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Knocking Sound? Any Help?

Old 01-21-2011, 06:25 PM
  #1  
JDM555
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Default Knocking Sound? Any Help?

Hey. I recently installed a couple of parts on my 07 Z.

- Stance GR+ True Coils
- SPC Rear Camber Arms
- JasonZ-Ya Toe Arms
- JasonZ-Ya Lockout Bolt Kit
- Tanabe F/R Sway Bars

I took it out for a small spin around my neighborhood right after install and didn't get above 20mph, but the knocking sound I got today was just ridiculous.

I decided to drive a short distance to get gas and help the car settle a little before I get an alignment.

The thing now, is I'm getting a ridiculously loud knocking sound when I either

- Make a turn
- Go over 35mph on a very slight turn
- Brake Suddenly
- Accelerate Suddenly

It's very hard to describe this knocking, but I'll try my best.

When I turn and get this knocking, it's a constant knocking until I straighten the car out again or slow down. This is a pretty loud knocking that can be heard loud and clear with the windows up, and still be heard slightly with windows down.

Not only is there that knocking, but while turning, going 35 mph, and getting that knocking, the rear end of the car feels way off. It's like the rear end is loose. The sway bar being loose is the best way I can describe it. When I give it a quick punch in gas, I hear something "snap" or get pushed back. Same as braking suddenly, I heard a "knock" as if there is something loose and sliding around.

But when I get the knocking, speeding, and turning, the best way I can describe it, is it feels as if the lockout washers in the rear, rotate a bit which is not easy since it's...a lockout washer, then as soon as I get the next knocking sound, it's like the washer snaps back in perfectly to the grooves for the rear camber/toe arm bolts. Basically the area where you would "shave" down to install the SPC Toe Bolts.

That's what the rear feels like when speeding and turning. If it doesn't make sense, let me know and I can try to describe it another way?

I did search and got bushings and what not, or loose gas head, or even loose sway bar. But I checked everything, the sway bar is on SOLID, the toe arms and camber arms are TIGHT and torqued down SOLID.

Do you guys think it might have anything to do with coilovers? Can the lockout washers actually be moving torqued down? Could the sway bar be hitting or rubbing on something? It's not in anythings way. Can the toe and camber being SO OUT OF SPEC cause this? Bald rear tires? I'm not slammed either.
John


Sorry for the incredibly long post.

Cliffs
- Installed suspension items.
- Test drove car today.
- Got weird knocking in rear.
- Knocking isn't just sound, but as if something is loose in the rear.
- Something "slides" under sudden acceleration or sudden braking.
- Read above for more specific info.


Here are some pictures if it helps?

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Last edited by JDM555; 01-21-2011 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 01-21-2011, 08:13 PM
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hard to say, with all the suspension mods you did at once its ard to pinpoint. BUT if your front in LOW LOW the its the A arm smacking the underside of the fender well. If your not slammed I'd go through and make sure ALL your nuts and bolts are tightened. Best of luck to ya!
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Old 01-21-2011, 09:02 PM
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vtchang
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Something "slides" under sudden acceleration or sudden braking.
That is because your toe is most likely off.

Got weird knocking in rear.
Knocking or clunking? Clunking is a known issue and there are many threads on it. I've learn to live with the noise.
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Old 01-21-2011, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by vtchang View Post
That is because your toe is most likely off.



Knocking or clunking? Clunking is a known issue and there are many threads on it. I've learn to live with the noise.
Not clunking. It's knocking type of sound. It's not a good sound. Horrible sound actually. And the rear wheels feel like they hop slightly ever time it makes that noise. It's like my tires around circular. It feels really bad so sometimes I had to pull over and put on my emergency lights.

The other thing is the sliding isn't like my tires skidding or sliding rubber wise. Its like metal clunking is when it happens.

Best way to describe the feeling is say the toe arms and camber arms are tightened parallel with the car and there is play. So they slide forward and back. But since they aren't parallel and everything is tight, I'm scratching my head.

Any other ideas? Should I try adding stock rear sway? Then add stock camber arms? Then spring bucket?

I don't have the time or money to uninstall and reinstall. This is my DD and I need an alignment and I got new tires. So I wasn't expecting this sound.

Again this isn't just light knocking sound. This is LOUD and you can FEEL the cars rear wheels hopping or bouncing in a sense, with that bouncing and knocking sound being as loud as it is, the only thing I can do is cringe.

