jmicaelk

iTrader: (19)

Hi guys, I know this has been asked before, and I have read some old threads about it, but just want to see if you all still think the same, that unless I'm trying to "slam" the car or build a full racing car then true coilovers are not needed and would take great changes to the body to support the extra load.
Please let me know what you guys think

davidv

iTrader: (2)

Not sure what you mean true coilover as opposed to what? Fake coilover?


The front of the Z is a coil OVER a damper. It is a true coilover


The rear has a spring in one position, and a damper in another. You may substitute a true coilover for both.

BoomerZ33

iTrader: (23)

i don't believe there is a real definition to true coilovers. Simply put a coilover setup is any suspension where the spring is placed over the shocks. Coilover kits fully replace the oem shocks and springs and provides height adjustment and adjustable dampening and rebound settings.

And if you plan on slamming your car i would not go with the nismo s-tune suspension kit^. your best choice is stance coilovers.

brandon3434

iTrader: (9)

I'm assuming he means "true style coilovers" vs "oem style coilovers". In that case, if you want to go low, get true style coilovers, because you will be able to control your toe better with a toe arm, which will replace the stock spring bucket. If you plan on slamming your car with oem style coilovers, you will need to get an aftermarket spring bucket that can adjust toe better than simply a toe bolt.

*My personal opinion is that true coilovers make the car seem more predictable and should have been built like that stock. Most true style coilovers have linear springs as well, while oem style are usually progressive due to the separate rear adjustable spring and shock. Having a true coilover in the rear would give the rear a better feel. Linear springs are better than progressive springs in my opinion because they make the suspension more predictable.

Hope this helps, correct me if I'm wrong.

User 42426

iTrader: (29)

like you said, there are numerous threads about true/oem style coils. Each have their own pros and cons. Usually, true coils allow a bigger drop. Its really how much you want to drop and how much your willing to spend. Dont get caught up on oem/true coils.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

there are already several threads that go in detail about this, but no, nothing about the chassis or geometry has changed, so the plusses and minusses are still the same

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

getting 'caught up' with OEM type vs true is exactly what you should be concerned with actually. They are dramatically different in every possible way

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

there mere prescence of a linear vs progressive spring does not make a car more or less predicatable in any way. It's not zero sum

there are plenty of coilovers that have OEM rear geometry, as well as linear springs - in fact, I'd venture to say there are equal amounts setup linear vs progressive

OP - first thing you need to do are define your goals (in as great a details as possible)

brandon3434

iTrader: (9)

^^^This is what I thought about progressive/linear.

The idea behind progressive springs is that they are somewhat soft under normal load and get progressively firmer as they compress. The advantage of this (if the spring actually works well) is that you have a softer ride when driving normally, but as you start to push the car through corners the springs compresses and the ride firms up.

Linear rate springs compress in a uniform manner and should be more predictable.

*But, this is based only on the few coilovers I have owned/used. I really liked the linear feel way better, in my opinion, the car felt way more predictable. (Just an opinion, Adam knows way more than I do about this stuff...)

jmicaelk

iTrader: (19)

Thanks for all the comments, and yes I meant True vs OEM style. I guess what I need is to get all the other threads "dumb" down a bit It was way beyond what I know about suspension at the moment.
So if I put it this way, by going with the true style there will be less weight on the rear suspension, about 2 pounds. I have both SPL midlinks as well as there spring bucket delete "toe links" as SPL calls them. So what will be the cons on that weight gain, would I need to add extra support in the body or ??
I have an empty shell of a 350z outside so I can do what is needed to it right now. I'm not going to slam it, but I could think about some light tracking/racing with it and will weld the chassis to add strength to it and maybe add a roll-cage. Still debating all that though.

So what you all think.

Thanks

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

one thing to take into consideration is the spread of 'soft' to 'hard' - some coilovers have a much larger spread than others

overall feel is very, very subjective, and related to alot more than just the rear spring rate

betamotorsports

iTrader: (1)

There's this mythical belief on a lot of these fan boy sites that "coilovers" are some kind of magical handling improvement device. They ain't. In 90% of the race cars where I've had to fix the handling, someone has bought a set of "coilovers" off the Internet and bolted them on the car. Just throwing away the JDM POS "coilovers" and putting the car back on stock springs with a good set of shocks has given the racer better lap times.

