Z1 Brake Upgrade vs. 14" Akebono (BREMBOS STAY OUT)
11-18-2013, 10:08 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Z1 Brake Upgrade vs. 14" Akebono (BREMBOS STAY OUT)
Z1 brake upgrade:
http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=2240
14" Akebono:
http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=4626
between the 2 options, which one would perform better?
I don't think there are any solid review for the Z1 upgrade so I have 0 idea how it performs. On the other hand, there are some mixed reviews for the Akebono where the con is the weight.
At the moment, I am leaning towards the Akebono for the look as, again, I have no idea how great the performance is for the Z1 upgrade. But I must admit the upgrade kit is winning in the price department.
Judging from Performance, Price, and Look, they both won a seat in one category. Now I need someone acknowledgeable to help me settle the performance aspect. Anyone?
And yes, Brembo isn't an option in this question.
http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=2240
14" Akebono:
http://www.z1motorsports.com/350_g35...oducts_id=4626
between the 2 options, which one would perform better?
I don't think there are any solid review for the Z1 upgrade so I have 0 idea how it performs. On the other hand, there are some mixed reviews for the Akebono where the con is the weight.
At the moment, I am leaning towards the Akebono for the look as, again, I have no idea how great the performance is for the Z1 upgrade. But I must admit the upgrade kit is winning in the price department.
Judging from Performance, Price, and Look, they both won a seat in one category. Now I need someone acknowledgeable to help me settle the performance aspect. Anyone?
And yes, Brembo isn't an option in this question.
11-18-2013, 10:30 AM
#3
New Member
Thread Starter
but if that's the case, I guess I will go with the Akebono for sure this coming Black Friday then.
11-18-2013, 10:43 AM
#5
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Thread Starter
and yup, I have plan to include those SS lines in the options. Thanks for the reminder!
11-23-2013, 10:07 AM
#6
The biggest negative I can think of with the Akebono kit is not the weight, but the decel hole that results whenever the ABS is activated.
The ABS computer relies on a known P-T value to calculate how much pressure to bleed off the system when it detects a wheel locking. P-T value is the amount of brake torque generated for each psi of hydraulic pressure. The Akebono calipers increase this value significantly over a track or 03-05 system, i.e they generate much more brake torque per psi than stock brakes do. This is why they feel like they "bite" harder. If Nissan didn't reprogram the later systems for the increased caliper area, it will negatively affect those cars as well.
What happens is that when the ABS ECU detects a wheel with greater deceleration than the others, it will try to bleed off an amount of pressure based on the original P-T value of the system to adjust the deceleration rate of the locking wheel to be equal to the deceleration rates of the others. This change in pressure with the Akebono brakes will result in a LARGER decrease in brake torque than the computer intends, and it will feel like the ABS just kicked your foot off the brake pedal. This is called a "decel hole."
This is a potential safety issue that I see with the Akebono setup. The car will stop significantly faster with the ABS disabled, in this case. The BBK I'm working on keeps the P-T value within 0.9% of stock, much like the Stoptech kits do. There's a white paper on StopTech's website about this phenomenon, and it's worth reading for ANYONE who is upgrading the factory system.
http://www.centricparts.com/files/Wh...ake%20Kits.pdf
The ABS computer relies on a known P-T value to calculate how much pressure to bleed off the system when it detects a wheel locking. P-T value is the amount of brake torque generated for each psi of hydraulic pressure. The Akebono calipers increase this value significantly over a track or 03-05 system, i.e they generate much more brake torque per psi than stock brakes do. This is why they feel like they "bite" harder. If Nissan didn't reprogram the later systems for the increased caliper area, it will negatively affect those cars as well.
What happens is that when the ABS ECU detects a wheel with greater deceleration than the others, it will try to bleed off an amount of pressure based on the original P-T value of the system to adjust the deceleration rate of the locking wheel to be equal to the deceleration rates of the others. This change in pressure with the Akebono brakes will result in a LARGER decrease in brake torque than the computer intends, and it will feel like the ABS just kicked your foot off the brake pedal. This is called a "decel hole."
This is a potential safety issue that I see with the Akebono setup. The car will stop significantly faster with the ABS disabled, in this case. The BBK I'm working on keeps the P-T value within 0.9% of stock, much like the Stoptech kits do. There's a white paper on StopTech's website about this phenomenon, and it's worth reading for ANYONE who is upgrading the factory system.
http://www.centricparts.com/files/Wh...ake%20Kits.pdf
Last edited by kilogram; 11-23-2013 at 10:14 AM.
