stuartc323

Please you dont know me or of me, and if words on the internet hurt you, there is another 350z site that can help you find whatever you need. Grug1 is giving out bad info and I corrected her. she didnt like being corrected like most women and had a biitch fit. If you gave out bad info I would correct you too.

michaelmoon912

Im at -1.5 rear and -1.8 front and i dont see any wear on my falkens that ive have for 10k miles so far. I mean if there is any wear it is unnoticeable. Check your toe, if youve gone through 3 sets of rears that fast your toe has got to be ****ed. Im even lowered with no camber kit up front and the tires are practically brand new.. Camber is not your issue here.

Luger

It's not the words that I mind, it's the lack of coherent argument.

I'm starting to believe Grug1 is spot on with her assessment of you.

grug1

grug1

grug1

The error our friend Stuart Little has fallen into is assuming that i'm advocating reduced camber at the rear alone as a means to improve tire wear and road manners. This is just crap and not what I said.

Stuart claimed in his first post that he tried 0 degrees camber and it was tail happy... Well derrrr!

It would be obvious to anyone with half an ounce of sense that reducing camber at the rear of a vehicle while maintaining the same negative camber at the front will induce oversteer.

On the other hand reducing camber and both ends CLOSER TO ZERO BUT NOT ZERO and dialling more toe in in front and rear makes for a very well behaved road car that tracks beautifully. To do this will require aftermarket parts to allow front camber adjustability as our cars don't have this feature from factory.

TIRE WEAR: camber induced tire wear is a function of driving style. If you dial in less camber, you need to refine your driving style at the apex of a corner or you will quickly wear the outer tire edge. Conversely drive less aggressively on big negative camber and the inner edge will wear quickly. The point I make is define your cars purpose and add your preferred driving style and factor the degree of negative camber accordingly. This will depend on trial and error however EACH PERSONS IDEAL IS DIFFERENT particularly in relation to a road car.

REDUCED NEGATIVE CAMBER, ZERO TOE: tried this as an experiment and found this setup offered the worst of both worlds. Less mid corner grip and poor on road manners. Driving on a straight road the car felt less than stable.

REDUCED NEGATIVE CAMBER, TOE IN: sacrificed a moderate amount of mid corner grip however picked up a car that drove more stable than one with factory settings. This suited my purpose at the time because I was running a lot of highway miles so chasing the last ounce of mid corner grip wasn't a concern.

Anyway, here is an extract from Grassroots Motorsports Magazine that reinforces the concept further

grug1

A few days have passed now and it appears Stuart has finally gone away.

Now I would really like to get some informed opinion on what is actually happening at the dynamic level with camber and toe in our cars.

The debate so far has exclusively centred on static camber and toe values which is fine if the only purpose of our cars is to sit stationary in a McDonalds car park however what is really happening with Akermann and Toe values when driving in turns?

Reason for my curiosity is because I'm aware that Nissan took out 14 separate patents on their split link front end when designing the 350z. Now I understand part of the benefit of this design is to limit the amount of camber and toe change during suspension bump or compression phases however I strongly suspect that this design factors in greater or lesser Akermann effect and increased dynamic camber and toe beyond what is available in a normal single link front end.

Has anyone looked at modelling this or conducted say a Bundorf Analysis of different camber and toe settings at both ends of a 350z?

My interest is more in a road car environment where drivability and reasonable tire wear are the most important factors however if some of the track people have conducted modelling in this area I'd be keen if you could share your findings.

Thoughts anyone?

Luger

Hey Grug1, I wasn't aware the front end on a 350z was a new patented design. As far as i knew it was just a continuation of the 300zx.

Do you have anymore information about this?

grug1

I was hoping someone else might have an SAE paper or similar as this is all I've found so far.




Doesn't really delve into the mechanics in answering any of my questions which is a shame.

stuartc323

LOL blind leading the blind. And Grug1 your in my section of expertise so no i havent gone away i just dont care to respond to someone who has no idea what she is talking about. Either way it goes, im not here to argue about semantics and context, im here to help.