It is NOT a good feeling at all. The car feels really unstable and loose in the rear. It has that knocking while turning, AND it acts as if it's sliding in a parallel fashion along the car looking at it front to back.

Like the car is lined up in a vertical line such as " l ". And the movement in the rear when braking or accelerating SUDDENLY is also parallel to the car " l ". It's like a snap, I hear a metal clunk as if it's sliding in wiggle room and it hits something else and stops. Hard to explain, I will try to get a video. But I don't like the feeling of driving the car like that. Darn! Any more ideas?

Crazy idea. I can try to mount some sort of small cap UNDER the bumper and drive around and try to see if I can see something moving or hitting against something else.

Again, anything related to coilovers? Spring perch not tight enough? Top bolts not tight enough?

Last edited by JDM555; 01-21-2011 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 01-21-2011, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by TehkMob View Post
hard to say, with all the suspension mods you did at once its ard to pinpoint. BUT if your front in LOW LOW the its the A arm smacking the underside of the fender well. If your not slammed I'd go through and make sure ALL your nuts and bolts are tightened. Best of luck to ya!
No. The sound is definitely not coming from the front. And I'm not slammed whatsoever. I'm not even tucking my 45 series 18" tires. The sound is for sure coming from the rear, and I can feel it in the rear. Extremely unstable and wobbly in a sense. Every knocking sound, I feel the wheel getting some sort of shock or something that makes it act like a little bump in the road. Idk, it's so hard to explain.

I'll try to call local shops and have someone drive along and try to pinpoint the problem.


BTW, some of my bushings can be ripped, how can I get under the car and try to find torn bushings? Which ones are simple to find and tell if they are torn that might affect this ride quality.

Sorry for the extremely long posts, I'm getting a little worried and want to pinpoint the problem in a few days.
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Old 01-22-2011, 01:52 AM
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If your alignment is that far out of whack, Its very possible for stuff to be in the wrong place, and make your car feel terrible to drive. I'd say get an alignment, then see if it does it anymore.
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:15 AM
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New coil over install, probably a loose pillowball. Could also be not properly set up .
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:47 AM
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Go get an alignment!

Cant comment on install of coilovers, etc...if you didn't install something right then there is no telling, but all the driving characteristics along with rear end slop, etc is all from changing out all the suspension arms and coilover install causing the alignment to be out of whack big time!

After installing that stuff you drive under 30mph, crawling to the nearest alignment shop!

get on the good graces of the mechanic there, take a flash light and point and show him every single bolt you removed and what you installed.........a trained eye may be able to see something messed up "IF" it is..

-J
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by skakemokid View Post
If your alignment is that far out of whack, Its very possible for stuff to be in the wrong place, and make your car feel terrible to drive. I'd say get an alignment, then see if it does it anymore.
Yeah. It might be. I'm sure the camber/toe arms are not in line. I set them to the original length of the spring bucket, but it was super hard to bolt them down, so I adjusted each a bit to install them.

I'll do alignment and reply back.,

Originally Posted by terrasmak View Post
New coil over install, probably a loose pillowball. Could also be not properly set up .
Coils were used with 4,000 miles. Loose pillowball, you mean that the top nut on the coils are loose? They are super tight, no wiggle room whatsoever and my spring perches are all set properly according to Stance.

Originally Posted by JasonZ-YA View Post
Go get an alignment!

Cant comment on install of coilovers, etc...if you didn't install something right then there is no telling, but all the driving characteristics along with rear end slop, etc is all from changing out all the suspension arms and coilover install causing the alignment to be out of whack big time!

After installing that stuff you drive under 30mph, crawling to the nearest alignment shop!

get on the good graces of the mechanic there, take a flash light and point and show him every single bolt you removed and what you installed.........a trained eye may be able to see something messed up "IF" it is..

-J
Ok. I won't drive the car anymore. I will go get an alignment, first thing Monday Morning and then hopefully it will go away. I will also tell them about this noise and if they can help me pinpoint the problem.