11-23-2013, 11:12 AM
#7
The biggest negative I can think of with the Akebono kit is not the weight, but the decel hole that results whenever the ABS is activated.
The ABS computer relies on a known P-T value to calculate how much pressure to bleed off the system when it detects a wheel locking. P-T value is the amount of brake torque generated for each psi of hydraulic pressure. The Akebono calipers increase this value significantly over a track or 03-05 system, i.e they generate much more brake torque per psi than stock brakes do. This is why they feel like they "bite" harder. If Nissan didn't reprogram the later systems for the increased caliper area, it will negatively affect those cars as well.
What happens is that when the ABS ECU detects a wheel with greater deceleration than the others, it will try to bleed off an amount of pressure based on the original P-T value of the system to adjust the deceleration rate of the locking wheel to be equal to the deceleration rates of the others. This change in pressure with the Akebono brakes will result in a LARGER decrease in brake torque than the computer intends, and it will feel like the ABS just kicked your foot off the brake pedal. This is called a "decel hole."
This is a potential safety issue that I see with the Akebono setup. The car will stop significantly faster with the ABS disabled, in this case. The BBK I'm working on keeps the P-T value within 0.9% of stock, much like the Stoptech kits do. There's a white paper on StopTech's website about this phenomenon, and it's worth reading for ANYONE who is upgrading the factory system.
http://www.centricparts.com/files/Wh...ake%20Kits.pdf
The ABS computer relies on a known P-T value to calculate how much pressure to bleed off the system when it detects a wheel locking. P-T value is the amount of brake torque generated for each psi of hydraulic pressure. The Akebono calipers increase this value significantly over a track or 03-05 system, i.e they generate much more brake torque per psi than stock brakes do. This is why they feel like they "bite" harder. If Nissan didn't reprogram the later systems for the increased caliper area, it will negatively affect those cars as well.
What happens is that when the ABS ECU detects a wheel with greater deceleration than the others, it will try to bleed off an amount of pressure based on the original P-T value of the system to adjust the deceleration rate of the locking wheel to be equal to the deceleration rates of the others. This change in pressure with the Akebono brakes will result in a LARGER decrease in brake torque than the computer intends, and it will feel like the ABS just kicked your foot off the brake pedal. This is called a "decel hole."
This is a potential safety issue that I see with the Akebono setup. The car will stop significantly faster with the ABS disabled, in this case. The BBK I'm working on keeps the P-T value within 0.9% of stock, much like the Stoptech kits do. There's a white paper on StopTech's website about this phenomenon, and it's worth reading for ANYONE who is upgrading the factory system.
http://www.centricparts.com/files/Wh...ake%20Kits.pdf
Sounds like yet another reason to find and install a set of OEM Brembos, along with lower cost, lighter weight, and less chance of interference with aftermarket wheels.
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11-26-2013, 05:27 AM
#8
New Member
Thread Starter
Tho, after reading the article, I'm curious about what's the P-T and P-V value for stock non-brembo and for the akebono. Time to google :/
11-26-2013, 05:52 AM
#10
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Thread Starter
it's a PITA to go through all the PT cruiser link on google tho.
11-26-2013, 05:55 AM
#11
I'm not so sure about the "lower cost", akebono and brembo cost about the same used (at least from what I've seen). And I won't be considering aftermarket wheels so that doesn't matter to me.
Tho, after reading the article, I'm curious about what's the P-T and P-V value for stock non-brembo and for the akebono. Time to google :/
Tho, after reading the article, I'm curious about what's the P-T and P-V value for stock non-brembo and for the akebono. Time to google :/
11-26-2013, 06:00 AM
#13
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11-26-2013, 06:11 AM
#15
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Thread Starter
yup, but i have to redo the dust shield cutting tho... it was done pretty poorly since I was in a hurry to get back to home (i picked the set up 3 and a half hours away from home and got it done there while i was at it...)
but back to the article, anyone has any luck finding those values? those PT cruisers are annoying....
but back to the article, anyone has any luck finding those values? those PT cruisers are annoying....