Remember, all the tire sees is wheel rate. It doesn't give a crap if that rate comes from "coilovers" or a big rubber ducky.

brandon3434

iTrader: (9)

Huh? lol

singh

iTrader: (2)

i agree with him i'm willing to bet if you took a stock-suspension Z and one with jdm coilovers the stock one would run lap times just as quick if not quicker.. the difference in the two drivers would overshadow any advantage a suspension may have..

i mean its so marginal that only a guy that has had substantial seat time would be able to shed any light on which one is actually "better".. and very few if any of you on this forum fall under this category

brandon3434

iTrader: (9)

Totally 100% hands down disagree lol...The stock suspension on the z sucks.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

Actually, no it doesn't - it's far more capable than most drivers are in fact

For drivers who are more skilled than the stock suspension allows for, then there are very good options out there. Not all options are worth having, not all options are worth spending money on, it all depends on what the end goals are. Slamming a car on the ground does not ensure good handling, and often leads to worse handling when the car is truly pushed to the limit, even if its done with coilovers.

huyrua

iTrader: (30)

betamotorsports

iTrader: (1)

It all depends on what you're using as a measure. I use lap times.

One a race track the stock 350Z ('06 and later) suspension is pretty damn good once you run a square tire and wheel setup. Even on stock shocks and springs I was running within a second of the NASA TTC lap record at Fontana during a Speedventures event. Adding Koni Sports, Nissan Motorsports ARBs, custom upper LCA bushings, an OS Giken LSD, and 285/30-18 Hankook 214s and the car (driven by a pro driver) beat the TTC lap record of 1.56.xxx by a half second. No coil overs needed, just stock springs.

Gsedan35

iTrader: (10)

The oem 350Z suspension has 3 different flavors

unrevised 2003-2004

revised 2004.5+

Nismo Z

All 3 are going to be different, especially the Nismo version.


That being said, here are some quotes from Road and Tracks 4 way comparo done on the 2.5-mile "Big Track" Willow Springs International Raceway in March 2003.

Cars tested
2003 BMW M3 SMG
2003 Corvette Z06
2003 Porsche 911
2003 Nissan 350Z

Dynamically, it's tough to fault the Nissan's unflappable handling. It's more confidence-inspiring than the M3 (which is saying a lot) with less at-limit understeer and none of the M3's off-throttle oversteer.

Dynamically, there are few cars so immediately comfortable to drive quickly. Thoughtful chassis and suspension tuning have made it relatively easy (and hugely satisfying) to hustle the Z around offramps and racetracks alike. Excellent overall balance allows it to seamlessly process braking, steering and throttle inputs without unduly upsetting the chassis. Fore-to-aft weight transfer has a minimal effect on the car's composure, allowing the driver to transition from braking to power more quickly when cornering.

Even at the high speeds we encountered driving on Willow Springs Raceway, getting the 350Z to rotate its tail takes a concerted effort. Its natural tendency is toward a slight turn-in/mid-turn push that gives way to a balanced corner exit drift. The result is a car whose considerable limits are fun to explore without venturing too far into the unknown. Senior Editor Andy Bornhop said it best following his first hot laps in the Nissan, "The 350Z inspires confidence because it doesn't feel like it will ever bite you." This confidence is most evident in the lap times, where the 350Z turned a fast lap just marginally faster than both the M3 and 911. Being able to push the Z comfortably right up to the limit contributed substantially to its surprising pace around the track.


Look closely at the lap fastest lap times between the cars, also notice that the stat's overall do not favor the actual outcome.

Nissan 350Z Track
0-60 mph 5.8 sec
0-1/4 mile 14.4 sec.
Lap time 01:40.06
Skidpad 0.88g
Slalom 67.3 mph
Braking, 80-0 mph 213 ft.

BMW M3 SMG
0-60 mph 4.9 sec
0-1/4 mile 13.5 sec.
Lap time 01:40.09
Skidpad 0.89g
Slalom 68.8 mph
Braking, 80-0 mph 213 ft.

Chevrolet
Corvette Z06
0-60 mph 4.5 sec.
0-1/4 mile 12.8 sec
Lap time 01:36.50
Skidpad 0.98g
Slalom 67.6 mph
Braking, 80-0 mph 204 ft.

Porsche 911
0-60 mph 5.0 sec
0-1/4 mile 13.5 sec.
Lap time 01:40.79
Skidpad 0.92g
Slalom 65.5 mph
Braking, 80-0 mph 208 ft.


However, the 2005 revised suspension comes along and in another handling comparo, the Z places 7 out of 8. And the editor comments about handling simply are not their. The track is Buttonwillow vs the previous Willowsprings

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...versary_page_3

Gsedan35

iTrader: (10)

True or not, this is the thread you need to read

https://my350z.com/forum/brakes-and-...er-or-not.html

I fully support what Wil, aka member Resolute and Kuah at SPL say. Remove profit motives and ego's out of the mix. NO one in the states is going to do the geometric modification's to make a true rear sensicle no matter how much spin to apply about rear toe.