I will keep the thread updated within the next few days.
John
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:03 AM
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The best thing you could do is double check eveything youve installed, it could just be a simple mistake like a missed bolt that wasnt tightened all the way. if that doesnt work then take it to a mechanic. with all the mods you did it will be easy to miss something. g/l.
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Old 01-22-2011, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by scrantonz33 View Post
The best thing you could do is double check eveything youve installed, it could just be a simple mistake like a missed bolt that wasnt tightened all the way. if that doesnt work then take it to a mechanic. with all the mods you did it will be easy to miss something. g/l.
Thanks for the tip.

Like I said, I went back under, but I didn't jack up the car and get my hands dirty. I have lower back problems and actually wasn't suppose to even get down to check it, and I'm paying the price in pain.

But when I was down there, both camber arms and both toe arms were still down TIGHT. The lockout washers didn't move and they are seated properly. Both of the adjustable arms aren't loose, the nuts are tight. There is no play in any of those 4 items. The sway bar is on tight. The endlinks and 4 mounting bolts/nuts are tight. I tried to push and pull on the sway bar and there was no noise/clunking/visibility of anything loose.

So, not sure? It might be alignment, my toe and camber are pretty off. And not even. The right toe is nothing like the left toe, I just went off my naked eye.

I'll do tire mount on Monday morning, followed by a 4 wheel alignment right after.
John
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:49 PM
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tyau
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You have a very sweet suspension setup.

Anyway, it sounds like you are experiencing the phantom pillowball mount clunk that plagues many Stance owners. The infamous clunk doesn't happen to every owner. Pillowballs clunk not because they are loose, broken, or worn. Pillowballs have very low gap tolerances and when they are not manufactured to specifications they clunk under load. There are many pillowball manufacturers. Many top quality suspension companies source their pillowballs from the same company that produces pillowball bearings for NASA.

I am new to the Z/G tuning scene although I have owned these two vehicles for quite some time. But I used to track and drift a highly modified 240sx a few years ago. From my experience, the price of components reflects the quality of their pillowballs.

I can be wrong though. I hope it's something as simple as an untightened lug. You've already spent a lot of money on your setup. It would suck to have to spend more on new components!!!

Last edited by tyau; 01-22-2011 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:42 PM
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i know how back pain goes, ive been in the army infantry for 6 years and have a herniated disk. everytime i get under the z i pay for it, but i cant help to work on it. seems like the pillow ball mounts seem to be the culprit from what everyone else is sayin. unfourtunatly thats the price to pay for aftermarket products. good luck i hope everything works out with the alignment.
Brian
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:17 PM
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2 collapsed discs and a crushed vertabre, I work on my car daily. Quit complaining, suck it up.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:21 PM
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wow. g/l jdm
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by tyau View Post
You have a very sweet suspension setup.

Anyway, it sounds like you are experiencing the phantom pillowball mount clunk that plagues many Stance owners. The infamous clunk doesn't happen to every owner. Pillowballs clunk not because they are loose, broken, or worn. Pillowballs have very low gap tolerances and when they are not manufactured to specifications they clunk under load. There are many pillowball manufacturers. Many top quality suspension companies source their pillowballs from the same company that produces pillowball bearings for NASA.

I am new to the Z/G tuning scene although I have owned these two vehicles for quite some time. But I used to track and drift a highly modified 240sx a few years ago. From my experience, the price of components reflects the quality of their pillowballs.

I can be wrong though. I hope it's something as simple as an untightened lug. You've already spent a lot of money on your setup. It would suck to have to spend more on new components!!!
It might have to do with coilovers. But this isn't a clunking stance owners get over a pothole or bump in the road. This is different. I'm hearing KNOCKING sounds repeatedly when I turn over 20 mph. On a flat, smooth road too. Everything looked solid, but maybe when the car is getting an alignment or the tires installed, I can take a quick look to see if there is anything loose and if I could pop off the coil as they are doing the tires and checking them out.

The pillowball mount is something on the older style Stance coilovers right? I heard they had a new design to get rid of that clunk, my coils are new and don't have the old design where it clunks, have 4,000 miles according to the seller, and had no noise whatsoever? So I'm not sure if it's automatically the coils.