11-26-2013, 06:15 AM
#17
Yeah, I hate sloppy mods, even if I'm the only one who will ever see it. I bought a set of OEM Brembo dust shields (such as for a Nismo or GT model) for the rear Brembos, just because I didn't want hacked-up shields. Lot's of extra work, though, and ~$120 in extra parts.
11-26-2013, 07:36 AM
#18
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Thread Starter
I am planning to cut it into a better shape than they are now in, and then smooth out the edges so they won't cut anything if anything happens
11-26-2013, 10:51 AM
#19
I have on 06 base model. I basically put together my own "Z1 Upgrade Kit" .. whereby I replaced my rotors with PowerSlot slotted rotors, Hawk HPS pads and ran Motul 5.1 fluid. The performance increase was neglible and it didn't look all the much better.
I then picked up a used set of Akebono's off the marketplace and these things rock. I'm running AMS Slotted rotors, Centric Posi-Quiet Pads (original owner bought the Z1 kit), Stoptech SS lines, Motul 5.1 fluid. The previous owner PC'ed them a metallic orange and I added the Akebono decal + clear coat. They look amazing and perform amazing. I do track my car and after ~20mins on the track I did not experience any brake fade or brake issues, my tires (Hankook RS3) started getting greasy before the brakes had any drop in performance. Even though I've had no problems, I plan on buying a second set of pads to swap in for track days next season.
I run them under OEM 06 wheels in the winter and 18inch RPF1's in the summer.
About the dust shield... Use an angle grinder to cut it away where required, clean up the edes, call it a day.
I then picked up a used set of Akebono's off the marketplace and these things rock. I'm running AMS Slotted rotors, Centric Posi-Quiet Pads (original owner bought the Z1 kit), Stoptech SS lines, Motul 5.1 fluid. The previous owner PC'ed them a metallic orange and I added the Akebono decal + clear coat. They look amazing and perform amazing. I do track my car and after ~20mins on the track I did not experience any brake fade or brake issues, my tires (Hankook RS3) started getting greasy before the brakes had any drop in performance. Even though I've had no problems, I plan on buying a second set of pads to swap in for track days next season.
I run them under OEM 06 wheels in the winter and 18inch RPF1's in the summer.
About the dust shield... Use an angle grinder to cut it away where required, clean up the edes, call it a day.
Last edited by 350ZZJoe; 11-26-2013 at 10:54 AM.
11-26-2013, 11:27 AM
#20
New Member
Thread Starter
I have on 06 base model. I basically put together my own "Z1 Upgrade Kit" .. whereby I replaced my rotors with PowerSlot slotted rotors, Hawk HPS pads and ran Motul 5.1 fluid. The performance increase was neglible and it didn't look all the much better.
I then picked up a used set of Akebono's off the marketplace and these things rock. I'm running AMS Slotted rotors, Centric Posi-Quiet Pads (original owner bought the Z1 kit), Stoptech SS lines, Motul 5.1 fluid. The previous owner PC'ed them a metallic orange and I added the Akebono decal + clear coat. They look amazing and perform amazing. I do track my car and after ~20mins on the track I did not experience any brake fade or brake issues, my tires (Hankook RS3) started getting greasy before the brakes had any drop in performance. Even though I've had no problems, I plan on buying a second set of pads to swap in for track days next season.
I run them under OEM 06 wheels in the winter and 18inch RPF1's in the summer.
About the dust shield... Use an angle grinder to cut it away where required, clean up the edes, call it a day.
I then picked up a used set of Akebono's off the marketplace and these things rock. I'm running AMS Slotted rotors, Centric Posi-Quiet Pads (original owner bought the Z1 kit), Stoptech SS lines, Motul 5.1 fluid. The previous owner PC'ed them a metallic orange and I added the Akebono decal + clear coat. They look amazing and perform amazing. I do track my car and after ~20mins on the track I did not experience any brake fade or brake issues, my tires (Hankook RS3) started getting greasy before the brakes had any drop in performance. Even though I've had no problems, I plan on buying a second set of pads to swap in for track days next season.
I run them under OEM 06 wheels in the winter and 18inch RPF1's in the summer.
About the dust shield... Use an angle grinder to cut it away where required, clean up the edes, call it a day.
speaking of which, i also need to change the brake fluid since i made the purchase pretty last minutes and didn't get in time to other the proper ones :/
i'm planning to redo the dust shield this thursday, i hope my friend's grinder is good enough
