perfect.
The rear gains camber only a bit quicker that the front in bump, but the one thing these numbers don't take into account is camber loss because of body roll. The front inner pickup points are VERY far apart which contributes to these losses. As a test I dropped the RF 1" and raised the LR 1" (LF and RR were unchanged) and the RF lost 5/8 deg of camber. The LR only changed 1/4deg.
hope this makes sense and helps
front toe---Camber....................rear toe---camber
Droop -3 - 1/32 in -- +3/4
........ -2 - 0 -- +1/8 ...........................1/16 in -- -3/4
.........-1 - 0 -- -1/2 .............................3/32 in -- -1 1/4
.......... 0 -1/32 out-- -1 3/8 .................1/8 in -- -2
.........+1 -1/16 out -- -1 3/4 ...................5/32 in -- -2 3/4
.........+2- 3/32 out -- -2 3/4....................3/16 in -- -3 3/4
bump +3 -1/8 out -- -4 ............+2 3/4"......3/16 in -- -4 3/4
I measured all of these numbers the old fasioned way. In the garage with 1" blocks, a camber gauge, and a couple strings. They may not be perfect.
The rear gains camber only a bit quicker that the front in bump, but the one thing these numbers don't take into account is camber loss because of body roll. The front inner pickup points are VERY far apart which contributes to these losses. As a test I dropped the RF 1" and raised the LR 1" (LF and RR were unchanged) and the RF lost 5/8 deg of camber. The LR only changed 1/4deg.
hope this makes sense and helps
Originally Posted by hippie
In response to some posting above here are some numbers that I measured with my Z.
The front end gains 1deg of camber per in. of bump....... .8 lower equals .8 deg more neg camber.......LS-1.8 RS-2 based on average static numbers
More camber will produce toe in, BUT lowering the car will produce toe out....about 1/32 out per side per in. of drop.....up to 1/16 out per in. per side with more travel. The rear gains toe in with bump....starts at 1/16 per in. and goes to 3/32.
The front end gains 1deg of camber per in. of bump....... .8 lower equals .8 deg more neg camber.......LS-1.8 RS-2 based on average static numbers
More camber will produce toe in, BUT lowering the car will produce toe out....about 1/32 out per side per in. of drop.....up to 1/16 out per in. per side with more travel. The rear gains toe in with bump....starts at 1/16 per in. and goes to 3/32.
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05-12-2008, 06:25 AM
#8
My experience here is with late Porsche rear suspensions which have a dynamic toe link like the Z does ("A" in picture below).
The dynamic toe link's control arc controls toe as the suspension goes up and down and the rate of change is sensitive to ride height. Porsche has an adjustment eccentric to adjust this, the Z does not.
This is where the Cusco adjustable toe link comes in shown by "A" in the picture below. Link "B" would adjust static camber (or use the factory adjustment here), and static toe would be adjusted at the factory point indicated (the range can be increased with a longer throw eccentric like the one from SPC for both the factory adjustments).
To adjust it correctly one would have to remove the rear spring and experiment like Gsedan did since Nissan has no specs.
The dynamic toe link's control arc controls toe as the suspension goes up and down and the rate of change is sensitive to ride height. Porsche has an adjustment eccentric to adjust this, the Z does not.
This is where the Cusco adjustable toe link comes in shown by "A" in the picture below. Link "B" would adjust static camber (or use the factory adjustment here), and static toe would be adjusted at the factory point indicated (the range can be increased with a longer throw eccentric like the one from SPC for both the factory adjustments).
To adjust it correctly one would have to remove the rear spring and experiment like Gsedan did since Nissan has no specs.
Last edited by cupcar; 05-12-2008 at 06:30 AM.
05-12-2008, 09:58 AM
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front gets more toe out in bump
rear gets more toe in in bump
think of it this way. the suspension is designed to reduce oversteer under compression. toe out in the rear under compression will make a car more likely to spin.
rear gets more toe in in bump
think of it this way. the suspension is designed to reduce oversteer under compression. toe out in the rear under compression will make a car more likely to spin.
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