uro279

Hey guys,
Do you lose something by using Stoptech brakelines lines that don't have the same amount of cables as stock, whereas Goodridge, Nismo, and I believe Technafit do?

Thanx

mcclaskz

NO. Not at all. You gain a lot in the pedal feel though. Replace your fluid with something high test as well. I recommend Motul 600 even though it is French...

uro279

Then why do the other guys utilize the same number of cables?

What exactly did stoptech do to not need as many cables.

Thanx.

2003z

iTrader: (7)

yes, you lose about 3lbs per corner. I've held the stock, stoptech and my technafit side by side, and the only real difference is the stoptech, by not having the brass junction blocks are much lighter.

uro279

Are the Brass blocks neccessary? You've got technafit. Why did you choose it over Stoptech?

Thanks.

2003z

iTrader: (7)

I dont think they are necessary. I chose them over stoptech due to price. splparts.com has a package deal for track models, @ $300 for lines, fluids and hawk hps pads.

J Ritt

iTrader: (4)

Get the StopTechs. I just installed mine the other week. They give much better feel. I have no idea why in the world the factory system is such a convoluted mess of lines. The StopTechs are worth the price, and installing them is a piece of cake.

DZeckhausen

If you were to perform a failure analysis of a set of brake lines, you would be most concerned about the crimp junctions at the end of each line. With a total of six such junctions, the stock Nissan 350Z lines are the most complicated mess I've ever seen on all my years working on cars!


Stock 350Z Touring Model front brake line and caliper

The StopTech line uses a single piece of extruded Teflon covered in stainless steel braid, which is in turn covered in clear plastic. The lines comply with DOT specifications (remember, there's no such thing as DOT "certification") and they have passed the rigerous testing for TUV in Germany. Midway along the line is a metal fitting which attaches to the outboard stock mounting stud that used to hold one of the metal blocks on the stock lines. This fitting is hollow and the line passes through it, so it does not involve more crimp fittings and thus does not reduce the reliability of the system. The StopTech line is routed properly so it doesn't take any sharp bends and it doesn't contact any suspension components or the back of your wheel.

Because the line is covered in clear plastic, there's no way for dirt to work its way into the steel weave and begin to attack the delicate Teflon line inside. With other lines, you probably want to replace them every few years. These are lifetime lines.

When performing a failure analysis, one examines historical data for the numbers of failures in ten thousand hours of operation. That process yields a number called the FIT rate. Your total system reliability is calculated by summing the various FIT rates of each subsystem. Everything has a FIT rate associated with it, although some components have tiny FIT rates and others have larger FIT rates. On a stainless line, there would be a FIT rate associated with each linear foot of line. Cover the line with plastic and the FIT rate drops. The fittings have the highest FIT rate of any other part of the line. With six crimp fittings on the system, the overall reliability would generally be three times lower than a system with just two.

StopTech uses a very expensive hydrualic ram to make the crimp fittings, so they are as reliable as they could be. Nothing from any other vendor is going to be MORE reliable, and it would probably be less. Thus, if you assume the other manufacturers have done the best possible job on the crimp fittings, their lines would still be three times less reliable, assuming they had six fittings instead of two.

If you look at the distribution of failures over time, you'll probably find that many brake lines have a high infant mortality ratre and then the failures become more evenly distributed over time. That's because it's possible, with any manufacturer, to screw up a crimp fitting. A human operator is involved in the process and we all know what humans are capable of doing, especially on Monday mornings! That's why StopTech does high pressure testing to 4,500 psi on EVERY line they make, not just samples from the assembly line. Each line is tested before it leaves Torrance, California. That takes care of the infant mortality problem. If a fitting is messed up, it's going to fail on the test bench at 4,500 psi, rather than on your car at 1,200 psi.

BlackZ33

Hi, DZeckhausen

Can I use the stoptech lines though out the winter or it is better swap them to the factory one ?

Thanks

Scott

DZeckhausen

They can be used year round. Install these and throw away the rubber lines. The StopTech lines will last the life of your car. No issue with cold weather.

fairladyZ in Japan

DZeckhausen..... excellent explanation....thanks !


Does anybody have the NISMO lines and can comment on them ?

BlackZ33

Thanks DZeckhausen
I better get it before the next track day

Scott

daytona350z

iTrader: (19)

here is my thread on the techna fit lines:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....ht=daytona350z

J Ritt

iTrader: (4)

DZeck is right on the money. If you think about it, there are just so many links in the OEM chain for problems to arise. Those two extra fittings are just 2 more chances for failure.
I would also guess that you have a lot of latent fluid sitting in those lines heating up when you are on the track. If you have 2 feet of rubber lines, all of that heat radiating out of the front wheels is going into the lines and heating the fluid. Then you get on the brakes and press it all into the calipers. I think the, 'shortest distance between two points is a straight line' theory is best for this application.

DZeckhausen

Actually, it's four extra fittings!

The StopTech lines have two fittings, one at each end. The stock lines have three segments that terminate on the two connecting blocks, with a total of six crimp fittings.

Radiation of heat into the lines does not produce the same sort of temperature rise that you'll see from conduction through the pads and the caliper into the brake fluid. And the StopTech line is probably only a few inches shorter, in overall length, than the factory set-up. So I would not consider the length to have a major impact on brake fluid temperature in this application.

At the track, the thickness of the brake pads has a big impact on heat transfer into the brake fluid. The friction material is a good insulator. When your pads wear down to 25 percent thickness, there is MUCH more heat passed through to the fluid than when they are new. Thus, if you have a problem with boiling brake fluid and you haven't been able to cure it by going to Motul 600 or Castrol SRF, you might consider replacing your track pads after they are more than 50 percent worn.

The addition of titanium backing plates is also an option.