If nothing works, I'm dropping by a Z shop and having a mechanic drive it to try to pinpoint the problem.
John

Originally Posted by scrantonz33 View Post
i know how back pain goes, ive been in the army infantry for 6 years and have a herniated disk. everytime i get under the z i pay for it, but i cant help to work on it. seems like the pillow ball mounts seem to be the culprit from what everyone else is sayin. unfourtunatly thats the price to pay for aftermarket products. good luck i hope everything works out with the alignment.
Brian
Yes. I hope it's not that. That would suck. The previous seller said they were in great working condition and only have 4,000 miles on them, so I would have to double and triple check before I start pointing fingers. They seemed completely solid before installing. Might be endlinks or something bumping against something or even bushings that are ripped. Again, will need a mechanic to check it.
John

Originally Posted by terrasmak View Post
2 collapsed discs and a crushed vertabre, I work on my car daily. Quit complaining, suck it up.
....Right. This isn't a dick size competition, doesn't make you "cooler" that you have back problems and work on your car. And I had spinal surgery with about 2lbs of Stainless rods and screws in my back from T9-L3. On top of that, I've had a muscle injury along my right lower back which has taken it's sweet as time to heal. I had recently hurt it more with stretches, then I worked under a car for 2 days. So I have every right to complain. Thanks for wasting my time though, appreciate it!
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Old 01-23-2011, 01:53 AM
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It probably sounds like you are having a welded differential. And it occurs until you straighten your car, Right?

It feels like both wheels are receiving the same amount of torque at the same time when the car is in a turn. Therefore, the wheel hopping and bouncing.

Sounds like a VLSD issue to me that is caused by your alignment issues. The VLSD operation depends on the resistence acted on the wheels. Changing the suspension and geometry might have impacted the resistence, therefore causing the differential to act differently than it was designed for. I could be wrong though. I haven't had a ride in your car to know what's really going on.


But then, people with the GT-Spec rear braces are also experiencing identical issues.

Last edited by tyau; 01-23-2011 at 02:17 AM.
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Old 01-23-2011, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by tyau View Post
Just read your first post again. I believe people who have installed the GT-Spec lower brace are experiencing similar, but less drastic, noise.

It probably sounds like you are having a locked differential. And it occurs until you straighten your car, Right?

It feels like both wheels are receiving the same amount of torque at the same time when the car is in a turn. Therefore, the wheel hopping and bouncing.

Nobody can really explain this, but people with a stiffened rear subframe setup on their Z or G ALWAYS experience this problem, that their VLSD suddenly acting like a 2way or a locked differential.

I don't think the suspension is hitting anything, or that anything is loose. I don't think an alignment will solve your problem. You can try changing to a thicker differential fluid. That's my reccomendation because after rereading your original post, it sounds as if the constant knocking noise at turn, the wheel hopping, and the sliding is differential related.

People with GT-Spec lower brace are experiencing similar "problems". But not as drastic.
Hmm..that's an interesting idea. It might explain the knocking in the turning and minor hopping. But it doesn't explain what clunks under hard accel or hard braking. And by clunk, I mean you can feel like there is something in the rear that has some "play" and can move around.

Also, I don't have VLSD, I have Open Diff. My car is an 07 Base. Would the differential problems you're talking about affect me?

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Old 01-23-2011, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by tyau View Post
Sounds like a VLSD issue to me that is caused by your alignment issues. The VLSD operation depends on the resistence acted on the wheels. Changing the suspension and geometry might have impacted the resistence, therefore causing the differential to act differently than it was designed for. I could be wrong though. I haven't had a ride in your car to know what's really going on.
You know, you might be right. That is probably one of the better ways to describe the cars rear end when turning. It just feels like crap. New tires and alignment are first thing. Hopefully it'll fix it. When the alignment guy takes it for a spin, I'll go with him and see if it makes the noise.

If it doesn't, I'll drive home and test over 30-35 mph with turning. But if it is still there, I'll have a look under the car and if I get a chance, have him take off the wheels and maybe even coils and look around. If nothing works, I'll swing by a local Z shop and have a mechanic take the car for a spin and put it on racks to try pinpointing the problem.

I hope it just goes away after alignment, I spent a fortune on just parts and spent 2 days trying to install. Would be super pissed to have to take them out and have a shop later install them or pay anymore on new parts.
John

Will keep thread updated Monday afternoon.

Thanks a lot for all your help tyau.
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Old 01-23-2011, 06:17 AM
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There is no way that you can change your whole suspension setup and not get an alignment done ASAP. It's a given.....otherwise you start getting crazy stuff from forum members like diff problems and all that jazz. Sort your suspension first mate.
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