What do you guys want to know about the front suspension? I will post a couple threads depending on what you need to know.

stuartc323

The 300zx and the 350z share the same suspension style, just not the parts. Nissan redesign of the 350z's front and rear suspension provided for a 25% weight reduction in the front and a 20% weight reduction in rear to provide less unsprung weight and lower inertia for tires and wheels going over bumps. They combined this with a split lower wishbone arm on the front suspension to give the lower arms two pivot points creating a better wheel alignment with the road no matter what it was going over. These are the only differences between the two.

Luger what are you trying to do with your car?

stuartc323

I havent seen any Bundorf analysis for this car at all and i dunno if your going to find any on the net from teams using the 350z for touring car championships.

What i can tell you is that the 14 patents went into the lightening and the lower wishbone arm being split in two.

In response to the Akermann effect, I believe the suspension does factor in a wider range of Akermann effect values, and provides for better dynamic camber and toe changes. The splitting of the lower wishbone arm gave the bottom half of the suspension dual pivot points on both sides, providing a wider range of motion for the front suspension parts, which is the cause for the greater Akermann effect, whereas in a normal two arm wishbone suspension, the lower arm is going to have to be able to pivot a whole lot farther and be able to pivot the same angles to acheive the same handling characteristics as the split lower arm suspension on the 350z. I guess they needed a suspension that provided greater cornering force and higher slip angles for this car, maybe because of the increased weight of the engine.

grug1

^^^^this is nothing but a half educated guess. Really? Who would have thought sports car designers and engineers would be chasing greater cornering force

"Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools speak because they have to say something" Plato

Plenty of posts and views but nothing that comes close to answering the questions. Unless someone else other than this Stuart character wades in with an informed opinion I'm not even going to bother responding anymore.

stuartc323

Never said it was an expert opinion, but its an opinion nonetheless of why they designed the suspension. The only way you will answer these questions is test it yourself, which i definitely know you dont have the knowhow or resources to do such a thing. And coming here people will read this thread and understand your a retard, a couple of other members have said so. Your continous attack of me after i tried to help you shows me you are nothing more than a child who knows nothing about cars other than the google searches you run, move on, put some pink shiit on your Z and finish that psych major, you couldnt ever beat me on a track so its all good.

grug1

A couple of members? Add delusional as well as sufferers a persecution complex.

Come one let's be honest, you're not interested in helping anyone unless its to try and demonstrate how clever you are. In a moment of lucidity you might realise you are not being attacked because of the insight you bring to this topic. Don't you think there is something pathetic in a man acting hurt like a little b*i*t*c*h trying to get sympathy from other (mostly) men on a car forum?

As I've stated before, anything you ever say about car setup and suspension tuning is regurgitated info gleaned from other members or googled off the net.

Credibility much

stuartc323

LOL please you dont know me or anyone i have helped on the forum, the only one biitching is you, but i guess since your a girl thats expected, like i said move on, your worried about tire wear on a sports car, sounds like you cant afford the maintenance.

driftsucky

Wow. This seems to have escalated to the level of pure ****ery. Stuart, I think grug has a crush on you. I can't think of any reason why she'd continue to illicit a response from you only to shoot it down. But, not my fight to fight. So, I'm just gonna stay out of it. lol. Good luck man.

grug1

How about this for a reason. This site WAS a great repository of information from members sharing their experiences with different set ups and components.

Problem is all the info is HISTORIC and will remain historic with nothing new based on idiots like our friend Stuart and others like him who are quick to flame and throw around insults when the orthodoxy is challenged.

Reality is this site has fast become a joke if you listen to the reputation it has earned on other enthusiast forums. Since this thread started I took the liberty of linking it to another car forum I've contributed to over the years to get other car enthusiasts views on if this behaviour is normal. Predictably, given the other site is more technically oriented and not car or model specific, the consensus view is this thread just reinforces the mentality of the stereotypical 350z owner. What I didn't predict however is how Stuart would be elevated to cult status and become an endless source of entertainment on that forum albeit for all the wrong reasons. There is even a few members from Vegas who think they may have seen him around.

Phenom

iTrader: (4)

Cmon buddy, you're arguing with a woman here. You know women, you're better off trying to hammer in a nail with a marshmellow than try to reason with them. Just let her think she's got it all figured out (they think this every time anyway) and don't waste your time. She'll go back to instagram or her vampire books soon enough.

stuartc323

Yeah thats why i am just leaving it alone from now on, its futile, like arguing with a brick wall.